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Buxaroo
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.22 16:14:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 22/04/2008 15:56:08
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 22/04/2008 15:55:34
Originally by: Shanzem
Originally by: Buxaroo
This is a great thread dude. Bookmarking this for future reference. Can't watch these videos at work (damn IT blocking youtube grr).
Anytime science is celebrated it is a good thing considering how scientific ignorance is on the trend in our world 
You have no idea how true that is 
I think he may be talking about how religious zelots like to throw hypothetical faith based reasoning at scientifc reasoning without basis for argument.
At least that is how I interpreted it.
Slade
Yes I meant the zealot angle mainly. But there is also a section of people who are generally interested in these things but they are very uneducated about science and the scientific method. Carl Sagan had a very good story on this subject in his book "Demon Haunted World" (can't remember the full title).
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.04.22 16:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Anytime science is celebrated it is a good thing considering how scientific ignorance is on the trend in our world
You have no idea how true that is
I think he may be talking about how religious zelots like to throw hypothetical faith based reasoning at scientifc reasoning without basis for argument.
At least that is how I interpreted it.
Slade
Scientific ignorance is rampant. Religion often does not help as it causes people to not bother to seek answers they think they already know but for many they just can't be arsed to wrap their heads around complex subjects. A particular gripe of mine is the lack of scientific understanding among journalists. Presumably if they are writing on a topic they should know enough to write accurately about it. Nearly always however mainstream media just does not get it right and opts for sensationalism over accuracy. Since this is one of the few means an uninformed public gets some scientific knowledge it actually perpetuates ignorance. 
--------------------------------------------------
"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Kirjava
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.04.22 16:51:00 -
[33]
Yes, Prime Example - The Daily Mail
"China seeks to make own sun!!" - In big red text.
A few lines in one realises that China has taken interest in investing in Fusion research.....
While on the matter, I am trying to convince my mother that the Daily Mail is a tabloid - it is isn't it?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. |
EvilPhog
Amarr
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.04.22 16:53:00 -
[34]
Not my type of science but cool. :)
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.04.22 17:03:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Shanzem
Originally by: kor anon
I love the laws of probability probably my favorite. Eg. Its possible to walk through a wall, yet very very unlikely. Or better yet theres a chance you can spontaniously teleport. Physics A level is fun (sometimes)
Very, i think the most used phrase could sum that up nicely "that wouldn't of happened if you was not looking at it" and its true the more physical observers the more like something is to happen.
So, taken to its extreme:
In an infinite universe someone (or something) is walking through walls or teleporting all the time. Granted it is staggeringly unlikely you or I will ever see it but as an occurrence on a universal scale it should be happening all the time. 
Personally I am amazed scientists have not studied quantum sock entanglement in clothes driers which routinely send one of your socks into another dimension.
My favorite however is the Buttered Cat Array as a means of cheap, renewable energy.
We all know that cats land on their feet.
We also all know that if you drop buttered toast it invariably lands buttered side down.
So, strap a piece of buttered toast to a cat's back and drop it.
The cat will float and spin as it alternates between trying to land feet down and buttered side down. Wrap some wire around them and put them in a magnetic field and voila! Free energy (not counting cost of toast, butter and cat chow).
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Kirjava
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.04.22 17:09:00 -
[36]
Like this?
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Kyrall
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.22 17:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
My favorite however is the Buttered Cat Array as a means of cheap, renewable energy.
We all know that cats land on their feet.
We also all know that if you drop buttered toast it invariably lands buttered side down.
So, strap a piece of buttered toast to a cat's back and drop it.
The cat will float and spin as it alternates between trying to land feet down and buttered side down. Wrap some wire around them and put them in a magnetic field and voila! Free energy (not counting cost of toast, butter and cat chow).
I'm pretty sure that'll just leave you with a cat lying on it's side.
Or at the very least a highly annoyed, buttered cat, which I can assure you is NOT something you want.  |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.04.22 17:52:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 22/04/2008 17:53:48
Originally by: Kyrall
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
My favorite however is the Buttered Cat Array as a means of cheap, renewable energy.
We all know that cats land on their feet.
We also all know that if you drop buttered toast it invariably lands buttered side down.
So, strap a piece of buttered toast to a cat's back and drop it.
The cat will float and spin as it alternates between trying to land feet down and buttered side down. Wrap some wire around them and put them in a magnetic field and voila! Free energy (not counting cost of toast, butter and cat chow).
I'm pretty sure that'll just leave you with a cat lying on it's side.
Nah, turns out the feline/toast coefficient versus gravity is variable thus ensuring constant rotation.
Quote:
Or at the very least a highly annoyed, buttered cat, which I can assure you is NOT something you want.
Every new technology has its drawbacks and keeping the skin attached to the workers tending the cats seems to be one here. They believe technology can answer this though by distracting the cats by use of projecting laser spots on nearby walls. So far it seems to work but there is a minute till the laser engages the cat where the workers are still in mortal jeopardy.
The other problem is the cats can only be fooled into volunteering for this once. After that getting them to cooperate is problematic. It may be they figure out fusion energy before sorting that one out.
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Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 18:08:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Shanzem on 22/04/2008 18:18:54
Originally by: Kirjava
Like this?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
That there is pure win. lmao. |
Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 18:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Shanzem
Originally by: kor anon
I love the laws of probability probably my favorite. Eg. Its possible to walk through a wall, yet very very unlikely. Or better yet theres a chance you can spontaniously teleport. Physics A level is fun (sometimes)
Very, i think the most used phrase could sum that up nicely "that wouldn't of happened if you was not looking at it" and its true the more physical observers the more like something is to happen.
So, taken to its extreme:
In an infinite universe someone (or something) is walking through walls or teleporting all the time. Granted it is staggeringly unlikely you or I will ever see it but as an occurrence on a universal scale it should be happening all the time.
Personally I am amazed scientists have not studied quantum sock entanglement in clothes driers which routinely send one of your socks into another dimension.
My favorite however is the Buttered Cat Array as a means of cheap, renewable energy.
We all know that cats land on their feet.
We also all know that if you drop buttered toast it invariably lands buttered side down.
So, strap a piece of buttered toast to a cat's back and drop it.
The cat will float and spin as it alternates between trying to land feet down and buttered side down. Wrap some wire around them and put them in a magnetic field and voila! Free energy (not counting cost of toast, butter and cat chow).
So thats were my socks go!, but jamie hyneman told me to blame Quantum entanglement!
Secondly, Butted cat array!!!!!
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:41:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kirjava
Like this?
Bwahahaha!
Yep!
It seems the hamsters turned off my enable images so the first time I saw your post all I saw was, "Like this?" and figured you forgot something. Makes more sense now.
Speaking of hamsters that reminds me. Can someone drag CCP into this thread? I think the Buttered Cat Array would be a great replacement for their hamsters!
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Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 18:43:00 -
[42]
Quote:
In an infinite universe someone (or something) is walking through walls or teleporting all the time. Granted it is staggeringly unlikely you or I will ever see it but as an occurrence on a universal scale it should be happening all the time.
Depends, we have Infinite Universe but we should in theory have multiple dimensions, Each dimension could or might have different physical rules.
And with our physical universe rules with have a high probability of NOT teleporting.
How ever we have high probability of others areas,
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Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 18:53:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Anytime science is celebrated it is a good thing considering how scientific ignorance is on the trend in our world
You have no idea how true that is
I think he may be talking about how religious zelots like to throw hypothetical faith based reasoning at scientifc reasoning without basis for argument.
At least that is how I interpreted it.
Slade
Scientific ignorance is rampant. Religion often does not help as it causes people to not bother to seek answers they think they already know but for many they just can't be arsed to wrap their heads around complex subjects. A particular gripe of mine is the lack of scientific understanding among journalists. Presumably if they are writing on a topic they should know enough to write accurately about it. Nearly always however mainstream media just does not get it right and opts for sensationalism over accuracy. Since this is one of the few means an uninformed public gets some scientific knowledge it actually perpetuates ignorance.
The reason i Said my comment, and not turn on religion is because i didn't want to turn this into a flame fest of religious hate,But saying that they aren't favored in my book ESPECIALLY intelligent design and Creationism.
Been said you must understand i guess that not everyone has an interest of science and engineering, all be it those people usually aren't the people that help there society.
Ignorance to understand there for choosing a deity to explain Supernatural or in some peoples mind unexplainable phenomenon.
I am by no standard a genius or know it all ... but i know enough to get reformed and pickup a book. We live in the information age its a shame some people have not quite clicked onto what that means. |
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 18:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shanzem
Depends, we have Infinite Universe but we should in theory have multiple dimensions, Each dimension could or might have different physical rules.
And with our physical universe rules with have a high probability of NOT teleporting.
How ever we have high probability of others areas,
As long as the probability is not zero then in any infinite set that probability should occur an infinite number of times.
|
Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 19:01:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Shanzem
Depends, we have Infinite Universe but we should in theory have multiple dimensions, Each dimension could or might have different physical rules.
And with our physical universe rules with have a high probability of NOT teleporting.
How ever we have high probability of others areas,
As long as the probability is not zero then in any infinite set that probability should occur an infinite number of times.
We are talking the same probability of a Boltzmann brain here. its in the realms of impossibility i can see were you are coming from but this is boarding philosophy here.
But couldn't one argue that in this instance that if the universe is infinite, there is a Certainly a chance of it happening but there such a remote possibility it may never happen in humanity's existence.
-------------------------------------------
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Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 19:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Shanzem
Ignorance to understand there for choosing a deity to explain Supernatural or in some peoples mind unexplainable phenomenon.
I am by no standard a genius or know it all ... but i know enough to get reformed and pickup a book. We live in the information age its a shame some people have not quite clicked onto what that means.
In the end I think science prevails simply because it is so hard to deny. For a long time people refused to believe the world was a sphere (not to mention not the center of the universe) but eventually there is just no getting around it.
To be sure some things are not so clearly shown. Evolution has scads of evidence to support it but taken in whole to see it at work is a fair bit of study even for just the broad strokes. As such people can more easily ignore it where a round earth can be discerned from a trip in an airplane, tall building, viewing a ship on the horizon from a beach (although people had done that for ages and never figured it out) or watching an eclipse. Hard to ignore that stuff.
--------------------------------------------------
"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 19:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Shanzem
We are talking the same probability of a Boltzmann brain here. its in the realms of impossibility i can see were you are coming from but this is boarding philosophy here.
But couldn't one argue that in this instance that if the universe is infinite, there is a Certainly a chance of it happening but there such a remote possibility it may never happen in humanity's existence.
Working with infinite sets is not something I am good at. They work somewhat differently than "normal" math (e.g. one half of infinity = infinity).
I see no reason why the distribution of occurrences needs to be smooth. In any random set you'd expect "clumping" or streaks. In an infinite universe on an infinite timescale it may well be eons could pass before it occurs and then it occurs a million times.
Mostly though I would expect it is occurring all the time somewhere. The thing is "somewhere" in an infinite universe is pretty big. The chances of you or me observing it are so insanely small as to be practically (but not quite) zero.
--------------------------------------------------
"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
|
Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 19:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
In the end I think science prevails simply because it is so hard to deny. For a long time people refused to believe the world was a sphere (not to mention not the center of the universe) but eventually there is just no getting around it.
To be sure some things are not so clearly shown. Evolution has scads of evidence to support it but taken in whole to see it at work is a fair bit of study even for just the broad strokes. As such people can more easily ignore it where a round earth can be discerned from a trip in an airplane, tall building, viewing a ship on the horizon from a beach (although people had done that for ages and never figured it out) or watching an eclipse. Hard to ignore that stuff.
Agreed, The day religion has people cowering in a corner, dividing humanity and dividing those who wish to help them its an issue, Religion no longer serves the VERY propose it has been there for, it can no longer do the job expected of it.
Science isn't causing the problems in this world its curing them Religion on the other hand is. and thats an issue that needs to be resolved.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Shanzem
...Religion no longer serves the VERY propose it has been there for, it can no longer do the job expected of it.
Science isn't causing the problems in this world its curing them Religion on the other hand is. and thats an issue that needs to be resolved.
Well, science cannot answer all questions. There is room for philosophy and morality and ethics and such that (idealized) religion can seek to tackle. Sadly religion often gets in its own way but it can deal with questions you would never find an answer to in a lab. Those questions can also be tackled outside of a religious context of course but few people I know ever bother and all they get in the morality realm is their local church/temple/whatever or a friend kicking their ass.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 19:33:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 22/04/2008 19:35:35
Originally by: Kirjava
Like this?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Can I get another link? For some reason nothing is showing up. Never mind it showed up when I previewed my post, LMAO how did that happen?
Originally by: Shanzem
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
In the end I think science prevails simply because it is so hard to deny. For a long time people refused to believe the world was a sphere (not to mention not the center of the universe) but eventually there is just no getting around it.
To be sure some things are not so clearly shown. Evolution has scads of evidence to support it but taken in whole to see it at work is a fair bit of study even for just the broad strokes. As such people can more easily ignore it where a round earth can be discerned from a trip in an airplane, tall building, viewing a ship on the horizon from a beach (although people had done that for ages and never figured it out) or watching an eclipse. Hard to ignore that stuff.
Agreed, The day religion has people cowering in a corner, dividing humanity and dividing those who wish to help them its an issue, Religion no longer serves the VERY propose it has been there for, it can no longer do the job expected of it.
Science isn't causing the problems in this world its curing them Religion on the other hand is. and thats an issue that needs to be resolved.
That is why I threw that link to that to the movie earlier. I think that that they did a pretty good job on showing how things could be if most would take a much wider view then they currently do. If you are open to any type of religious talk then I would ask if you all could check it out. I am agnostic and really like the topics they covered. They brought in some of the preeminent physicists, preeminent theists, and other scientists to discuss some of the topics that have been brought up in the thread .
I for one find a lot of what you all are talking about way over my head. I am a physiologist/biomechanist so the more far out physics topics blow my mind. That is why I am keeping up with this. I like trying to keep up with the more obscure scientific topics even if I do quite grasp them.
I just finished watching a documentary on The History channel where a group of scientists are using neutrinos and ice in Antarctica to trace them back to their origin to map out the far reaches of the Universe. That blew my mind also!!!
Catch yall Later
Slade
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Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 20:22:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Shanzem on 22/04/2008 20:26:44
Hehe Slade Trillgon what kind of work do you do? i have applied for a pathologist (Trainee lab assistant) i have also applied for a microbiologist lab assistant,
What i am really interested in is the hacking DNA its something i going to have to give ago, do you know if the UK has laws on someone playing god ? (i use that term loosely)
I for one cannot wait to get my hands on a tool that can print DNA, Invention in this area
is going to be spontaneous. a substance that i can play with thats genetic its living breathing, eating.. yet controlled mine to mold and shape.. to a desirable form.
sorry but that area is far more imporatant then any other science in my eyes.
that there is the very building blocks of who we are, its life itself.. its beautiful thing.
Imagine building a 16 legged spider and what it grow and slowly learn how to use it legs to move. or a Art piece thats genetic and living thats interacts with you. eats the food you give it, changes color and shape.. also ways changing and looking at a new perspective.
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Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 20:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shanzem
I for one cannot wait to get my hands on a tool that can print DNA, Invention in this area
is going to be spontaneous. a substance that i can play with thats genetic its living breathing, eating.. yet controlled mine to mold and shape.. to a desirable form.
Anyone else having visions of a mad scientist inventing the world ending Gray Goo?
|
Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 20:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Shanzem
I for one cannot wait to get my hands on a tool that can print DNA, Invention in this area
is going to be spontaneous. a substance that i can play with thats genetic its living breathing, eating.. yet controlled mine to mold and shape.. to a desirable form.
Anyone else having visions of a mad scientist inventing the world ending Gray Goo?
Watch the video i posted on programming DNA and you will see what i mean?
Whats wrong with the Grey goo  whats it done to you  |
Nicholas Barker
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 21:42:00 -
[54]
this might not count, but i totally love paradoxes, especially time paradoxes. Almost any movie that involves time travel that really gets ****** up i find really god damn interesting. |
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 21:52:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 22/04/2008 21:54:03
Originally by: Nicholas Barker
this might not count, but i totally love paradoxes, especially time paradoxes. Almost any movie that involves time travel that really gets ****** up i find really god damn interesting.
This will sound crazy but some notable physicist (I forget who) opined that the very best movie for getting time travel and its issues largely correct was Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. I agree too. Goofy as the movie was they handled time travel really well with all its attendant paradoxes.
EDIT: I like them too...good mind bending fun. Note my sig below. 
|
Nicholas Barker
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 21:58:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 22/04/2008 21:54:03
Originally by: Nicholas Barker
this might not count, but i totally love paradoxes, especially time paradoxes. Almost any movie that involves time travel that really gets ****** up i find really god damn interesting.
This will sound crazy but some notable physicist (I forget who) opined that the very best movie for getting time travel and its issues largely correct was Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. I agree too. Goofy as the movie was they handled time travel really well with all its attendant paradoxes.
EDIT: I like them too...good mind bending fun. Note my sig below.
80s/90s metal + time travel I'M GOING TO EXPLODE |
F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 22:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 22/04/2008 17:53:48
Originally by: Kyrall
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
My favorite however is the Buttered Cat Array as a means of cheap, renewable energy.
We all know that cats land on their feet.
We also all know that if you drop buttered toast it invariably lands buttered side down.
So, strap a piece of buttered toast to a cat's back and drop it.
The cat will float and spin as it alternates between trying to land feet down and buttered side down. Wrap some wire around them and put them in a magnetic field and voila! Free energy (not counting cost of toast, butter and cat chow).
I'm pretty sure that'll just leave you with a cat lying on it's side.
Nah, turns out the feline/toast coefficient versus gravity is variable thus ensuring constant rotation.
Quote:
Or at the very least a highly annoyed, buttered cat, which I can assure you is NOT something you want.
Every new technology has its drawbacks and keeping the skin attached to the workers tending the cats seems to be one here. They believe technology can answer this though by distracting the cats by use of projecting laser spots on nearby walls. So far it seems to work but there is a minute till the laser engages the cat where the workers are still in mortal jeopardy.
The other problem is the cats can only be fooled into volunteering for this once. After that getting them to cooperate is problematic. It may be they figure out fusion energy before sorting that one out.
Well, there's those suits that dog handlers use, the ones who train them to attack and kill/subdue a foe. Those are designed to fend off dog teeth, so cat claws shouldn't post much of a problem.
Alternatively, you can just use something other than 1st level wizards or NPC commoners in the labs. |
Shanzem
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.04.22 22:56:00 -
[58]
Originally by: F'nog
Alternatively, you can just use something other than 1st level wizards or NPC commoners in the labs.
 F`nog wtf? |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
|
Posted - 2008.04.23 00:22:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 23/04/2008 00:23:03
Originally by: Shanzem
Edited by: Shanzem on 22/04/2008 20:26:44
Hehe Slade Trillgon what kind of work do you do? i have applied for a pathologist (Trainee lab assistant) i have also applied for a microbiologist lab assistant,
What i am really interested in is the hacking DNA its something i going to have to give ago, do you know if the UK has laws on someone playing god ? (i use that term loosely)
I for one cannot wait to get my hands on a tool that can print DNA, Invention in this area
is going to be spontaneous. a substance that i can play with thats genetic its living breathing, eating.. yet controlled mine to mold and shape.. to a desirable form.
sorry but that area is far more imporatant then any other science in my eyes.
that there is the very building blocks of who we are, its life itself.. its beautiful thing.
Imagine building a 16 legged spider and what it grow and slowly learn how to use it legs to move. or a Art piece thats genetic and living thats interacts with you. eats the food you give it, changes color and shape.. also ways changing and looking at a new perspective.
Good Stuffs!!!
I am more on the lines of the Jocks right now. I started out as a rehab specialist working with athletes, hence the biomechanics. Two years ago I went for an advaaced degree in Exercise Physiology. So most heart, lung, muscle physiologies and nutrient break down and absorbtion.
I have a pretty good book on the human Genome. I can not think of the author at this point. The next time I go to storage I will open up the box of text books. As it has to do with genetic studies around me, I am from the states so we are pretty much in last place in the genetic engineering studies race We are continuously fighting the religious right to allow something as "simple" using stem cells, go figure
If you want more info I can catch you later, I am off to band practice. We have a show in 2 nights and we have two more songs to work out.
Fly Safe All
Slade
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Brea Lafail
|
Posted - 2008.04.23 02:43:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
In the end I think science prevails simply because it is so hard to deny. For a long time people refused to believe the world was a sphere (not to mention not the center of the universe) but eventually there is just no getting around it.
I've been told (by someone with a PhD in such matters) that the whole "Ze world is flat, heretic!" thing is a myth. Been a long time since I took that class, but as I recall, some dude said it's flat and got laughed at for it because, as you mentioned, you can clearly see a ship's mast disappear over the horizon.
Also, wasn't is a monk or something that came up with the "whole earth goes around the sun" thing (while working on church-sponsored research)?
As for ignorant journalists, how long do you expect them to spend in school? They already need to learn how to write a story that people will bother reading to the end, how to take half-decent photos, how to present a story on camera, how to find something to write about in the first place... |
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