| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sco Orch
   |
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:06:00 -
[1]
I was wondering why everyone is claiming loudly that destroyers suck big time, that they have no real purpose, and that the only build available to them are salvaging builds.
From where I stand (and I'm pretty green) destroyers are the ultimate anti-frigate sized ship. It sports 8 turrets, and has bonii to range and tracking. Maybe a frigate goes faster, but I don't think it can take down multiple frigates as fast.
GO ahead, flame the noob. I just want to know.
|
Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:10:00 -
[2]
I think the issue is that few people want to fly them after they have the skills to make them effective.
 Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
|
Falcon Troy
Caldari
Awesome People Secret Corp
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:24:00 -
[3]
Because nobody really flies frigates into any serious PVP...so they aren't useful. It won't hit interceptors and I'm certain that any AF can take any Destroyer out.
They also lack enough mids and lows to make for good tanks or tacklers so that is also an issue. Destroyers have the guns but not much else...
_____________
Hai. |
LetsDoThis
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:31:00 -
[4]
Yeah as others have said they're basically AF DPS with no tank and the speed and signature radius of a cruiser.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/04/2008 21:34:41
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/04/2008 21:34:17
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/04/2008 21:33:48
Originally by: Falcon Troy
Because nobody really flies frigates into any serious PVP...so they aren't useful. It won't hit interceptors and I'm certain that any AF can take any Destroyer out.
They also lack enough mids and lows to make for good tanks or tacklers so that is also an issue. Destroyers have the guns but not much else...
Well, to be honest, the less tanked AFs would struggle versus a good Thrasher setup - can go both ways really.
Destroyers are more agile and comparably fast as AFs, what are you all talking about?
Also, tracking IS enough to hit interceptors. Train Destroyers V.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tigorl Dunmau
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tigorl Dunmau on 19/04/2008 21:45:29
They are great for high sec PvE, they are not all that great for PvP which is for most hardcore people all that matters.
|
Corstaad
Minmatar
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:40:00 -
[7]
Last decent AF fight I got into with my trasher was against a shield boosted Medium Extended Jag. I died with him in 20% hull, so now with heat and if I trained Dessie V I'd of smoked him. I don't have that much xp with the arty setups but I'm pretty sure if you time your alpha right you could one volley the ceptor enough to leave atleast.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 21:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tigorl Dunmau
They are great for PvE, they are not all that great for PvP which is for most hardcore people all that matters.
Because you see interceptors in PvE.
Srsly.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Sambo Stone
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 23:46:00 -
[9]
well then, isn't this what you call a broken ship? I thought that it's purpose was to take out interceptors and even assault frigates, but both of them can take it out. What would it take to make this class worthwhile then? Faster rate of fire? Less signature? Even more guns?
I just love the concept of the destroyer. It's the anti tackler (I think). But I truly find it hard to believe that a ship made with one purpose in mind still fails at it.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 23:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sambo Stone
well then, isn't this what you call a broken ship? I thought that it's purpose was to take out interceptors and even assault frigates, but both of them can take it out. What would it take to make this class worthwhile then? Faster rate of fire? Less signature? Even more guns?
Class IS worthwhile, even for contributing solid DPS at low cost, and is worthwhile for anti frigate / anti-ceptor (unless they're extremely pimped!) or even vs some AFs.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 00:16:00 -
[11]
A very similar topic came up not too long ago, which inspired me to make a thread about it, where I boosted the destroyers a little and made them more distinguished between the races.
--------
Ideas for:
Mining
Clouds
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 00:55:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/04/2008 00:56:01
Originally by: Abrazzar
A very similar topic came up not too long ago, which inspired me to make a thread about it, where I boosted the destroyers a little and made them more distinguished between the races.
But destroyers are already different for all the races and while giving them +1 slot and more fittings would be nice (and utterly obsolete the AF in their sorry state), they all have a distinct flavour.
Also, destroyers are gunships (geared for long-range guns mostly, although some AC Thrasher fits do make sense), and with the quite insane 50% tracking at Destroyers V (which is really needed to make them shine) they do a very nice job at shooting fast things and frigates in general (and contribute noticeably more DPS vs larger ships) at very little cost.
Drastically changing partially working ships (well, they all lack a slot imo and some could use fitting love, but nothing drastic) into something totally different is not a good idea.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Black-Out
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 01:11:00 -
[13]
A Cormorant setup right has no trouble takeing on a Gistii-B crow moveing at 12km/sec. If that same cormorant runs into pretty much any T1 cruiser it's dies quickly.
Destroyers can be made to fight quite well. But they suffer from a very narrow selection of targets they can take on. There is also the stigma of "clueless newbi ship" they must deal with.
|
Burukt Vri'ra
Locus Industries
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 01:52:00 -
[14]
A once corp-mate of mine designed a nice Cormorant, which I later implemented. It was a ridiculous setup that turned out to be very effective against Intys. The damn thing could snipe at 100km with T2 guns and tracking comps, and if loaded with antimatter could (and did) paste interceptors at close range.
I actually really like them as a class, just don't have much use for them on a day-to-day basis.
-----------------
What? I just work here. |
Druadan
Aristotle Enterprises
Synchr0nicity
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 02:00:00 -
[15]
I'd like to see them drop an eve-equivalent of depth-charges to find cloaked ships.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Sco Orch
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 02:16:00 -
[16]
Ok, so from what I understand, destroyers are viable, just not used. Their main problem seems to be the fact that they die quickly, because everyone seems to agree that they accomplish their job of killing frigate sized targets well.
If they're not used to kill interceptors and AFs, then what is? From reading the forums I almost have a feeling that intys are invulnerable because no one can hit them 
|
RogueWing
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 02:17:00 -
[17]
They used to be REALLY effective against inty's.
After the boost in hitpoints in one of the prior patches, they are no longer quite so well. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE destroyers, and have flown quite a few in my time. But since the hitpoints on all the ships went up, destroyers just don't have the damage to smack down intys like they used to.
If goons are giving you "respect" on CAOD, you pretty much know what you just did was a pile of ****. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 02:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sco Orch
From reading the forums I almost have a feeling that intys are invulnerable because no one can hit them
The feeling is false 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Opertone
Caldari
Simtech Productions
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 03:44:00 -
[19]
destroyes, cormorant are perfect anti interceptor ships
they come very handy as the support for the battleships, cormorants can snipe PODs, frigate shuttles and drones very well
in gang combat the destroyers do not get primary because they are not percieved as a threat
i wish the destroyers had more tank and smaller signature...
every other ship can kill a destroyer in one-two volleys, this includes cruisers and battleships
catalysts are very good suicide gankers, cheap and do 300 DPS for 2 mill isk
destroyers 5 unlocks the interdictors, which are rather fast and usefull
all in all a destroyer is a oversized frigate with decent tracking, it protects big ships against small fast moving targets
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Shadow Forces Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 03:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Falcon Troy
It won't hit interceptors
Not only will a well set up destroyer hit interceptors, but it will hit 10+ km/s interceptors with good damage.
|
demonfurbie
Minmatar
Covert-Nexus
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 05:12:00 -
[21]
Edited by: demonfurbie on 20/04/2008 05:11:53
dessys in action
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Shadow Forces Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 05:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: demonfurbie
Edited by: demonfurbie on 20/04/2008 05:11:53
dessys in action
My main character is on that one. (And yes, I'm posting while in gang still.)
This one wasn't exactly impressing. You should have linked the engagement with POD-U and all those battleships we killed.
|
Tiberius Decius
Capital Bombardment
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 07:15:00 -
[23]
They need the signature radius halved or so. That would make them better straight up. The problem is they take pretty much full damage from cruiser sized weapons. Which in most cases is enough to instapop them.
Along with not having many slots to fit a tank. If you really want to fly around in dessies, train up for interdictors. Everyone will love you then too, and they can sometimes take out cruisers (Caracal etc)
|
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 11:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sco Orch
I was wondering why everyone is claiming loudly that destroyers suck big time
Basically the reason for this is they have frigate-class hitpoints, without the mobility and low signature radius of a frigate, so they pop very quickly to cruiser or battlecruiser fire, and would probably not be much of a problem for battleships to take out (with drones even if the main batteries couldn't do much).
They are exceptionally good at taking out frigates, though. And as was said above, they do track interceptors. The issue is that they're rather niche, because if they come up against anything larger that wants them dead and is in a position to fire on them, they won't last very long. That said, for new player in e.g. empire wars they can be pretty awesome, as you can get over 200DPS out of them with relatively low skills (>300 if you want to max them out), so a handful of month-old players in destroyers can really lay down the hurt when supporting bigger ships. (Though this somewhat relies on the enemy not going for the destroyers first, which would be the sensible option).
You can also set them up for pretty reasonable sniping work too, if you want to take down a gatecamp - the alpha strike from a few destroyers, especially Thrashers is very mean and can instapop anything smaller than a cruiser at over 50km. Even cruisers would probably only take two or three volleys (so under 10 seconds) to go down, before the destroyers warp away. Very effective when used in the right situations. Using them to snipe at drones, if the enemy is using lots of Gallente ships, can be very handy too, as they can stand off the fight and warp out if targeted (and should an interceptor attempt to lock one down, the other destroyers should be able to pop it pretty quick).
So no flames for you, I'm afraid - you're right that the destroyers are very good as anti-frigate ships. One of the reasons they're perhaps not as widely used as you might expect is that any frigate with a web on it is pretty much dead - so Minmatar recons are awesome against frigates, and also work well against other targets without being ridiculously fragile. To a lesser extent, a Curse can also completely cripple a frigate's cap with a medium neut at >30km => no more MWD, and the frigate can be caught and killed by jsut about anything. And once again, a Curse has much more utility against larger ships as well as being more survivable than a destroyer.
And finally, frigates don't generally pose a massive threat to fleets of larger ships. With that in mind, while an awesome frigate-killing machine would be nice, having a mediocre frigate-killing ability is generally enough, and so the guy in a destroyer would probably contribute more to the gang overall by flying a different class of ship. So that's probably why they're not used outside of specific situations.
|
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 12:03:00 -
[25]
I regularly fly a 8x 125mm T1 rail Catalyst, with target painter and mag stabs in the lows.
You'd be very surprised how easily you chew up most inties even with your MWD on you can track them.
Its also awesome for adding DPS support and regularly outscores cruisers and some battlecruisers in terms of total damage done to targets.
The problem is that sadly they are too easy to hit, and are impossible to fit a decent tank - even with T2 resists on the Eris it is still very easily killed. If you accept your almost certain death, fit it cheaply and dont play like a ***** then you can have a LOT of fun in destroyers.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |