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Commander Criton
Gallente
K.I.S.A.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 14:33:00 -
[61]
In an ideal world everything would work fine, there would be no killing, no diseases, no poor and world peace. The fact is eve's code is not perfect I mean come on last i heard the UI was all produced using direct 3d which is a system hog right there  But im sure CCP know the problems but are trying to fix them with the resources they have without having to shut the game down for an over haul, they have been applying patch's here and there to improve performance lets hope they keep that up and maybe one day the lag will be in the past.
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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 14:59:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Robdon
Bad Coding.
Jugging by the amount of bugs and CCPs inability to fix them in any kind of quick manner, I would say that the state of the code must be appalling.
I've worked with computing for many many years, and most coders donĘt have a clue about performance, or even consider it.
You have to have a couple of guys who dedicate themselves to this area and review / analyse ALL code that gets into the system.
ItĘs a completely different thought process, that CCP just doesnĘt seem to have.
Now obviously I havenĘt seen the code, but things like this....
Fleet battles, the first thing you do is lock a target and fire all your weapons.
This involves clicking on maybe 6-7 (13 or more for ECM boats) modules to activate all your weapons, and thatĘs 7 transactions to the server that need to be processed.
There should be an 'activate all' button, that as a user you can setup and decide what modules get activated with this button, then if this is pressed 1 transaction is sent to the server, instead of 7.
This is just one example that I can see 'should' help.
It might sound harsh, but since trinity and the 'Need for speed', this game has just got worse. So what ever it is their coders are doing itĘs not what is needed. They need to get fresh dedicated coders who know what they are doing in this area, because CLEARY the current ones donĘt know what to do.
that wouldn't work - it's not the bandwidth of sending commands, it's the processing of each one. When you click on your 425mm Railgun II, what do you think happens?
the CPU needs to calculate:
Your distance to your target
The Ammo used (distance / damage / damage type multipliers)
Transversal Velocity
Angular Velocity
Speed of ships
Your skills - trajectory analysis level, sharp shooter level etc
your weapon mods
your skills that affect your weapon mods
Your fall off
..
I could go on - then it needs to work out how much that single railgun does to the enemy target.
And you have 8 of them active.
And there's 20 or 30 of you in gang. Or 200.
And then the same for the enemy.
And there's 20 or 30 of them.
Or 200.
Once it's done that, it needs to look at your target, work out their shields, their armour, their resistances, their skills, their mods that affect the shields and armour, the skills that affect the mods that affect the shields and the armour...
And the drones
Ohhh the drones.
and the fighters.
:-)
So you can see, it's not just a matter of clicking a button...
And it needs to update the nodes and spread this info across the entire grid for everyone to get the information all at once, to keep everyone in line.
And it has to do it for, say, 2000 populated solar systems.
And manage all the NPCs in missions.
And the mining.
And the manufacturing.
And the market in that region/system.
Mmmm... when you look at it like that, it's impressive how the sever doesn't just fall over out of its rack.
--
Ralara / Ralarina
VOTE FOR RALARA AS YOUR CSM REPRESENTATIVE, AND RECEIVE A COUPON FOR A 10% DISCOUNT AT WORLD OF WARCRAFT.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=74811 |
Freya Selene
Delucian Defence Initiative
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:02:00 -
[63]
As a computer science student you should know that changes or constandly implemented and is an on going process of daily operations.
Comparing the Eve clients ability from 2003 vs hardware of 2008 and arround is more something for an historical point of view.
Have you compared the premium client also with 2003 hardware?
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:15:00 -
[64]
Why does the topic remind me of an Onion "Statshot?"
24% - AFK Miners
1% - Mission Runners
41% - Gate campers
7% - Jenny Spitfire
18% - Some war 42 jumps away
9% - .01 ISK Leapfroggers
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[]=
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Savant Hayt
Minmatar
The Reich
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:28:00 -
[65]
Critters knawning on teh pipe.
CCP game wardens are attending to the situation.
Thank you for your understanding
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Lakut
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.15 15:36:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Lakut on 15/04/2008 15:36:38
Edited by: Lakut on 15/04/2008 15:36:11
I assume you meant me.
Originally by: Freya Selene
As a computer science student you should know that changes or constandly implemented and is an on going process of daily operations.
Comparing the Eve clients ability from 2003 vs hardware of 2008 and arround is more something for an historical point of view.
Have you compared the premium client also with 2003 hardware?
Who the hell talked about the client?
And anyway, adding more shinyness to a graphics engine (your client frankly isn't much more with all the logic being serverside) isn't a major rewrite of a complete and complex server software.
And sure, the server software changed over time, implementing new features, but the major design decisions (following the programming paradigms of the time) that still burden the server software weren't overcome and adding more entropy to the code as well is not helping.
That it was slightly changed over years doesn't add maintainability.
On the contrary, software approaching Entropy Death is something most software engineers fear.
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You get a wonderful view from the point of no return. |
Commander 598
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:10:00 -
[67]
I heard EVE sends packets in the 8MB range.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:11:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Commander 598
I heard EVE sends packets in the 8MB range.
Your hand slipped from the K key a bit down to the M key a little bit there, buddy...
1|2|3|4|5. |
Dr Slaughter
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:29:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sionn Klorgh
WHAT EXACTLY IS CAUSING LAG?
The underpants.
Originally by: Sionn Klorgh
DOES CCP UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE EXACTLY?
Yes.
Originally by: Sionn Klorgh
IS THERE SOME FUNDAMENTAL LIMITATION IN TECHNOLOGY THAT WE ARE REACHING IN THIS GAME PREVENTING A FIX?
No. We have the technology although the implementation is hard and potentially very expensive. There are many threads on this, such as:
Linkage
Linkage
Typically search for the words 'infiniband' etc.
Originally by: Sionn Klorgh
I appreciate everyone's opinion on the matter.
dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004 |
TRYPTIC
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:15:00 -
[70]
I tried more than 2 years ago to explain what I thought created the lag, and all I got was a bunch of "you don't know what you're talking about" type responses.
This is the way it was explained to me by some network wonks:
The lag is due to 3 things - hardware, number of clients accessing the server and their distance(in jumps), and efficiency of the code being run.
Two of those three things can be controlled by those who run and maintain the server - get the best hardware money can buy and optimize the code.
The third, jump distance and number of clients accessing the server cannot be controlled. Hence there will ALWAYS be lag...no matter how many people will tell you otherwise. A guy playing in Hong Kong is not gonna have the same game experience as a guy playing in London. Mr Hong Kong is going to get server data quite a bit later than Mr London. It's the physics.
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Aprudena Gist
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:20:00 -
[71]
horrible netcode is causing the lag.
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Dr Slaughter
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 23:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
horrible netcode is causing the lag.
Evidently some people have made big strides in understanding the client recently. Perhaps you could back-up your statement with a hypothetical example of how not to implement a space mmo client...
dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004 |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.21 23:54:00 -
[73]
You see the internet is a series of tubes, oveur decided to use these tubes and install a distillery as the price of alcohol is ridiculous in Iceland. they planed ahead and saw that they could use a "fanfest" to smuggle in booze from the UK/US. The game hasnt quite reached a critical point at which the fanfest smugglers can supply ccp with a years worth of booze. hopefully at the next fanfest there will be enough imported booze that CCP can disassemble their moonshine factory and dump the massive load that is eve through the tubes.
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Forge Lag
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Posted - 2008.04.22 01:12:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I trie to make it easi for you to understood. Eve lag is cuz it is something like tis code down.
HAI
I HAS A LOKALGANG
LOL LOKALGANG R 400
I HAS A ME
LOL ME R 0
I HAS A YUO
LOL YUO R 0
IM IN YR LOOPOEN UPPIN YR ME TIL BOTHSAEM ME AN LOKALGANG
IM IN YR LOOPTOO UPPIN YR YUO TIL BOTHSAEM YUO AN LOKALGANG
DOESSUMTING ME AN YOU
IM OUTTA YR LOOPTOO
IM OUTTA YR LOOPOEN
KTHXBYE
You knoe why is lag?
This.
No amount of good coding or the shiniest hardware will solve this. Jita is bad. Fleet battles are bad.
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Belidonna
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Posted - 2008.04.22 01:38:00 -
[75]
Lag has been a problem ever since the server broke about 10k users online at the same time. In 2005 there was a large server upgrade to solid state disks.
http://www.superssd.com/success/ccpgames.htm
"Performance analysis revealed that disk queues were 40 requests deep. Microsoft recommends upgrading hardware if disk queues exceed 3. Better hardware is needed if more users are accessing a server. "
"Typical disk access times are 2-5 milliseconds and what was needed was a faster disk access time of 20-50 microseconds. "
"EVE Online's underlying storage bottleneck is a classic problem with Online Transaction Processing. 10,000+ users accessing account information, warping across the galaxy, buying goods from black-market free-lance smugglers and upgrading their mining frigates to assault cruisers all at the same time puts immense stress on disk-based storage. The game makes 60 million process calls per day with around 1,250 transactions per second at peak hours."
This was years ago with peaks less than 20K users. We are double that now. The only way it will be fixed is a rewrite and hardware upgrade or sharding the universe so that limits the total number of users allowed to subscribe to a server implementation is finite. This will allow operation and fits within the performance benchmarks of the hardware. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.22 01:58:00 -
[76]
lag is caused when dense people gather, the extra gravity causes time dialation (sp?) and everything slows down  |
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