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New POS Structure: Jump Clone Vat Bay

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Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:14:00 - [1] A POS structure that consumes both Ozone and Heavy Water, and maybe also a new POS good: Bio-gel. It will be reasonably expensive to deploy and maintain, but not so much that it becomes only impractical or uneconomical. Comments? Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Twin blade Minmatar The Triangle	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:05:00 - [2] I would love this but i think it was not added for a reason to stop people jumping all over there own pos netowrd when one is under attack. Death is great rember where all dying to get there.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Twin blade I would love this but i think it was not added for a reason to stop people jumping all over there own pos netowrd when one is under attack. you can only clone jump once per day... so really I cant see such a thing happening. I tend to like the idea. Biogel should be consumed per clone jump. Not sure if it should be a sovereignty only type of deal. I dont see any real strategic point of it like a cyno jammer or system scanner.
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:19:00 - [4] I might even use POSes if they had this. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.22 03:00:00 - [5] Well I dont think Sov should be required, but additionally a JC Array may have only a limited number of slots each - say only 5 JCs can be supported per Array Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.22 10:44:00 - [6] Or have different size arrays: Micro Clone Vat Array - 5 Clones Small Clone Vat Array - 10 Clones Medium Clone Vat Array - 20 Clones Large Clone Vat Array - 40 Clones
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:40:00 - [7] This is a great idea. Nix on the needing sovereignty though, I would like for empire and low-sec corps to benefit from this as well. Question: Where does the clone jump too? Last I checked, you don't "dock" in a POS. Would you just be floating in a pod next to your POS clone vat? -- Don't harsh my mellow
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Wannabehero Question: Where does the clone jump too? Last I checked, you don't "dock" in a POS. Would you just be floating in a pod next to your POS clone vat? Yep, just like Supercapital Clone Vats Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Anubis Xian Originally by: Wannabehero Question: Where does the clone jump too? Last I checked, you don't "dock" in a POS. Would you just be floating in a pod next to your POS clone vat? Yep, just like Supercapital Clone Vats hmmm ya I would have said this also. I wonder how that works... do you just show up as a pod next to the mom or titan?
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:38:00 - [10] Unless it was recently changed...yes
Xavia Cameron Caldari Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.23 02:39:00 - [11] The only flaw with this, and it is a rather painful flaw, is that you cannot clone jump from a supercap. Meaning if you want a jump clone in a POS, you'd have to delete then re-install one every time; also defeating the ability to use implants.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.23 04:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Xavia Cameron The only flaw with this, and it is a rather painful flaw, is that you cannot clone jump from a supercap. Meaning if you want a jump clone in a POS, you'd have to delete then re-install one every time; also defeating the ability to use implants. Sorry dont follow you, how so?
Xavia Cameron Caldari Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.23 04:25:00 - [13] A major flaw with SC Clone vats is that they do not allow you to clone jump AWAY from them. This means the only way to get a clone in there is to install a fresh, empty JC. Once you have jumped to it, this new clone has no way to get back IN the vat bay. You must fly to your nearest other JC and destroy it in order to gain a new JC slot, then instal a new, fresh JC. This re-installing means A) They are VERY time consuming to use. B) No implants in the clone.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.23 04:34:00 - [14] Hmm, this sounds to me to be a design flaw by CCP, surely if that is the case, you should be able to get to within 3000m of the capital ship, right click on it to use JC Vat, which would in turn bring up a list of installed JCs, the pilot then selects the JC he wants to jump too, and this drops him in that statio, the clone he leaves behind "disappears" back into the capital ship. Should also work for the POS JC array the same way. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.04.23 11:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Xavia Cameron Edited by: Xavia Cameron on 23/04/2008 04:26:39 A major flaw with SC Clone vats is that they do not allow you to clone jump AWAY from them. Clarification: You cannot use a Supercap to jump to a different JC. Only to jump to the super cap from a different JC. This means the only way to get a clone in there is to install a fresh, empty JC. Once you have jumped to it, this new clone has no way to get back IN the vat bay. You must fly to your nearest other JC and destroy it in order to gain a new JC slot, then instal a new, fresh JC. This re-installing means A) They are VERY time consuming to use. B) No implants in the clone. I would say this limitation would be a necesary limit on the POS module and make it balanced that way (allowing greater number of clones). You can use a POS clone bay to get to the POS, but you need a ship (or clone jump the traditional way) to get away. Thus you pay with implants for your convenience. I don't think this would be a bad thing. As such the POS module would need a limitation to make it balanced (it is readily available and easy to maintan). I like this idea. Would make the POS feel more a home in space instead of the big gun protected hangar/container it is today. --- SIG --- Goumindong for CSM.
Nemtar Nataal Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:23:00 - [16] Honestly, i like the module as a alternative to big and expensive super caps to make 00 life more affordable for small corps, however...if this idear goes threw.... (short summery - The intention is to have POS's become real personal owned stations would properly include most of the normal Outpost features) ...Anyway if this change goes threw it will make outposts kind of redundent, to implement a structure like this you would properly have to boost outposts to compensate for the isk involved between the 2 kind of setups. Yes the station would only be avalible for a corp and not a alliance but i still think it will be pushing it a bit.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Nemtar Nataal Honestly, i like the module as a alternative to big and expensive super caps to make 00 life more affordable for small corps, however...if this idear goes threw.... (short summery - The intention is to have POS's become real personal owned stations would properly include most of the normal Outpost features) ...Anyway if this change goes threw it will make outposts kind of redundent, to implement a structure like this you would properly have to boost outposts to compensate for the isk involved between the 2 kind of setups. Yes the station would only be avalible for a corp and not a alliance but i still think it will be pushing it a bit. Yes i know that one. Probably the longest running thread in this forum. Yeah I would like to see it implemented myself, but until then a POS JC array would really be a blessing for small corps who cannot afford to field capital ships. It will also be very useful for large alliances as well as it means the POS can be a true base of operations during war time, with pilots jumping to preassigned POSes at the front line, getting into thier ships and heading to war. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:04:00 - [18] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Nemtar Nataal Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Yes i know that one. Probably the longest running thread in this forum. Yeah I would like to see it implemented myself, but until then a POS JC array would really be a blessing for small corps who cannot afford to field capital ships. It will also be very useful for large alliances as well as it means the POS can be a true base of operations during war time, with pilots jumping to preassigned POSes at the front line, getting into thier ships and heading to war. It is posible to fit a Clone Vat bay to a Rorqual, the rorqual is qait affordable as a logistical device but does have some limitations on regards to capacety and you would need the pilote to activate it. Altogether i dont think its that much more expensive to use a Rorqual then a large POS and you would avoid the issue of getting the required sov level to fit the Array to the pos. Im both for and against this idear, i just see to many "bad" things that i cant quait get my head around... I will leave it up to the other people responding to this thread to hear if anyone else shares my consearns...
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Nemtar Nataal Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Yes i know that one. Probably the longest running thread in this forum. Yeah I would like to see it implemented myself, but until then a POS JC array would really be a blessing for small corps who cannot afford to field capital ships. It will also be very useful for large alliances as well as it means the POS can be a true base of operations during war time, with pilots jumping to preassigned POSes at the front line, getting into thier ships and heading to war. It is posible to fit a Clone Vat bay to a Rorqual, the rorqual is qait affordable as a logistical device but does have some limitations on regards to capacety and you would need the pilote to activate it. Altogether i dont think its that much more expensive to use a Rorqual then a large POS and you would avoid the issue of getting the required sov level to fit the Array to the pos. Im both for and against this idear, i just see to many "bad" things that i cant quait get my head around... I will leave it up to the other people responding to this thread to hear if anyone else shares my consearns... Sorry I don't agree with you. In the first place a Rorqual is by no means a "cheap" proposition. Its not just the ship, its the Ship AND the modules AND the pilot. You forget that the without a trained pilot who has invested time and a great deal of money ( hell the Advanced Spaceship command book is like 45 Million) is the only one who can fly the Rorqual. Add to this the fact that if he is not online, or he leaves the corporation, then you are out of luck. Secondly a JC Vat Array really can function just as well on a small, medium or Large POS, just that it means your options are limited on the smaller variants. In terms of Cost fielding a JC array on a POS is much more economic and practical. As for you other objectons, please state them, since I cant think of any. POS structures equipped with JC means that in times of war pilots can quickly field ships, also adding a strategic dimesnion. Imagine if you have made headway into enemy territory, you erect a POS with a JC Array, this means that you have to deploy a logistics chain to keep the JC array active (biogel for one) plus defend it. POSes now begin much more important strategic targets. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.25 12:15:00 - [21] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.28 08:18:00 - [22] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.04 02:17:00 - [23] /bump
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.13 04:46:00 - [24] /bump Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463

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