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Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 13:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Imagine a module you could fit on your ship that gives a near 100% protection in one direction of the ship. I'm thinking some sort of module that you load with a script to have it directed either: * front * rear * left * right * up * down
So depending on which script you load your ship will have near invulnerability to damage from that direction.
I think this could provide some quite interesting fights, especially between larger ships, where they can establish perimeters in certain directions which would require some smart FCing to circumvent. * Fights would become more tactical if a feature like this was added, with positioning of ones fleet much more important than today. Fast maneuverable ships will also be more important in large ship fights as the large ships can't turn around to face threats like that. * Traps can be set where the enemy fleet is attacked from two directions preventing them to shield themselves from both. * Fights won't just deteriorate into 100 ships one-shotting one ship at a time, because that ship will probably have it's damage protection in that direction. Instead the fleet will have to be divided in several smaller groups that try to dogfight into a better position than the enemy. It will be more important with different squads and a more distributed fleet leadership. Instead of the FC giving orders to the entire fleet they only give it to the wing leaders and they to the squad leaders. * Ships that require to get to close range to inflict damage (read gallente) can equip such a module in a front direction to be able to close in on the target without taking damage.
From a technical standpoint I think something like this would be possible to implement on the server without too much complications. The angle of the ships and the relative position of the ships is known to the server and it can therefore easily calculate which quadrant takes the damage for each shot. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
62
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
WTF? Scripted shield with 100% immunity?
Such imba stuff will never get into the game. Now thanks for wasting my time to read your stupid proposal. |
Daeva Teresa
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
it would change the game dramaticaly. And yes I would love to see it. Only problem I see in 1 on 1 figths. Maybe if you could change it only once every 30s or so. +1 |
Velicitia
Open Designs
678
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
While interesting ... it'll (probably) need some ugly hax in places that CCP would rather not touch again, ever. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
youd have to have a capacitor hit with every shot received. that way its like startrek where the focus the shields to the front, but after soo many hits they lose power and they cant maintain it.
I support ideas to make eve more complex, but there has to be limits, cant have god mode
Yes, I complain about things I don't like. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
it just occured to me that this type of feature would be solved by ramming blobs together so ships would be on all sides. there would be no more long range combat. RAM the lines and your in. CQC would become king
Yes, I complain about things I don't like. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 13:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daeva Teresa wrote:it would change the game dramaticaly. And yes I would love to see it. Only problem I see in 1 on 1 figths. Maybe if you could change it only once every 30s or so. +1 Yes it shouldn't be possible to change the script very often, like you say every 30 seconds or perhaps as much as every 5 minutes. Just let the module have a cycle time that is that long. Also you'd have to make sure one ship can't fit more than one or possibly two at the same time (a ship fitting six would be invulnerable and that would obviously not be a good thing). |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
148
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
since this is an idea going far beyond of what eve is now and how its working, a pointless stupid piece of a sh*t thread! |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 14:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:since this is an idea going far beyond of what eve is now and how its working, a pointless stupid piece of a sh*t thread! One can think grand or one can think small, and it's pretty obvious how you think. It's lucky thinkers like Aristotle and Einstein didn't have the EVE features & ideas forum to visit or they would have killed themselves. "E = mc^2?" "Noob! it totally doesn't work like that!" "You realize how many teaching books we would have to rewrite?" "Phail!" "I build card houses for a living and hardly graduated from play-school, but I can with 100% certainty say that the server can't handle those computations!" "Physics is dying!" "This is the worst thread ever"
Besides mathematically it's not complicated. All the data is there and can be used if needed.
Given it's not as simple as giving an afterburner +10% speed, but usually you can't get great reward without some effort. |
Tekashi Kovacs
Golfclap Inc
10
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Posted - 2012.02.27 14:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
It would greatly improve games combat, thats for sure.
Bad side of this is that it would require to implement some real collision detection and rewriting half of the engine probably. :) |
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Di Mulle
41
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Posted - 2012.02.27 14:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Daedalus II wrote:Besides mathematically it's not complicated. All the data is there and can be used if needed.
Given it's not as simple as giving an afterburner +10% speed, but usually you can't get great reward without some effort.
Math is not so complicated, but it is in the books. Not in EVE. Ships in EVE - so far - are uniform spheres without left, right, front, back, top, bottom whatsoever.
CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 14:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:It would greatly improve games combat, thats for sure.
Bad side of this is that it would require to implement some real collision detection and rewriting half of the engine probably. :) No the good thing is that you don't have to do that
Already now the server knows the position of the ship getting shot at and the ship shooting at it. It also knows the heading of the ships. Using this information and some vector algebra it's easy to figure out which of the six quadrants the attacking ship will hit on the other ship. We don't take into consideration other ships or objects that might be in the way, only the attacker and the attacked ship.
So no ray tracing or anything expensive and advanced like that. Just some simple vector algebra using values that are already available. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 14:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Di Mulle wrote:Daedalus II wrote:Besides mathematically it's not complicated. All the data is there and can be used if needed.
Given it's not as simple as giving an afterburner +10% speed, but usually you can't get great reward without some effort. Math is not so complicated, but it is in the books. Not in EVE. Ships in EVE - so far - are uniform spheres without left, right, front, back, top, bottom whatsoever. Yes you are 100% right, however, the ships when moving have a movement vector, this vector is essentially the heading. Admittedly it's indeterminate when standing still, but that shouldn't be a major hurdle to fix. |
leviticus ander
The Scope Gallente Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 18:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Daedalus II wrote:Di Mulle wrote:Daedalus II wrote:Besides mathematically it's not complicated. All the data is there and can be used if needed.
Given it's not as simple as giving an afterburner +10% speed, but usually you can't get great reward without some effort. Math is not so complicated, but it is in the books. Not in EVE. Ships in EVE - so far - are uniform spheres without left, right, front, back, top, bottom whatsoever. Yes you are 100% right, however, the ships when moving have a movement vector, this vector is essentially the heading. Admittedly it's indeterminate when standing still, but that shouldn't be a major hurdle to fix. ya, it is. they are still indeterminate spheres. you've probably seen a ship get bounced sideways, or enter warp backwards/upwards/downwords/(any-other-direction)wards. that's because the directions we see are pretty much entirely on client side and direction is based off of where the user has clicked. during the turning circle they would have very strange orientations and would probably just cause issues. also, the only group that would really find this useful is gallente and this would only really help ships like the brutix, ishtar, and hyperion as they are the only ships that can effectively field a shield tank. either that or the caldari would become massively OP with their range-less damage from missiles, ultra omni-tanks, and with this perfect closing methods for blaster range. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
142
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 19:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't see this working well, because of the limited control we have over our ships attitude. When it decides to roll, spin, level off, etc, are all predictable, but not directly controllable, and would make this mechanics a royal PITA to use properly. Improve ship piloting first, then get on this one. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1112
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Current game mechanics won't allow for 100% immunity so that just isn't going to happen. No matter how many hardeners you run you will never get to 100%. I sort of like the idea though. A module that you can use scripts in to boost your resists in a specific direction is not a bad idea in itself. That might take a bit of coding to figure out though. Not sure if it would be all that easy to do and might require quite a bit of change to the current mechanics.
Me thinks you just got back from playing Star Trek Online. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Tidurious
The Dirty Rejects Scelus Sceleris.
106
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
If this were an FPS, or at least a game with some limited ability to control the ship from the ship POV, than this *might* work, although I don't see it working too well. I don't think that this would be very usable without being exploited in EVE, so have to say pass on this one. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Me thinks you just got back from playing Star Trek Online.
You'd think so, but no, I have never even played it ;) I've heard about the shields though and that they work roughly like this. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
1033
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aside from the fact that this would require a MAJOR change to the game engine, you just found the perfect way to completely negate sniping and 1v1 combat. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Aside from the fact that this would require a MAJOR change to the game engine, you just found the perfect way to completely negate sniping and 1v1 combat. Sniping will only be negated if the FC is an idiot and only attack from one side. He can split up forces and attack from two sides. 1v1 combat is not affected at all, you can't switch the direction of the module fast enough to make any use of it. |
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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
127
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 02:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Daedalus II wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Aside from the fact that this would require a MAJOR change to the game engine, you just found the perfect way to completely negate sniping and 1v1 combat. Sniping will only be negated if the FC is an idiot and only attack from one side. He can split up forces and attack from two sides. 1v1 combat is not affected at all, you can't switch the direction of the module fast enough to make any use of it. so, what your trying to do is encourage people to just throw as many ships as possible intot he fight in hopes of possibly surrounding the opponent so they cannot use their tanks? so basically we shuld just remove logistics from the game along with this, because that would make logistics become useless.
also, this idea is terrible, not only ebcause only about half the ships in the game can even USE shields, but because "directed" anything is a ******** mechanic, all it would do is make the "orbit" cammand a suicidal action, and all pvp will become balsters on approach shooting eahcother in the front shield that is OMG "INVULNERABLE"
in cinclusion, terrible idea, and i didnt even haev to get into how they woudl ahev to COMPLETELY dismantle the eve combat/control engine to reimplement some sort of wasd movement (which the server at 1 ticks CANNOT HANDLE much less the lag it would also cause) JUST so you can enter every battle "invulnerable"
please, think REALLY ahrd about practical implications of your proposals before posting them, thx. |
Xiles Eilop
Southern Cross Trilogy Flying Dangerous
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 07:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1 requiring the implementation of tactics that trump numbers will always get my vote... to be honest it should be limited to only 1 module per ship so you can only protect one side of your ship. No need for too much help. |
Bent Barrel
30
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Posted - 2012.02.28 07:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
requires sooooo many changes to the game that this will never be implemented. it sounds cool on paper :-)
also the math is not simple in the scale that EVE works on. imagine a 200vs200 fleet fight and the server having to calculate all vs all positions and orientations on each tick and shot ...
why do you think EVE has no LoS mechanic ? |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
89
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 08:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: so, what your trying to do is encourage people to just throw as many ships as possible intot he fight in hopes of possibly surrounding the opponent so they cannot use their tanks? so basically we shuld just remove logistics from the game along with this, because that would make logistics become useless.
Quite the opposite, a smaller, better positioned fleet would win over a larger worse positioned fleet every time. If you feel you have to drench your opponents in ships you're doing it wrong.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: also, this idea is terrible, not only ebcause only about half the ships in the game can even USE shields,
Where have I ever said this would only be shields?
Nariya Kentaya wrote:but because "directed" anything is a ******** mechanic, all it would do is make the "orbit" cammand a suicidal action, and all pvp will become balsters on approach shooting eahcother in the front shield that is OMG "INVULNERABLE"
Yes close range ships will have a hand up in these fights, compared to today when they will be shot before they even get in range. Orbiting a ship will essentially negate the protection, both on the orbiting ship and on the ship being orbited, a fair trade in my opinion.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: in cinclusion, terrible idea, and i didnt even haev to get into how they woudl ahev to COMPLETELY dismantle the eve combat/control engine to reimplement some sort of wasd movement (which the server at 1 ticks CANNOT HANDLE much less the lag it would also cause) JUST so you can enter every battle "invulnerable"
wasd is definitely not necessary, possibly some extra mechanic for more fine-adjustment of ship heading when standing still.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: please, think REALLY ahrd about practical implications of your proposals before posting them, thx.
I have thought, have you?
|
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
89
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 08:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:requires sooooo many changes to the game that this will never be implemented. it sounds cool on paper :-)
also the math is not simple in the scale that EVE works on. imagine a 200vs200 fleet fight and the server having to calculate all vs all positions and orientations on each tick and shot ...
why do you think EVE has no LoS mechanic ? Well you already have all the positions and orientations (on moving ships at least) at each tick. All you have to do are some minor calculations using those values. This is much simpler to do that LoS. |
Xiles Eilop
Southern Cross Trilogy Flying Dangerous
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 08:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
you kidding me, this will only be real effective at long ranges or when your burning at people, this will really help combat against kite fleets and really helps out gallente who really love to charge into the fight |
Di Mulle
41
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 14:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:requires sooooo many changes to the game that this will never be implemented. it sounds cool on paper :-)
also the math is not simple in the scale that EVE works on. imagine a 200vs200 fleet fight and the server having to calculate all vs all positions and orientations on each tick and shot ...
why do you think EVE has no LoS mechanic ?
Tbh, LOS has way more serious problems. Here we don't have a square progression. CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
136
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 16:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Daedalus II wrote:Imagine a module you could fit on your ship that gives a near 100% protection in one direction of the ship. I'm thinking some sort of module that you load with a script to have it directed either: * front * rear * left * right * up * down
So depending on which script you load your ship will have near invulnerability to damage from that direction.
I think this could provide some quite interesting fights, especially between larger ships, where they can establish perimeters in certain directions which would require some smart FCing to circumvent. * Fights would become more tactical if a feature like this was added, with positioning of ones fleet much more important than today. Fast maneuverable ships will also be more important in large ship fights as the large ships can't turn around to face threats like that. * Traps can be set where the enemy fleet is attacked from two directions preventing them to shield themselves from both. * Fights won't just deteriorate into 100 ships one-shotting one ship at a time, because that ship will probably have it's damage protection in that direction. Instead the fleet will have to be divided in several smaller groups that try to dogfight into a better position than the enemy. It will be more important with different squads and a more distributed fleet leadership. Instead of the FC giving orders to the entire fleet they only give it to the wing leaders and they to the squad leaders. * Ships that require to get to close range to inflict damage (read gallente) can equip such a module in a front direction to be able to close in on the target without taking damage.
From a technical standpoint I think something like this would be possible to implement on the server without too much complications. The angle of the ships and the relative position of the ships is known to the server and it can therefore easily calculate which quadrant takes the damage for each shot.
Woudln't work in EVE because you don't have as fine control over flight, would work in XWing vs Tie Fighter :) |
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