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The case of the missing isk...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.04.18 03:50:00 - [31] You cannot help but read this entire thread, and listen to all the dramatics and tensions - and think to yourself that this is all over gold farmers. They are parasites that leech off EVE - as well as a disease that plagues the honest players of the EVE community in too many ways that should be allowed. I truly, utterly get more and more disgusted with these groups every day. I hope they are disposed of very painfully and quickly twists knife jutting from the back of a freshly killed ISK farmer A lot of the problem of this is not just the ISK farmers - it's the people who lurk int he shadows buying it to; they are just as bad. Let this post and all the others be a lesson that the ISK farmers shouldn't be tolerated - they are nothing but destructive to the game and the community. Buyers should not be tolerated either IMO, and I think everyone should do their part to make sure your own friends who could be tempted to buy the blood-ISK from doing so in the first place - in the least. I personally would find it hard not to report even a friend for buying ISK. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.04.18 05:33:00 - [32] Ouch, I hope you get it back. Was the codes you sold done before the new system, because I know it takes them months usually to actually catch the isk seller and then remove the isk. I'd like to know if they killed off the GTC as well for the buyer, if not they should have reveresed it to your account. PS: I hope it was not someone else in our corp that did this to you :( Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Pennwisedom	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Lord XSiV You are wrong. If he did use the GTC system and the isk was reversed then as a player he was punished for having to unecessarily go through a supposedly secure process. You should clarify Number Three to be dependent on whether the secure GTC system was used or not and whether it is truly a safe system for players to use as promoted by CCP. Wow, this is by far one of the dumbest things to ever be said on these forums. I can't even fathom the thought process that went into this reply. I can only hope that you're just trolling, and don't actually believe this.
Constance Noring	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:13:00 - [34] Not removing isk from the seller opens the door for laundering purchased isk using 2 accounts. Perhaps CCP should remove the isk from the seller, remove the game time from the buyer, and provide the seller with a new time code.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:26:00 - [35] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Sounds to me like he probably didn't use the secure system to sell the timecard with, as it's against the rules to not do so. This. It's extremely unlikely that CCP would have removed your ISK if you used the secure method. Sorry . I would still enquire to the GMs about it though - unless you were lying and bought ISK from the farmers. Then you deserve everything you get.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.18 08:37:00 - [36] It's called a SECURE time code trading system. It is for your security. Not security from unscrupulous dealers, but security from CCP's policies. So even if you are dealing with a guy you've known for 20 years, who has never stolen a girlfriend from you, and always fixed your car when he dinged it, use the SECURE system. It is protection for YOU from the actions of CCP.

GM Guard	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Rakivic Edited by: Rakivic on 18/04/2008 02:02:06 I used the "proper method" on this website to sell them that is why I am so p.i.s.s.e.d because CCP wont give me my isk back and it was not just for one time code he bought 2X90 day time codes for 550m each which is 1.1b total Hi. I have searched our petition system and haven't found any petition from you regarding this matter. If you need to talk to us I suggest you file another one and we will be happy to discuss this matter with you. A note to everyone else reading this, we NEVER reverse GTC sales that are performed with our secure ETC trading system. Straight donations and other kinds of transactions from ISK sellers are however routinely reversed, even if people claim that GTCs were traded for the ISK and not real money. Selling ETCs outside the secure system is a EULA violation and trading ETCs with ISK sellers insecurely is completely indistinguishable from ISK purchasing.

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Count Bolton Just to clarify, it's CCP's EULA that states they can do whatever they want with their game, because it is their property. However, when you buy a game card from CCP, that game card is no longer their property, it is your property. That is why you can sell them, trade them, and ultimately transfer ownership of the game card itself. CCP either has to honor the value of their game card, or give you a refund, otherwise they are in violation of many trade regulations of various countries. And when it comes to EULA versus actual laws, the EULA falls flat on its face, as proven countless times in court. But they didn't take his GTC from him; he sold it to another player. CCP took ISK from him, and this ISK does belong to them CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: 5pinDizzy Sounds to me like he probably didn't use the secure system to sell the timecard with, as it's against the rules to not do so. This. It's extremely unlikely that CCP would have removed your ISK if you used the secure method. Sorry . I would still enquire to the GMs about it though - unless you were lying and bought ISK from the farmers. Then you deserve everything you get. This. Considering GM Gaurd's post above, this smells more like ISK seller anti-GTC propaganda. I call shennanigans. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lord XSiV Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Pennwisedom Originally by: Lord XSiV You are wrong. If he did use the GTC system and the isk was reversed then as a player he was punished for having to unecessarily go through a supposedly secure process. You should clarify Number Three to be dependent on whether the secure GTC system was used or not and whether it is truly a safe system for players to use as promoted by CCP. Wow, this is by far one of the dumbest things to ever be said on these forums. I can't even fathom the thought process that went into this reply. I can only hope that you're just trolling, and don't actually believe this. Just because you don't have the comprehension skills to understand something, it doesn't mean there is no merit. If civilization only listened to people like yourself, we would all still be livng in caves and throwing rocks at each other. Luckily, ignorance of those of lessor intelligence over the ages has prevailed. For yourself and those like you who are incapable of understanding anything more complex than 'the dog is brown' the whole point was to bring up whether this so so called system is truly 'secure' and provides the protection from anti-capitalist actions that were done in the past. If you claim something, you must be able to back up said claims and anything that brings those claims into question when dealing with a matter of trust must be addressed.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: 5pinDizzy Sounds to me like he probably didn't use the secure system to sell the timecard with, as it's against the rules to not do so. This. It's extremely unlikely that CCP would have removed your ISK if you used the secure method. Sorry . I would still enquire to the GMs about it though - unless you were lying and bought ISK from the farmers. Then you deserve everything you get. This. Considering GM Gaurd's post above, this smells more like ISK seller anti-GTC propaganda. I call shennanigans. Well he could easily verify that he is telling the truth just by downloading his market transactions through the API, not modifying the file, and uploading it to eve-files so we can see for ourselves. If he does that we can know for sure that nothing suspicious happened. So OP, are you willing do to that to clear your name? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:54:00 - [42] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 18/04/2008 13:55:33 Originally by: GM Guard Originally by: Rakivic Edited by: Rakivic on 18/04/2008 02:02:06 I used the "proper method" on this website to sell them that is why I am so p.i.s.s.e.d because CCP wont give me my isk back and it was not just for one time code he bought 2X90 day time codes for 550m each which is 1.1b total Hi. I have searched our petition system and haven't found any petition from you regarding this matter. If you need to talk to us I suggest you file another one and we will be happy to discuss this matter with you. A note to everyone else reading this, we NEVER reverse GTC sales that are performed with our secure ETC trading system. Straight donations and other kinds of transactions from ISK sellers are however routinely reversed, even if people claim that GTCs were traded for the ISK and not real money. Selling ETCs outside the secure system is a EULA violation and trading ETCs with ISK sellers insecurely is completely indistinguishable from ISK purchasing. Boom-headshot A direct GM response...in public. I love it. More please . I officially forgive you guys for not reimbursing the 2 ships I have petitioned in the last 18 months due to "server records indicate bupkus". "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Luh Windan Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:55:00 - [43] Edited by: Luh Windan on 18/04/2008 13:55:29 So lets get this straight. Someone bought some isk using their credit card or whatever and then used that isk to pay you 1billion Isk for a GTC. So a) why did you not use the secure GTC trade mechanism b) why did you sell the GTC for 1 billion instead of whatever the going rate is c) why did the original buyer just not buy a GTC themselves and c) then let themselves be ripped off with a 1 billion isk GTC
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:57:00 - [44] Waiting for OP response... EVE RELATED CONTENT
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.18 14:17:00 - [45] Originally by: Lord XSiV Just because you don't have the comprehension skills to understand something, it doesn't mean there is no merit. If civilization only listened to people like yourself, we would all still be livng in caves and throwing rocks at each other. Luckily, ignorance of those of lessor intelligence over the ages has prevailed. For yourself and those like you who are incapable of understanding anything more complex than 'the dog is brown' the whole point was to bring up whether this so so called system is truly 'secure' and provides the protection from anti-capitalist actions that were done in the past. If you claim something, you must be able to back up said claims and anything that brings those claims into question when dealing with a matter of trust must be addressed. :psyduck: Wow, just wow. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.04.18 14:27:00 - [46] Yarp I think a lot of these posts are nothing more than spin doctoring by ISK famers trying to damage CCP's reputation in response to CCP's actions against them. If this happened to me I'd be upset, but I'd petition and escalate it further if necessary. I wouldn't spam the forum with it though.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:19:00 - [47] All these new threads about CCP going after evil doers make me happy in the pants. I'm lovin it.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:29:00 - [48] Obviously CCP shouldn't (and doesn't seem to) take away your isk from a secure GTC transaction if it turns out the other guy bought the ISK. Nor should they do it if you buy an account the secure way and it turns out the other guy had bought some ISK. But this brings up an interesting question - how far up the chain do you go to pursue isk? I think that legitimate market transactions, for example, should not be rolled back. If I sell a Pith X type XL shield booster for 3B or something and then CCP comes along and removes 3B from my wallet because the guy who bought it used bought isk, I would be pretty livid :D (Unless they returned my shield booster to me)
Simetraz	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:30:00 - [49] Edited by: Simetraz on 18/04/2008 15:30:24 What I find interesting about threads like this is the always state they now have a negative ISK amount. THe exact amount they purchased. So if you had 0 isk in the bank You get 1.1 Billion CCP removes 1.1 Billion You now are back at 0 ISK Or So if you had 100 mill isk in the bank You get 1.1 Billion You purchased what ?? a carrier maybe. CCP removes 1.1 Billion You now are at - 800 Million for arguments sake. But you still have the asset you purchased. I am just wondering why CCP didn't just destroy the assets you must have purchased. I wonder if you can petition them to just destroy what you purchased and say fair enough let me move on. It is just odd that the numbers never seem to add up.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:31:00 - [50] So OP, how about those market logs? Or I'm guessing that you aren't going to post in this thread again like all those poor, innocent people that CCP victimized.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Simetraz Edited by: Simetraz on 18/04/2008 15:30:24 What I find interesting about threads like this is the always state they now have a negative ISK amount. THe exact amount they purchased. So if you had 0 isk in the bank You get 1.1 Billion CCP removes 1.1 Billion You now are back at 0 ISK Or So if you had 100 mill isk in the bank You get 1.1 Billion You purchased what ?? a carrier maybe. CCP removes 1.1 Billion You now are at - 800 Million for arguments sake. But you still have the asset you purchased. I am just wondering why CCP didn't just destroy the assets you must have purchased. I wonder if you can petition them to just destroy what you purchased and say fair enough let me move on. It is just odd that the numbers never seem to add up. Removing the ISK counteracts the artificial inflation that farmed ISK introduces into the economy.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Luh Windan c) why did the original buyer just not buy a GTC themselves Exactly this. Sounds a bit odd that someone would buy isk for $, and then use the isk to buy a gtc.
Arous Drephius Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:51:00 - [53] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Luh Windan c) why did the original buyer just not buy a GTC themselves Exactly this. Sounds a bit odd that someone would buy isk for $, and then use the isk to buy a gtc. Maybe the ISK he bought illegally was cheaper than buying the GTC's directly.
Luh Windan Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.18 18:49:00 - [54] Edited by: Luh Windan on 18/04/2008 18:50:35 Edited by: Luh Windan on 18/04/2008 18:49:22 Originally by: Arous Drephius Maybe the ISK he bought illegally was cheaper than buying the GTC's directly. But the OP apparently was charging him 1 billion for it - which seems odd that someone who has gone out of their way to save money then having a choice, to either a) buy from the secure market at a reasonable price - or b) go down the road of this allegedly 1 billion isk GTC (the OP stated they had sold a GTC) from someone using an unsecure method, would choose the more expensive option. Smells fishy to me.
mishkof Caldari Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2008.04.18 19:47:00 - [55] Originally by: Rakivic Edited by: Rakivic on 18/04/2008 02:02:06 I used the "proper method" on this website to sell them that is why I am so p.i.s.s.e.d because CCP wont give me my isk back and it was not just for one time code he bought 2X90 day time codes for 550m each which is 1.1b total For all of you kiddies who dont read good he said that he sold 2 90 day GTC for 550...not 1 for 1.1 bil. He should have said 1.1 bil worth of time cards. With that said I will believe the GMs before I believe someone not willing to post the transaction logs...post the transaction logs and that changes. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.18 20:47:00 - [56] Originally by: mishkof Originally by: Rakivic Edited by: Rakivic on 18/04/2008 02:02:06 I used the "proper method" on this website to sell them that is why I am so p.i.s.s.e.d because CCP wont give me my isk back and it was not just for one time code he bought 2X90 day time codes for 550m each which is 1.1b total For all of you kiddies who dont read good he said that he sold 2 90 day GTC for 550...not 1 for 1.1 bil. He should have said 1.1 bil worth of time cards. With that said I will believe the GMs before I believe someone not willing to post the transaction logs...post the transaction logs and that changes. Still does not add up frankly. 1) 550 mil/90 day GTC is way overpriced (generally run from 350 - 400 mil) 2) One account buying two 90 day GTC? Maybe not unheard of but unusual. 3) Why would the guy buying the GTC from the OP use real money to buy ISK and then use the ISK to buy GTC? Would have been cheaper to just buy GTC directly likely or near enough and not worry about breaking the EULA. Not to mention simpler and more straight forward. 4) How does the OP go -1.1 billion? As noted above he'd have needed zero ISK to start, get the 1.1 billion and then buy something for 1.1 billion to put him at zero again (then ISK removal makes it -1.1 billion). And if he bought something for 1.1 billion then he can sell it and get most if not all of it back (perhaps even make a profit depending). So he is not "really" out the 1.1 billion. I agree if someone sells a GTC via the secure system it is bogus for CCP to remove the ISK since the seller has no way of knowing it was from bought ISK. If CCP must remove the ISK then they should issue a new ETC to the player to go sell again (and cancel the previous ETC or ban that player or whatever). The OP's issues however just smell wrong. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.04.18 20:54:00 - [57] Edited by: KISOGOKU on 18/04/2008 20:55:34 I think no need shennanigans for now ,Op might used an alt to petition and GM guard look to any petition from rakivic for this matter probably.Wait and learn Edit:Alt bank characters not uncommon Originally by: Malcanis This. Considering GM Gaurd's post above, this smells more like ISK seller anti-GTC propaganda. I call shennanigans.

CCP Prism X C C P	Posted - 2008.04.18 20:57:00 - [58] So common that one might think we might know about it? Hides his Tinfoil Hat II

Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.18 20:59:00 - [59] Ongoing lack of posts by the OP or link to valid API-generated market transaction logs does not lend credibility to the OP's argument.
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.18 21:08:00 - [60] Anyone who is caught buying isk is going to claim innocence and say they bought GTC's etc to try and scheme the isk back. Fact is, there is a valid method that is 100% safe to buy GTC's and sell GTC's for isk, and that is via the secure method. All other methods do not protect the buyer and seller from fraud (since each side could defraud the other), or ISK reversals if it turns out that the isk was bought from ebay/whatever. So basically, Secure GTC selling Method = 100% safety to all parties.

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