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Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.15 15:45:00 - [1] As I stand upon my podium of doom and half stirred*****tails, I thrust upon the community a question of impending decisions! Oh mighty warriors of the lands that contain Angel rats! What ship brings with it the most efficiency when placed in front of these rats? Is the raven still the best ratter even in Angel space? Perhaps the Maelstrom offers the beasts a place in the afterlife? Or maybe the Dominix? Which do you find to be the fastest and safest ratter for these terrible, terrible fiends? Their wide spread of damage reminds me of Rogue Drones and I used a Raven out there effectively. The speed (now that torp's are short range) is lackluster in the killing department though. --- Put in space whales!
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.04.15 16:36:00 - [2] I'd say a shieldtanked Bouncer II 350mm II domi FTW. Can get like 800dps at like 40km. About half explosive damage, 1/4 thermal, 1/4 kinetic. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Lt Angus Caldari Wicked Crew	Posted - 2008.04.15 16:42:00 - [3] Ishtar, with beserker IIs, fast to get out if need be, passive shield tanks them no problem and room for salvagers and big cargo Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:25:00 - [4] Edited by: P''uck on 15/04/2008 17:29:13 since you have the skills for a torp raven, why not just use that ? stick in 2x missile speed and 1x flight time rigs, get an mwd (yes you can make it work) for those rare occasions you need a single burst, and youre good to go. edit; personally i would say the FASTEST ship for the job is a closerange (ie, mwd'ing) phoon with a medium shield booster and 2 slots for resists. yes im serious, that works. uses 3x ccc rigs. pushes close to 1k dps, almost pure explosive. you just have to get to around 10km and micromanage it a bit, but all in all it works a treat. if you slack around while killing, you could even die to the rats tho, but what you think we bring 1k damage for
Jennae Gallente Unity of Honor	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:33:00 - [5] why not use a tanked abaddon. the natural EX resist bonus and cap/recharge should be more than enough. Plus with Megapulse II you can decimate the close range BS, and help your drones with the 40km ones.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:38:00 - [6] because the abiltiy to deal explosive damage goes a long way. i never tried it but afaik amarr players arent very amused when they have to pew pew angels with lasers.
Jennae Gallente Unity of Honor	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:48:00 - [7] I thought EM was their second lowest res... I guess I could be wrong.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.04.15 17:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Lt Angus Ishtar, with beserker IIs, fast to get out if need be, passive shield tanks them no problem and room for salvagers and big cargo ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:20:00 - [9] Fastest ship for killing them is prolly torp Raven. Angels are easy to shieltank, and belting favors torps, especially angels, most of which come into T1 torp range quite willingly. The ship I found perfect though was the Sacrilege. Due to innate resists, mobility and small sig, I could shieldtank every spawn with just a domination med booster, 2 T2 invuls and a damage control. So I had enough room to fit MWD, 3 BCUs and one speed mod, resulting in something very fast with quite good dps. It hopped the belts more than twice as fast a s a BS, was always right on top of the BSes when they died to check the loot, and hardly ever lost any time on transit between NPCs with the MWD and the angels love for close range. Not to mention the fast warpout in case of local going red... I would assume the Ishtar delivers a similar performance, regrettably I have no skills for it to try. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Zephyr Rengate Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:44:00 - [10] Any post a passive shield tank ishtar please. Thanks in advance. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I habe no life.

P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:57:00 - [11] Edited by: P''uck on 15/04/2008 19:06:28 Edited by: P''uck on 15/04/2008 19:01:21 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Fastest ship for killing them is prolly torp Raven. Angels are easy to shieltank, and belting favors torps, especially angels, most of which come into T1 torp range quite willingly. The ship I found perfect though was the Sacrilege. Due to innate resists, mobility and small sig, I could shieldtank every spawn with just a domination med booster, 2 T2 invuls and a damage control. So I had enough room to fit MWD, 3 BCUs and one speed mod, resulting in something very fast with quite good dps. It hopped the belts more than twice as fast a s a BS, was always right on top of the BSes when they died to check the loot, and hardly ever lost any time on transit between NPCs with the MWD and the angels love for close range. Not to mention the fast warpout in case of local going red... I would assume the Ishtar delivers a similar performance, regrettably I have no skills for it to try. and thats exactly why the mwding phoon works so great. sure, it doesnt align as fast and only goes around 1400kms, but boy, 1k explosive damage! if you drop the 2 gyros (which i add only because im neurotic about damage mods) you push "only" 950dps (thats full skills, with everything at lvl3 that translates to about 700something) but can fit some istabs to only align marginally slower than a sac without istabs/nanos. edit; yes i know, shieldtanking a phoon is bleurgh, but heck, its friggin npcs, with what? like 200 and some dps? sure, you cannot permatank it, but why would you, with bs targets dropping every 30 to 40 secs tops?
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:34:00 - [12] Originally by: P'uck Edited by: P''uck on 15/04/2008 19:12:13 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Fastest ship for killing them is prolly torp Raven. Angels are easy to shieltank, and belting favors torps, especially angels, most of which come into T1 torp range quite willingly. The ship I found perfect though was the Sacrilege. Due to innate resists, mobility and small sig, I could shieldtank every spawn with just a domination med booster, 2 T2 invuls and a damage control. So I had enough room to fit MWD, 3 BCUs and one speed mod, resulting in something very fast with quite good dps. It hopped the belts more than twice as fast a s a BS, was always right on top of the BSes when they died to check the loot, and hardly ever lost any time on transit between NPCs with the MWD and the angels love for close range. Not to mention the fast warpout in case of local going red... I would assume the Ishtar delivers a similar performance, regrettably I have no skills for it to try. and thats exactly why the mwding phoon works so great. sure, it doesnt align as fast and only goes around 1400kms, but boy, over 1k explosive damage! if you drop 2 gyros (which i fit just because im neurotic about damage mods) in favour of istabs you only align marginally slower than a sac without istabs/nanos, but still push around 950dps with full skills. (around 700 with all the relevant skills at 3). edit; yes i know, shieldtanking a phoon is bleurgh, but heck, its friggin npcs, with what? like 200 and some dps? sure, you cannot permatank it, but why would you, with bs targets dropping every 30 to 40 secs tops? While this is good in theory, I have some doubts about how that phoon would tank triple long range spawns. When you have to run the MWD a lot and do not use a deadspace shieldbooster, you are going to struggle with only a 3-slot shieldtank and no T2 resists. And when the shields are gone, your armor is extrememly weak to Angels as well... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:42:00 - [13] Edited by: P''uck on 16/04/2008 07:42:30 well, granted, if i warp into a belt with bs targets 70km away and i forgot to boost my shields back to full midwarp it gets a bit iffy, ie shields go to 20%. as far as i can remember i never had to rep its armor ever since i undocked the "Phat Ratswat" the first time. the hp buffer from shields alone is enough to get in range and the mwd runs for like 4 or 5 minutes. once i get in range i flick on the booster (which permaruns with cap left so i regain enough for single mwd boosts during the fight) i tried it mostly with gurista, granted, but those are even longer range than angels and deal even less favourable types of damage. so i figure it will wipe the floor with angels like its not pretty anymore. i totally understand your doubts, but im not making this up
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:27:00 - [14] Originally by: P'uck Edited by: P''uck on 15/04/2008 17:57:59 since you have the skills for a torp raven, why not just use that ? stick in 2x missile speed and 1x flight time rigs, get an mwd (yes you can make it work) for those rare occasions you need a single burst, and youre good to go. another edit: that should in fact work with an AB too, with full skills you get around 45k t1 torp range in that config anyway. edit; personally i would say the FASTEST ship for the job is a closerange (ie, mwd'ing) phoon with a medium shield booster and 2 slots for resists. yes im serious, that works. uses 3x ccc rigs. pushes close to 1k dps, almost pure explosive (berzerkers, bane and fusion) you just have to get to around 10km and micromanage it a bit, but all in all it works a treat. if you slack around while killing, you could even die to the rats tho, but what you think we bring 1k damage for Forgive my ignorance, but does the phoon need 3x CCC rigs to run a medium shield booster and an MWD? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.16 08:32:00 - [15] Edited by: P''uck on 16/04/2008 08:35:55 Originally by: Malcanis Forgive my ignorance, but does the phoon need 3x CCC rigs to run a medium shield booster and an MWD? guess it depends on skill but you could permarun the booster with less and NOT permarun the MWD on the other hand with even 5 of them (wild guess) but you need a fair share of extra cap to make use of the mwd, and i really think i found the balance for the capacitor. if the booster is running i produce about 4 spare cap per second, and this feels about right to make any use of the mwd without using a highslot for nos. a bit more wouldnt hurt, a lot more would be wasted. a tiny bit less and the hassle starts. i know, 60 mil rigs sounds like a waste, but i dare you to find similar applicable damage output at less cost
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:53:00 - [16] Well I am definitely going to try to give the phoon fitted sac-style a whirl, first on EFT and if that works out against Serpentis (should work fine there too, the Sac does anyway). I love the phoon for PvP, I finally got T2 sentries which allow it to be a great mission boat too, and if I can make it rat like a Sac now too... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:24:00 - [17] I currently use the typhoon for every other NPC region (I like MWDing in a garbage can, weeeeeeeeeeee) so I guess I can give a shield tanking phoon a chance. MWD, booster, 2x hardener 2x AC 4x torp 1x cloak 1x salvage? Got one cloak on my ratter at the moment and the drop in dps from losing the gun isn't a big deal to me...can't see it being much of a deal dropping a second gun. --- Put in space whales!
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.16 13:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Lisento Slaven 1x cloak 1x salvage? i only have weapon upgrades 4 for another 2 days or so, and cpu was always the limiting factor on the phoon, for me. i think the guns you plan to drop should free up more than enough to fit those two utility things. that being said... you can probably tell im obsessed with damage. you could convince me a cloak is a good idea, because the ability to go for a potty break in a system without friendly posses / outposts goes a long way. but the salvager (dont laugh) kinda goes totally against the idea of the setup. youre doing some weird stuff to the phoon so it kills REALLY fast so you can hop more belts than the other guy thats hogging your favourite system a salvager slows you down if you use it, and wastes a slot if you dont. it kinda feels like fitting an overdrive and a cargo expander on the same ship to me ;) but hey, its YOUR boat, and i dont see why it shouldnt work.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.17 00:34:00 - [19] Originally by: P'uck but the salvager (dont laugh) kinda goes totally against the idea of the setup. youre doing some weird stuff to the phoon so it kills REALLY fast so you can hop more belts than the other guy thats hogging your favourite system a salvager slows you down if you use it, and wastes a slot if you dont. it kinda feels like fitting an overdrive and a cargo expander on the same ship to me ;) but hey, its YOUR boat, and i dont see why it shouldnt work. edit; its nice to see that the space whaler is also a trash can man. As I understand it the Angels drop some nice salvage a bit more often than other NPC's and I don't really want to run 2 accounts on my PC to salvage and rat with. And yes...I love the trash can. Plates...trimarks...4x T2 AC's 4x T2 Torps 5x Ogre II's 1x Painter 1x MWD 1x Web 1x Warp disruptor... I just love the pure DEATH that flies out of this ship in every fashion possible. It has all weapon systems...and just...spits death...like a trashcan on fire.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2008.04.17 02:03:00 - [20] if is "safe space" Raven imo best choice then domi and phoon can work well too... even if for the phoon i'll armortank it as normal, shield tank mean that you cant fit webber and mwd and i'm not that sure you can tank a 3 BS encounter not to say that if you get some ebil pwirate you will be dead in no time (with other ships at least you can hope to hold enought for reinforcements to arrive) if instead area is not safe then i'll go with ishtar too Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".

Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.04.17 04:07:00 - [21] Absolute best is nano-sleipnir with fighters assigned.


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