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Delici Feelgood
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Wow, huge smokescreen attempt here. Suddenly talking about the Mittani and problems associated with his candidacy is suddenly taboo eh? Presumably as it simply disfavours your candidate. You'd have been better leaving the thread as was than applying this BS, especially when in your discussion your opening statements, arguments in the thread and even your closing line all refer to specific candidate references with quite a lot of subjectivity. Such hypocrasy, that you now think to try and quell any objections by simply trying to render them invalid to the points being made. Fooling no-one.
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:It's not even about whether or not you think the current CSM did good things or bad things.
I'm not supporting any platform or agenda or changes to the game
Thread says what makes a good candidate.
If performance, good or bad, or what a candidate's platform or agenda is gives no inclination to what kind of candidate they are. Well then I'm sorry, I think you missed the whole idea of what campaigning is about, since it is an open forum for voters to see the various qualities and values a candidate might posses, so if you fail to see that, then heaven help Goon politics.
Interesting point about the BCs however, having now checked the older minutes further. |

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 03:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Delici Feelgood wrote:Wow, huge smokescreen attempt here. Suddenly talking about the Mittani and problems associated with his candidacy is suddenly taboo eh? Presumably as it simply disfavours your candidate. You'd have been better leaving the thread as was than applying this BS, especially when in your discussion your opening statements, arguments in the thread and even your closing line all refer to specific candidate references with quite a lot of subjectivity. Such hypocrasy, that you now think to try and quell any objections by simply trying to render them invalid to the points being made. Fooling no-one. Sidus Sarmiang wrote:It's not even about whether or not you think the current CSM did good things or bad things.
I'm not supporting any platform or agenda or changes to the game Thread says what makes a good candidate. If performance, good or bad, or what a candidate's platform or agenda is gives no inclination to what kind of candidate they are. Well then I'm sorry, I think you missed the whole idea of what campaigning is about, since it is an open forum for voters to see the various qualities and values a candidate might posses, so if you fail to see that, then heaven help Goon politics. Interesting point about the BCs however, having now checked the older minutes further.
I thought about trolling you further, but I actually posted this thread in the spirit of having a productive discussion about what makes a CSM candidate effective. If you really want to discuss The Mittani that much no one is stopping you from posting in his thread or making a new thread about how bad he is, but if you're trying to bring it up in this thread I'd like you to point out exact quotes in this thread where I support him beyond the disclaimer that I am voting for him and that I am a goon.
If you don't understand that I'm talking about candidate effectiveness, which is an objective measure of how many of their goals they see accomplished or pushed forward, and the virtue of a candidate's platform, which is subjective from player to player (meaning I think different things are important than you) you're beating your head against a wall here. You're welcome to discuss it in candidate threads, and you're welcome to make your own new thread, but I can't make it any clearer that this is not what this is for.
Goddamn, there's people in chat channels saying I should just shut up because reasoning with you is hopeless and you'll never get it, but I'm genuinely hoping that maybe you'll contribute something if you can just realize this thread is not about the Mittani and is just about how to create a CSM that can cooperate.
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 03:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:How about this one.
CSM convenes as usual -> CSM talks for hours on end CCP falls asleep -> months later in an unrelated feature that CSM didn't even know was happening CCP fucks up totally -> CCP comes to CSM to go "wtf happened we accidently our game" -> CSM creates perception they fixed issue -> CCP fixes issue -> CCP decides to release feature at later date with better marketing -> idiots perceive CSM has power -> Broken-minded Mittani followers take advantage of that and create perception everyone should keep voting mittani to continue this great power.
Except Mittani said we're getting supercapitals nerfed, then supercapitals got nerfed. Mittani said we're getting time dilation, then we got time dilation. Mittani said we're pushing them to remove the focus from WiS to ships in space and oh hey focus went to ships in space. When people say things, they explain how they're going to push for things, then those things happen, I tend to believe the person did a thing. Then again, I'm not an idiot pubbie that needs to make up fantasies to justify their hatred of CSM6. ps maybe this attitude is why your ilk tends to be completely powerless.
The points you bring forward have merit. However I do want to point out a little flaw in your vieuw.
Supercapital nerf wasn't a Mittens idea, there were more entities that wanted them nerfed. No solo prize for Mittens there.
Time dilation was actually an idea of someone else if I recall right it was Trebor. Yet again a falsly placed plume in Mittens rear.
The outrage from the community about the Nex store and as a result the uproar to do more FiS instead of WiS gave mittens a tool to work with, but alas without the communities uproar he would have been shooting blanks.
So overall the peacock is well versed in adoning himself with other people's feathers (I give him credit for being well versed in that department) but actually idea's from him are rather slim.
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 03:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Quote:
The points you bring forward have merit. However I do want to point out a little flaw in your vieuw.
Supercapital nerf wasn't a Mittens idea, there were more entities that wanted them nerfed. No solo prize for Mittens there.
Time dilation was actually an idea of someone else if I recall right it was Trebor. Yet again a falsly placed plume in Mittens rear.
The outrage from the community about the Nex store and as a result the uproar to do more FiS instead of WiS gave mittens a tool to work with, but alas without the communities uproar he would have been shooting blanks.
So overall the peacock is well versed in adoning himself with other people's feathers (I give him credit for being well versed in that department) but actually idea's from him are rather slim.
Ok, respond to this again only replace Mittens with CSM because you pubbies keep cherrypicking. |

Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
513
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 04:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:This thread is not about Mittens. Really?.. Hmmm. Let us have a look at your original post that started this thread...
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:I'm going to seriouspost a bit. For the record, I'm voting for Mittani. What? What is this?? The second sentence in your entire post puts Mittani directly into the spotlight and sets the tone for your entire post and this thread. Surely this must be coincidental right?...
What I find amusing is you goons running around in some threads trying to get non-goons to vote for him, in other threads you troll alliances who are voting for a candidate no in their alliance, call anyone who is not a goon a pubbie/whatever and then are completely in shock when there are those who do not wish to vote for him. What kind of strategy is this? "Vote for Mittani and I also think you suck!" - goons
At this point the only thing I am looking for is for this election process to be over with already. The propaganda coming from everyone's campaign base is dumb, stinks and mostly lies. Just like real life. 
|

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 04:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Sidus Sarmiang wrote:This thread is not about Mittens. Really?.. Hmmm. Let us have a look at your original post that started this thread... Sidus Sarmiang wrote:I'm going to seriouspost a bit. For the record, I'm voting for Mittani. What? What is this?? The second sentence in your entire post puts Mittani directly into the spotlight and sets the tone for your entire post and this thread. Surely this must be coincidental right?...
My entire post is about how the CSM works together to accomplish the goals and you should vote for candidates that can work with other human beings to get things done. The bit about the Mittani is just a disclaimer so you can't pretend I'm secretly trying to manipulate you when in reality I'm just getting the bit about the fact I'm voting for Mittani out of the way.
The fact I talk about being an effective member of the CSM and your mind automatically equivocates it with Mittani, and then you start raging is p funny though. |

Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
513
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 05:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Keep fishing bro.
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Skye Aurorae
No Bull Ships
185
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 05:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sidus Sarmiang wrote: This isn't rocket science.
If the CSM were rocket science I'd be the most qualified candidate -
Take, for example, my guides to orbital mechanics in Kerbal Space Program
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52HDyqAT0f8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFBftGe_dXQ
Or my map of every known asteroid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONUSP23cmAE
I'm not going to argue against Mittani, but there are no doubt other bits of dead wood in the CSM that can be replaced by a real life expert on space. Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21, so.. Vote for Scott Manley / Skye Aurorae for CSM 7 An Expert in Dealing with Childish Arguments Over Toys. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68506 |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1803
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 14:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Time dilation was actually an idea of someone else if I recall right it was Trebor. Yet again a falsly placed plume in Mittens rear. AFAIK, Time Dilation evolved as a solution one of Team Gridlock's long-term goals (as mentioned in the CSM 5 Winter Summit minutes), "GǪto have predictable, graceful degradation under load (i.e. when a node gets overloaded the subsequent behavior is predictable and known to the user)"
Time Dilation was first publicly mentioned by CCP Veritas at the Large Scale Warfare roundtable at Fanfest 2011. Everyone on the CSM agreed it was an excellent idea for a variety of reasons, which is why it became a "spotlight" issue for us; we wanted to make sure that it got the resources and prioritization it deserved, and banged the drum loudly for it at every possible opportunity.
This kind of thing -- making sure CCP makes good prioritization decisions -- is one of the most important functions of CSM.
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |

Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
91
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 14:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Sidus Sarmiang wrote:This thread is not about Mittens. Really?.. Hmmm. Let us have a look at your original post that started this thread... Sidus Sarmiang wrote:I'm going to seriouspost a bit. For the record, I'm voting for Mittani. What? What is this?? The second sentence in your entire post puts Mittani directly into the spotlight and sets the tone for your entire post and this thread. Surely this must be coincidental right?... My entire post is about how the CSM works together to accomplish the goals and you should vote for candidates that can work with other human beings to get things done. The bit about the Mittani is just a disclaimer so you can't pretend I'm secretly trying to manipulate you when in reality I'm just getting the bit about the fact I'm voting for Mittani out of the way. The fact I talk about being an effective member of the CSM and your mind automatically equivocates it with Mittani, and then you start raging is p funny though.
I actually approve of (most) all of these things you speak of in this thread... You make a MUCH better campaign manager for your candidate than I am doing for mine, The Little Peoples' Choice Skippermonkey :]
Well met sir....if you smell what the little people are cooking... Would you like a kitten? |

Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
391
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 14:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:How about this one.
CSM convenes as usual -> CSM talks for hours on end CCP falls asleep -> months later in an unrelated feature that CSM didn't even know was happening CCP fucks up totally -> CCP comes to CSM to go "wtf happened we accidently our game" -> CSM creates perception they fixed issue -> CCP fixes issue -> CCP decides to release feature at later date with better marketing -> idiots perceive CSM has power -> Broken-minded Mittani followers take advantage of that and create perception everyone should keep voting mittani to continue this great power.
Quoted for truth.
Do you really think that a solvent company would really give the CSM any real power. Illusion of power only. I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |

Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 14:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:A good CSM candidate is a person who pursues changes that are best for the game as a whole and not what is simply best for themselves/corporation/alliance/coalition. Nope. A good CSM member is the one who does what you said. Good CSM member criticizes the dumb ideas, supports good ideas, and generally keeps an eye so that CCP would not accidently kill the game.
A good the CSM candidate is the one who promises more, who tells you he is 100% behind you and your needs, and whatever bullshit that is required to convince you he is your guy. There is not guarantee that a good candidate will become a good CSM member and will keep any of his promises. Like with most politicians, most of the promises are forgotten next day after elections. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |

Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 15:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sidus Sarmiang wrote: Ok, respond to this again only replace Mittens with CSM because you pubbies keep cherrypicking.
You better not start about cherrypicking because you could end up flooded with quotes from your alliance mates of cherrypicking posts. Also the current CSM has it's foundations in the previous 5 CSM's, without their work in the passt the current CSM would be in a far lesser position then they are now. Your alliance and your pets like to claim victories where there are none to claim, simply because all the gruntwork was already done by others.
You yourself write a verbal adoration about your alliance leader and then as woon as someone else uses that same alliance leader as an example why your whole message is flawed it all of a sudden isn't about him anymore but about your alliance as a collective.
You goonswarm members and pets are all alike, you measure everything with any standard you see fit yet when someone does the same like you you all of a suden try to creep into some victim position.
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 15:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: AFAIK, Time Dilation evolved as a solution one of Team Gridlock's long-term goals (as mentioned in the CSM 5 Winter Summit minutes), "GǪto have predictable, graceful degradation under load (i.e. when a node gets overloaded the subsequent behavior is predictable and known to the user)"
Time Dilation was first publicly mentioned by CCP Veritas at the Large Scale Warfare roundtable at Fanfest 2011. Everyone on the CSM agreed it was an excellent idea for a variety of reasons, which is why it became a "spotlight" issue for us; we wanted to make sure that it got the resources and prioritization it deserved, and banged the drum loudly for it at every possible opportunity.
This kind of thing -- making sure CCP makes good prioritization decisions -- is one of the most important functions of CSM.
Still boils down to the same end result. The idea didn't come from the one who tries to wear the feathers of victory. But then again that is mainly what the current chairperson can do, and actually about all he can do while being part of the CSM. Claim victories for other people's idea's and work.
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 20:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Zixie Draco wrote:Sidus Sarmiang wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Sidus Sarmiang wrote:This thread is not about Mittens. Really?.. Hmmm. Let us have a look at your original post that started this thread... Sidus Sarmiang wrote:I'm going to seriouspost a bit. For the record, I'm voting for Mittani. What? What is this?? The second sentence in your entire post puts Mittani directly into the spotlight and sets the tone for your entire post and this thread. Surely this must be coincidental right?... My entire post is about how the CSM works together to accomplish the goals and you should vote for candidates that can work with other human beings to get things done. The bit about the Mittani is just a disclaimer so you can't pretend I'm secretly trying to manipulate you when in reality I'm just getting the bit about the fact I'm voting for Mittani out of the way. The fact I talk about being an effective member of the CSM and your mind automatically equivocates it with Mittani, and then you start raging is p funny though. I actually approve of (most) all of these things you speak of in this thread... You make a MUCH better campaign manager for your candidate than I am doing for mine, The Little Peoples' Choice Skippermonkey :] Well met sir....if you smell what the little people are cooking...
Thank you for your thoughts. I'm not a campaign manager for the Mittani, though, in spite of what people keep saying. Even though there's a lot of raging here that gives the impression of a great deal of controversy, it really doesn't exist. Most of the major candidates already have voters lined up for them, and they're not going to lose their positions if a section of Jita Park dislikes them.
All I am is your average goon who has heard Mittani and some of the other candidates talk about how the CSM actually works. This really isn't a big deal at all, but judging from a lot of the posts people have made for their candidates, they've really missed the point.
The whole goal of this post was so that candidates or people in your position can consider how you'll actually fit into the CSM once you're there, assuming your dude is elected. It also wouldn't be a bad idea to speak with existing CSM members beforehand. It gives you a clearer idea of what the CSM will actually involve, develops lines of communication with existing CSM members that'll be valuable later on, and hell, maybe your guy will even get an endorsement. Most importantly, your guy can actually present his ideas to a current CSM member in a one on one format and get some feedback about how feasible they are or how to present them.
For the rest of the people that keep automatically assuming I'm talking about Mittani specifically whenever I talk about effective CSM and then immediately raging out, lol. Mittani is an effective leader, but the agenda of CSM6 was effective because most of the CSM members were able to work together, so I think they all did fine with one exception. |

Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 20:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
jesus tittyfucking christ what the hell is that post sidus? |

Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 20:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
errr, shouldn't tittyfucking be censored on here? I really don't post that often |

Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
93
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 20:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
You completely fail forums. Would you like a kitten? |

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 21:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ntrails wrote:jesus tittyfucking christ what the hell is that post sidus?
Yeah, I'd better stop. EVE-O is turning me ********. On a brighter note, we did discover that tittyfucking is not censored so something good came of me being dumb enough to post here after all. |

Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
93
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
...forpeetssakes...you're a terrible person Would you like a kitten? |
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