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Lioun Warga
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:02:00 -
[1]
I was discussing the whole macro mining problem with to of my friends both economist.
The Base of this whole idea is to make it allot more difficult to be a macro miner, and using the marked effects in doing so.
The whole problem as they saw it was that there was this never ending resource as the asteroids represent. If there only was a certain amount of resources to be harvested then the problem would quickly solve it self. The Macro miners would mine it all and soon they wouldn't have anything to mine. They couldn't make any money...and they would go out of business.
The problem with this solution is that in the eve universe there also is a loss of resources. Unlike the real world where material is "changing forms", and can be recycled. In Eve it is just plane lost. For example, when a spaceship is blown up, or ammo is used. The resources made to use these items are just gone, and cant be used in another creation.
As i see it.. a solution to this problem is if CCP made some kind of monitoring program. That always kept the absolute number Of resources relative equal. This total should reflect everything there is in eve. That is both the mineral there is in the asteroids and the minerals that is used in items. Every time an item is lost then there is less than this total specifies . Then resources are put in an asteroid free to be harvested again.
There is one problem width having this max thou. That is another thing that in EVE is quite different from the real world. The players. Every time a player enters Eve he is going to use some resources to play. He needs ships,ammo and other items. So in short, the more players the more resources are needed. The "older" a charter becomes the more resources he will need. When he byes his first Battlecruser, then he is using quite a lot more resources than the beginning player flying in his frigate. But this could be adjusted by looking at an "average player profile" and making some kind of formula that calculates how much the average player is using relative to his "age" in EVE.
To further complicate things there is also the problem with the Player Owned Structures or POS. They also need resources and every time one is created then there has to be resources to make it. This should also be reflected in the calculation of the total number of available resources .
How would this affect the world of EVE, and the players in it.
Well... Some of you miners will probably think that this solution will completely empty certain regions of space from ore. And yes i agree with you, i probably would. What would happen next? The miners (both the player miners and the Macro miners) would have to move to find other places to mine. Because of the tremendous amount of resources a Macro miner can get there will be a transition period where there will be a lot more resources harvested than there is "lost". And over a period it will be more and more difficult to find asteroids to mine. This will make it more difficult for the macro miners, as they just cant find a asteroid belt and hit "mine". They are forced to travel and look more, and there income will be decreased. At some point all this will reach a level. Be course the more the Macro miners mine, the more difficult they will make it for themselves. And in the end they will be destroying the basis of there own business.
And yes this will all so make it more difficult for the "normal" player miner for a period.
Maybe this is not the final solution to combat macro mining, but i think its a big step in that direction.
My 2 cents...
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Zartach Tzarszh
Minmatar The Royal Engineers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Zartach Tzarszh on 12/04/2008 14:15:35 The issue with farmers is however deeper than mining ore.
They run NPC contract missions, they rathunt in 0.0, they run missions all with a real human controlling multiple accounts on ships that can be set up to afk these things. The real issue will always be the Real Money Trade and the people buying said isk from these persons. If theres no demand there is no reason to farm.
Saying that, not all farmers sell iskies for RL money ofc.
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Puria Warga
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Posted - 2008.04.13 07:28:00 -
[3]
yea.. i know that there is more aspects to the problem. In this part i was only looking at the mining bit.
But do think it could be a way to a solution.
The other problems of the isk sellers also have to be adressed no doubt about that.
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BlondieBC
Minmatar Ardent Industrial Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.13 11:44:00 -
[4]
Isk selling is like any other real life vice. You can discourage it, but never stop it. Much like trying to eliminate illegal drugs from a large city. How many policeman do you want to pay for.
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NightKhaos
Gallente Khaos Wielders
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Posted - 2008.04.13 11:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: BlondieBC Isk selling is like any other real life vice. You can discourage it, but never stop it. Much like trying to eliminate illegal drugs from a large city. How many policeman do you want to pay for.
The problem is not everyone calls 999 when they see an illegal drug trade. Just like not everyone posts a Petition when they see an ISK spammer. Player owned stargates. Dragger Ships |
Aktivistka
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:30:00 -
[6]
Everybody forgot some things,
First, U said, U will decrease the ammounts of ore in asteroid. U will hurt not only the bot miners, but real people that are playing as miners. I personally feel there will be some disappointment in mining chars ((
Also why I hate bots so much, because there are much more lags in system. U feel it pretty nice on mission when 30 bot miners log in the game abd start mining. This is a main thing why we are against them.
So I suggest that players do something themselves against them. Just make some trial accounts and start shooting them in belts with their eggs... Maybe this will be a nice lesson foe macro-bot users. If CCP doesnt want to do anything against them, it gives a players good choice of creating some trial accounts for the purpose of bot killing. 1 trial catalyst can easily handle a retreiver before the Concord arrives, which is sweet))))The second destroyer is for the egg. 2-3 Catalysts can kill Mackinawa 5-6 Destroyers can kill a hulk
With insurance U dont lose much, but U eradicate bots and get nice items and t2 salvage if U are lucky
I am not telling to kill all miners, only those who are macro-bot users.
Wanna do something right, dont wait for anyone do it for U. Wanna clean the bot pleague-eleminate them themselves
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Opertone
Caldari Simtech Productions
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:31:00 -
[7]
i am recruiting gank squads for miner killing, mmm tech 2 mining lasers
stop macro miners, they make my mining not profitable
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Freya Selene
Delucian Defence Initiative The Church.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 18:49:00 -
[8]
Remove the ability to macro it.
Remove static belts. Create dymanic belts. Have belts flood in space so bookmarks no longer work. Create non-macroable option to find these flooding belts.
This costs the miner more work to mine. Less income compared to other stuff. Therefor increase yield amount from belt, or increased mineral yield out of ore.
Just an idee tho...
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Aktivistka
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:23:00 -
[9]
Wanna know the funny part?? The new patch is likely support bot-script miners. Not long ago they launched a patch that cut salvage by at least 25% now they cut it more than a half))) And I dont see admins mentioned it in patch info))
So we could earn nice money with agent running and salvaging our missions. Now U will get much less money, so ppl wil turn to isk-bot-script sellers to buy isks from them))) Wanted to do something nice, but screwed up a bit(
What I C now is that the price of rigs will fly up pretty soon, cause it is much harder to get salvage now
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Sire Magnus
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Opertone i am recruiting gank squads for miner killing, mmm tech 2 mining lasers
stop macro miners, they make my mining not profitable
There are alot of players willing to help clean out the macro miners .. the problem is that they hide in NPC corps which makes the only solution suicide attackes ...
If players were forced out of NPC corps after the first three months or so, then by the time they were macro mining they could be dec'd and kept in check by the player community.
Small time thieves and pirates would also be made accountable to their public if all players were eventually available to be dec'd.
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Trestina Resheen
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Posted - 2008.04.15 21:37:00 -
[11]
Interesting to see this at the top of the discussion list. I just posted to the cargo ship thread about the fact that CCP will not release a cargo ship until macro miners are stopped. Heres my thoughts on how to stop marco mining.
The reason why macro mining is easy is because mining is an extremely boring and low user input task in EVE. If CCP added a mini game to mining that required enough attention and was also fun, it would be a lot harder for human macro miners to manage more than 2 accounts while mining and would cause AFK macro mining to fail completely. This mini game would have to be well done of course so it doesn't annoy the heck out of the real miners and doesn't appear to be an obvious ploy to stop the macro miners. But I think its about time that we don't "shoot" rocks with lasers.
Imagine mining in our solar systems asteroid belt. How would it work? What would a real miner do and how would that change given the imaginary technology that exists in the EVE Universe?
I think It would be cool if you could actually drill holes into rocks and then see the pulverized material. The material could be selected by the cursor but not appear in the overview. This way the macro program would not know where to click to collect the ore dust. As more bigger holes appear in the roids, maybe you could fly into the roid itself and be able to perform a new mining task. This may not be the best way but I think the idea of making mining a complex game will make it a lot more difficult to write mining macro programs.
Anyone think there is some promise in this idea? I'd be interested in hearing further mining mini game ideas!
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