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L0rdF1end
STA'IN
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
25
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Posted - 2012.02.28 13:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just curious, maybe some of you can help me understand why some people are so dead against nullsec.
Okay...some may have had a bad experience, but I know of some people that plainly refuse to ever go to null...what a waste of this beautiful game if your not going to eventually explore all aspects.
so anyone? open conversation, lets find out the reasons.
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
29
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Posted - 2012.02.28 13:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fear |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
137
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Posted - 2012.02.28 13:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
This, some people are just boring and wants to play a grind type of game where their endgame is a fully faction fit faction battleship that cant really be used in null because stuff dies eventually. |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
Cascade Imminent
224
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Posted - 2012.02.28 13:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:Just curious, maybe some of you can help me understand why some people are so dead against nullsec.
Okay...some may have had a bad experience, but I know of some people that plainly refuse to ever go to null...what a waste of this beautiful game if your not going to eventually explore all aspects.
so anyone? open conversation, lets find out the reasons.
Because everything you can get in null sec, you can get in high sec with considerably less effort.
Not that I'm one of the "buff null sec" crowd, to be honest it isn't really dangerous enough to warrant it. I'd be happy with vanguards getting a little tweak, null sec (mostly sov null sec) being made considerably more dangerous and then they can talk about buffing it.
Nalha Saldana wrote:cant really be used in null because stuff dies eventually.
Only if you're doing it wrong 
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1121
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Posted - 2012.02.28 13:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
I left Nullsec primarily because it became impossible to make ISK for me after the Sanctum changes. I was also getting sick and tired of logging on to a CTA every single ******* day with no time to make ISK and do what I want to do. Being forced to play the game for someone else's benifit isn't fun at all. I moved back to WH space and haven't looked back. I get my PvP when I want it and make ISK when I want to.
I have absolutely no "fear" of anything in Nullsec. I am willing to lose ships...in fact i WANT to lose ships. It is the only way for me to tell what fits actually work and what fits don't in a real fight. EFT can only tell you so much.
I think most people are opposed to going to Nullsec because they don't want to be forced to do anything. They don't want to be told what to do and where to go and when to be there. They want to log on, do their thing and have fun. For some that is fleet fights and constant death. For others it is making ISK. Some are right in between. I not only pay for my gametime with ISK now for 3 accounts but I also buy my ships for PvP with ISK. I don't buy PLEX or anything else with real money to play EvE. That means I HAVE to have time to make my ISK and can't always PvP.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
29
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Because everything you can get in null sec, you can get in high sec with considerably less effort.
I'm not sure I agree with that. You can't get moon goo in high sec. I can make a LOT more isk in null sec than high sec without as much effort if in relatively uncontested sov systems. ABC ores.
Fact is, null sec is more rewarding and more dangerous. I won't debate whether either is enough or whether it's balanced but if you want to go there you have to have a corp big enough in a big enough alliance to take space off someone and deal with when they bring in their friends and/or mercs which basically removes small corps from the equation unless you're prepared to pay for the privilege.
Also, you're corp/alliance needs to have a sizable pvp wing and have most if not all players capable and willing to do pvp. Some people play this game as though it wasn't a pvp game. To do that you need to remain firmly entrenched in high sec.
Horses for courses. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
29
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I left Nullsec primarily because it became impossible to make ISK for me after the Sanctum changes. I was also getting sick and tired of logging on to a CTA every single ******* day with no time to make ISK and do what I want to do. Being forced to play the game for someone else's benifit isn't fun at all. I moved back to WH space and haven't looked back. I get my PvP when I want it and make ISK when I want to.
I have absolutely no "fear" of anything in Nullsec. I am willing to lose ships...in fact i WANT to lose ships. It is the only way for me to tell what fits actually work and what fits don't in a real fight. EFT can only tell you so much.
I think most people are opposed to going to Nullsec because they don't want to be forced to do anything. They don't want to be told what to do and where to go and when to be there. They want to log on, do their thing and have fun. For some that is fleet fights and constant death. For others it is making ISK. Some are right in between. I not only pay for my gametime with ISK now for 3 accounts but I also buy my ships for PvP with ISK. I don't buy PLEX or anything else with real money to play EvE. That means I HAVE to have time to make my ISK and can't always PvP.
Actually, this too. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
German Information Network Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
This.
Also I have this perception that nullsec is for hardcores and hardcores keep carebears like me in deep contempt, while I'm not too keen to look for friends between people who despise me. |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
Cascade Imminent
224
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I left Nullsec primarily because it became impossible to make ISK for me after the Sanctum changes. I was also getting sick and tired of logging on to a CTA every single ******* day with no time to make ISK and do what I want to do. Being forced to play the game for someone else's benifit isn't fun at all. I moved back to WH space and haven't looked back. I get my PvP when I want it and make ISK when I want to.
This.
It would be really nice if space in null was genuinely valuable, and not just for the alliance leaders who control renting/moons. As it stands anomalies are pretty lulzy, and exploration is only really viable in large alliances who control an appreciable percentage of a region.
Having said that, anomalies are more or less risk free. I still think if they're buffed they should make running them more dangerous, currently if you pay attention to local and have a few bubbles on gate you will literally never die to anything bar an awoxer. Even the bubbles on gate are pretty much optional, if you hit warp as soon as a neut enters even carriers should have time to align before anything lands.
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I think most people are opposed to going to Nullsec because they don't want to be forced to do anything. They don't want to be told what to do and where to go and when to be there. They want to log on, do their thing and have fun. For some that is fleet fights and constant death. For others it is making ISK. Some are right in between. I not only pay for my gametime with ISK now for 3 accounts but I also buy my ships for PvP with ISK. I don't buy PLEX or anything else with real money to play EvE. That means I HAVE to have time to make my ISK and can't always PvP.
I like the idea of being forced to fight for space, I just wish that the space had some kind of value. Since joining cascade the amount I make has literally not changed at all, for me the part of null sec I am supposedly fighting for holds no more value than low sec or NPC 0.0.
Having said that, cascade are really good when it comes to not bitching about CTAs and stuff. As long as you turn up to a few every now and then if you're online, and you don't completely suck at Eve, no one will really bother you.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
Cascade Imminent
224
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:This. Also I have this perception that nullsec is for hardcores and hardcores keep carebears like me in deep contempt, while I'm not too keen to look for friends between people who despise me.
Nah, I'm a giant care bear too and I live in null  There is such a thing as hard core carebearing you know 
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
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Mike Whiite
Progressive State
24
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think the people that aviod 0.0 due to fear are fewer people than you think.
Low sec is more dangerous in a lot of ways.
Worm Holes probably even more.
And for a large group of players with limited time, it's just not fun to be doing alliance duties the few hours you have to spend online.
Oh and the afk cloak whine threads don't help either.
as for people leaving, boredom and Eve Becomming a real Job are the most heard complains about 0.0, in the low sec part I call home. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
480
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Not a fan of FPS and buffering the lanes of a bowling alley.
OMG! Dude on grid! SHOOT IT NAO! from a guy with high scan res cause its shoot first, whine later there is nothing in lowsec/nullsec (duh, I wonder why nobody goes there ?  )
While flying through choke points where you can't possible avoid a gate camp unless you fly way the **** out of your way or fit a cloaking device (but I gave up long ago trying, cause I don't belive it works except when they scream and whine to nerf it)
Give me a better way to avoid people (like instead of choke point pipes, systems have at least 12 neighboring jump gates to defend making it damn impossible camp) or people bother to play any other game style but CoD clowns expecting their xEVE or EVELive score to be better then some other assclown on this ******* mudball (really, you expect to have an impressive game score to gloat about? So, if it is so special to you then I am all for leaving SD and Titan guns as is just to frustrate the hell out of you guys) |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
Cascade Imminent
225
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Not a fan of FPS and buffering the lanes of a bowling alley. OMG! Dude on grid! SHOOT IT NAO! from a guy with high scan res cause its shoot first, whine later there is nothing in lowsec/nullsec (duh, I wonder why nobody goes there ? ) While flying through choke points where you can't possible avoid a gate camp unless you fly way the **** out of your way or fit a cloaking device (but I gave up long ago trying, cause I don't belive it works except when they scream and whine to nerf it) Give me a better way to avoid people (like instead of choke point pipes, systems have at least 12 neighboring jump gates to defend making it damn impossible camp) or people bother to play any other game style but CoD clowns expecting their xEVE or EVELive score to be better then some other assclown on this ******* mudball (really, you expect to have an impressive game score to gloat about? So, if it is so special to you then I am all for leaving SD and Titan guns as is just to frustrate the hell out of you guys)
If you're honestly having difficulty getting around in null sec you're doing something wrong, only thing I've ever lost to gate camps is a cyno ship.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
Petition Blizzard
1039
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Most of my corpmates came back from nullsec. I hear pretty much the same thing from all of them: it stopped being fun. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
791
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
The main reason I live in highsec right now rather than low/null is that it's just easier to live in high. I'm not at all afraid of low/null or anything, I've lived in both WHs and nullsec in the past and I go through them and lowsec all without thinking twice (especially low, due to the lack of bubbles, lol).
But for my personal gameplay style, I like being able to just AFK randomly if I get bored doing stuff and I like being able to just hop into the game, fly around a bit, and then AFK while chatting with corpies or something. Nullsec just doesn't end up fitting quite so well with what I end up doing in-game. And on top of that there's the difficulty of finding a good alliance if you actually want to get into null even somewhat safely. |
CaleAdaire
Research Industry Mining and Support
Gatekeepers Universe
29
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Posted - 2012.02.28 15:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
for me, the biggest barrier was a fear of low/null instilled by my first corp, which told me that it was dangerous and i was guaranteed to lose billions on my first excursion. I have since discovered this is crap.
Please stop asking for new stuff "Cuz it's neat".-á |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
79
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Posted - 2012.02.28 15:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
I shot at some pos's, then I shot at some stations, then I repped some stations, there were times I was titan jumped many systems from my home only to slow boat it home.
Deployment in far off systems followed by redeployments many systems over.
CTA after CTA after CTA which got almost as bad as doing missions.
Then life changed a little, I can't commit as much time to the game so I'm in empire, tooling about
Plus, I've always loved the meta game more than the actual game. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
109
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Posted - 2012.02.28 15:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fear? I am sure some could be seen that way. More likely a sense of fear of the unknown, where they feel unable to connect with the required groups to get into null. Fully perception based, but not always wrong.
Statistically a bad gamble? Yes, perception that people will be ganked on a regular basis can exist. Fully perception based, but not as bad as they think it is. A few choke points give the entire region a sense of this, if you cannot get past them.
Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it? Most likely a lot avoid it for this reason, simply not able to play enough to generate enough ISK to fly ships they consider worth the effort. PvE mentality implies the best ship for the job is the only ship to bother with.
It always comes down to perception.
And crafting the perception that null or low is more desirable is the solution. |
Buzzy Warstl
Huron Syndicate
21
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Posted - 2012.02.28 15:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
For some players it is probably fear, but I really don't think it's the primary driver.
The simple fact is that for players who aren't already in a nullsec alliance there is nothing in nullsec, and most people don't want to ask for other players' permission to play a game that they are paying for.
So why even go there? |
Aglais
Right Click Industries
52
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Posted - 2012.02.28 16:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
For why there aren't alot of people generally floating around in nullsec, I suspect that being ripped limb from limb by hostile gatecamps seconds after jumping into the first nullsec system of any pipe is a major cause. It's likely happened to more people than it hasn't. (I don't know about you guys but the only times I haven't been ripped apart by gatecamps, is when I was jumping in as one of the camping force. At least in the first systems.)
It boils down to "If you're not one of us, you're already dead" because the alliances out there seem kind of paranoid. And by 'kind of' I mean 'Would kill their mother, their father, and all of their extended family on suspicion of them being Russian/whatever-group-of-players-in-null-you-don't-like spies'.
Not to mention, what little aspects of gameplay there are in null at the moment, these alliances generally have an iron grip over, so if there's any place that doesn't have much player influence it's probably devoid of anything useful anyways. It's hardly an expansive and lawless frontier anymore. It has edges. And if you're not part of any of the 'elite' who have built themselves fortresses in the dark, you're not welcome, except really as target practice. Even then, again, you're usually dead on the first gate unless you're in a cloaky, interdiction nullified T3 or a ceptor or something and the campers are drunk.
Sometime's it's also kind of hard to keep up with "CTA CTA CTA GET YOUR (ship that you don't want to fly but absolutely have to for fleet doctrine) OUT AND GET TO (staging system two constellations over)". If you're not in the right group this is just painful, really.
Have I mentioned that being in an alliance is more or less having a second/third job sometimes? Yeah, that's probably it. At times it can be ok, but at others it's just not what you need. |
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L0rdF1end
STA'IN
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
25
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Posted - 2012.02.28 16:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ok cool, thank you for the replies. keep them coming.
Would you say there are any distinguishable differences in NULL experiences based on whether you were in a SOV held alliance or NPC space based alliance concerning the game play woes mentioned so far? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
30
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Posted - 2012.02.28 17:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
I left because it was boring as hell. Rat throughout the week interspersed with a few patrols and lot of blobbage .. was a few good weeks that I remember when we were attacked and there were some grudge matches between enemy suppression gangs and our own while both sides waited for timers ..
FW has more of the "fun periods" (read: small gang skirmishing) and less of the eye-scratching tedium of positioning a blob for some random gank and/or one-sided engagement. Then again, blobs for me are now anything approaching fifty people and up so my view may be a bit off from standard null blobs 
Reason why I am not going back to null is that the powers that be seem intent on keeping the status quo complete with endless EHP grinds and ever increasing fleet sizes .. until that changes (which I doubt will ever happen) null is dead to me. |
James Amril-Kesh
Interstellar Faction 21
39
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
It's nearly impossible to live alone in null. The market is almost nonexistent, plus the majority of items are in places you can't get into anyway. I'm not saying that should be changed, but it's one of the reasons I don't see myself there for very long unless I've got some mining and manufacturing friends along with me.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window! |
Tidurious
The Dirty Rejects
Scelus Sceleris.
131
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have yet to find a corp that will accept a player like me: I am a casual player who might play 2 hours on week one, 5 hours on week two, and not at all for 10 days after that. I have a job, am getting married soon, and I'm also finishing two degrees in college. My online times are not consistent other than one evening a week for an hour or two USUALLY.
I'd LOVE to find a nullsec corp that would have me, but it's hard to find when playtime is so varied. |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
12
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
It basically comes down to the following:
1) It's incredibly unsafe unless you are in a large alliance.
2) Most null sec alliances are either: requiring too much of my time, too elite, assholes, or suck what they do.
3) Fighting in Blobs sucks.
4) Shooting structures sucks.
5) Getting hot dropped sucks.
6) There are better, safer, and easier ways to make isk.
Basically Null Sec sucks for the casual player of eve. |
Galphii
Furnulum pani nolo
THE SPACE P0LICE
27
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
I look upon nullsec as 'hardcore mode', for players with a lot of time to spare. I used to be in nullsec on a previous character but life started to get really busy for me so I cut back on EvE a lot. I mostly do lowsec and highsec stuff just because they're good for casual players. The idea that people who don't go to null are afraid is the point of view from a hardcore player who has time to burn.
And I'd love to see changes made so that nullsec marketing is possible; the entire player base of EvE shouldn't have to go to Jita to buy and sell stuff. |
Rawls Canardly
Phoenix Confederation
20
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Posted - 2012.02.29 03:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
For me, it's because I like to dictate the terms of the fight. WH and Highsec are the only areas really capable of that. Null and Low are generally ambushes waiting to happen. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
144
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Posted - 2012.02.29 06:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
I've lived in nullsec for perhaps a total of 6 months, and have completely sworn it off. Frankly, it gets in the way of me playing the game.
It goes roughly like this:
Log In
CTA in progress
sit in station cause I can't afford ships cause I can't grind isk cause there's a 100% tax during a CTA.
Log Off
Alternately;
Log In
CTA in progress
Run magnetometric sites for isk to afford ships to run CTA's, thus getting money in spite of the tax issue.
Get booted from alliance for not flying in the CTA.
/wrist
And since there seems to be a CTA up at all times (if it's not home defense, it's picking a fight with someone else so they don't come to our space, thus requiring home defense), high sec is simply more fun. Which is saying a lot, cause highsec is not exactly exciting. |
Slumber Hawk
Shadow on the moon
6
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Posted - 2012.02.29 06:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
the one who said Fear already summed it up quite nicely in one word, but ...
the actual word should be: Balance, the balance between time to fight vs the time to farm
EVE is economicaly correct, meaning war is expensive and Losing a war very expensive. |
Fyor
I Am Wee Tod Did
0
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Posted - 2012.02.29 06:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tidurious wrote:I have yet to find a corp that will accept a player like me: I am a casual player who might play 2 hours on week one, 5 hours on week two, and not at all for 10 days after that. I have a job, am getting married soon, and I'm also finishing two degrees in college. My online times are not consistent other than one evening a week for an hour or two USUALLY.
I'd LOVE to find a nullsec corp that would have me, but it's hard to find when playtime is so varied.
You're problem is that you're being selfish... It's all about what they can do for you.
Nullsec is a pain in the ass, and just to get by day to day, it requires people who will show up when needed.
I've read a lot of your posts, and honestly you seem very hard to please. If you spent less time trolling these threads and trying to participate in the game, you'd prolly have more fun.
Lighten up a bit man... |
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