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New POS bowling style cropping up?

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Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:58:00 - [1] Is anyone aware of a new exploit being used to eject ships from a POS bubble? Recently we were attacked by a group (will remain nameless for now) and some how they managed to send a ship into the POS bubble in such a way that the POS ejected that member and the target ship only. Other ships within the bubble, even in close proximity are not effected. This is not regular POS bowling using inertia and mas. This appears to clearly be an exploit of the game IMO. Again this is not bowling, it is done with a fleet of small Inty class ships. There is no damage to the POS shield and the POS guns do not fire or agro the target no matter how security is set. The effected ship is cast out hundreds of KM away from the POS and is left helpless. The fleet can then swarm the effected ship and kill it with no danger from the pos. If the effected ships are industrial in nature there is 0 risk to the attackers. We petitioned this incident and were told basically thats its OK to exploit the game for PVP purposes, tough luck. Thoughts, ideas?
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:01:00 - [2] Appeal the decision if you feel its an exploit. If higher ups say its fine... its fine :) -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Belidonna . There is no damage to the POS shield and the POS guns do not fire or agro the target no matter how security is set. So, set the POS to shoot at anyone not in corp/alliance. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:06:00 - [4] Thank you for the feedback. We are following the process. I'm more interested to hear thoughts on how this is being done. The GM states that its an exploit, but allowed. I didn't know there were a class of exploits that are allowed.
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:07:00 - [5] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Belidonna . There is no damage to the POS shield and the POS guns do not fire or agro the target no matter how security is set. So, set the POS to shoot at anyone not in corp/alliance. It is and was. We even tested and the only way to not be shot is to approach in a pod.
Corduroy Rab Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:08:00 - [6] If you could post fraps of this happening it could help.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:11:00 - [7] Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 21/04/2008 20:10:55 hmm, intys? are they charging the shields at 10km/sec+? pos shields are warp bubbles if you dont have access...not sure how else to get a ship into the bubble to get bounced out. Bookmarking the tower doesnt work anymore....wonder what happens if they had a old bookmark thats inside the POS.... In any case, leave ships in SMAs when not piloted. If they are bumping piloted ships....have everyone in the pos orbit something? scarey. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:22:00 - [8] Edited by: Belidonna on 21/04/2008 20:25:38 Its not bumping / bowling in the traditional sense. Its an exploit of some kind that makes your own POS bubble eject the ship they have targeted. Piloted or not. In this case the ship was piloted. Another ship with a pilot right next to him was unaffected. They can basically pick ships out of the bubble and toss them outside of the range of POS defense. Swarm it and kill it. Repeat as they want with no risk to them and they dont even have to worry about the pos defenses.
Royaldo Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:27:00 - [9] Edited by: Royaldo on 21/04/2008 20:30:14 You are not making any sense at all. How do they do this? Target? WTF you mean target? Example. You are at pos, in a ship inside the shield with a proper pos password. They warp to pos, "target" you and then you just launch out of pos?? Do the inty's charge the pos? Maybe if you were abit more clear and how what and when ccp would look into it. If you sent in a petition with the same discription as you have here, then i fully understand ccp not taking action. Right now only thing i got from this is that you were at your pos. Some inty's showed up. They "locked" you, and then you bounced out of the pos.
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:48:00 - [10] Well I don't know exactly what they are doing. Thats the problem. We are trying to get some leads to assist the GMs. We are inside the pos bubble. Couple enemy ships show up well outside of POS agro range. Suddenly you and the enemy ship are flying outside of the POS bubble , you get locked, more enemy shows up and you die swiftly. The only thing I do know is that they were not "bumping" our ship(s). They were able to pick only 1 and get it out very quickly. They are not doing it again after we petitioned about it but that doesn't mean they wont hit someone else. One theory is saying that there may be something to do with having a logistic ship in the mix. It will target the inty that is going to eject the ship form a POS bubble. The logistic ship does an action , and the inty goes in. Then the inty does an action quickly and it makes the POS shield pop out both the inty and the ship that it is close by it. The result being that the POS does not agro the attacker on the way in and ejects a friendly ship from its force field as if it were unfriendly.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:12:00 - [11] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 21/04/2008 21:12:39 Is it possible that the attackers, starting 50km away from the POS, are warping to a cloaked gang mate 150km away, on the opposite side of the POS from them, at a warp-in range of 100km? This might have the effect of bypassing the shield. I know that it isn't possible to warp directly to a tower any more, so perhaps this is how it's done... My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:19:00 - [12] I have no idea if this still works, or if it works with unpiloted ships, but this may be related to what is going on. 1. Set your POS shield password. 2. Set the POS shield password on a ship and move it into the POS shield. 3. Change either the POS shield password on the POS or the ship. 4. Watch battleships get flung 100km from a POS in a matter of seconds. If they knew your POS shield password, used the password to enter the shield, positioned ship between the POS tower and the ship to be ejected, and then changed the POS password on their ship to not match the POS anymore, they would get ejected and possibly take the other ship with them. Change the poassword on the POS. If this is the cause of your problem, it's not an exploit, it's poor security on your part. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:22:00 - [13] It was not a password breach. Only 1 ship inside the bubble was effected. If this happened all ships would have flung out. The cloaked ship may be a possibility.
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Belidonna It was not a password breach. Only 1 ship inside the bubble was effected. If this happened all ships would have flung out. The cloaked ship may be a possibility. All they need to do is have one of their ships thrown out and if one of yours happens to be in their way it may come along for the ride. They're not changing the password on the POS, only their ship. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Arous Drephius Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:36:00 - [15] Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you can't change the password on your ship inside a POS shield?
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:38:00 - [16] Due to the configuration of the POS at the time and the characters in system, this would not have been possible. If you were not a member of the corp you would have been attacked by the POS. If you were a member of the corp, changing the POS to using a password on the shield would have ejected everyone inside the POS. The only characters close enough to manage the POS or even in system who could manage the POS, I am certain didn't do anything like this. Although thats a neat trick to scam with.
The macdaddy Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:52:00 - [17] You cant change your starbase forcefield password on your ship whilst inside a pos shield. you get a message about it "ripping yor ship apart" I typed This with my nose!
DuckyWucky Xeyphan Corp Blood and Steel	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:10:00 - [18] Pilot was in Rorq, Rorq was in POS. POS was set to aggro anyone not in Corp and below +5 standing and below +5 security. 11 frigs 1 BS and 1 logistics ship did some kind of exploit/magic to jump directly to the rorq inside the POS, cause it to aggro the POS shield in a way that caused the POS to eject the Rorq from within the POS bubble at 20000km/s which by the time it slowed down, it was outside the POS weapon and defence range and in range of the aggressors. however since it was still moving from the POS ejection it had no ability to wap, move, lock or do any other motion. At taht time the many frigs and BS locked, webbed, jammed, etc and took it out. I have been told by many that this is an exploit and if I try to reproduce this effort on my agressors ships in their POS I will be banned. however they were not banned and I am out a Rorq and 2 sets of very expensive implants that were in the clone VAT. If a rule is a rule it should apply to all of us, not only the GMs friends or a select few. If they can do it, I should be able to do it. If I cant do it, thay shouldnt be able to do it. Thats what this is really about.
Druadan Aristotle Enterprises Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:16:00 - [19] This sounds like a serious issue. Have you got the petition elevated to a senior GM yet? Also, consider naming and shaming: exploiters need to learn to play the game properly or GTFO. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Schani Kratnorr x13	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:29:00 - [20] This sounds awful lot like some of the vierd stuff that happens with the desync-phenomenon.
Illminatis	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:37:00 - [21] Originally by: DuckyWucky I have been told by many that this is an exploit and if I try to reproduce this effort on my agressors ships in their POS I will be banned. however they were not banned and I am out a Rorq and 2 sets of very expensive implants that were in the clone VAT. If you know how to recreate it, do it on your own POS using an alt, fraps it (even though CCP refuse to accept FRAPS), and make believers of us all. Right now it sounds like the guy in the rorq was sitting in the bubble, but not in your corp, and you guys changed the POS password while fidgeting with the POS menu and sent him flying.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:41:00 - [22] sigh i am still supriced that people doing such exploits isn't banned on sight.. seriously don't tell me they didn't know it was a exploit when figuring out how to do it. so perma ban the whole bunch that was in on the attack I declare war on stupidity
Lady Natacha Minmatar Water and Power	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:42:00 - [23] Breaking out the popcorn, and grabbing a comfortable chair. This last week or so has just been forum gold in terms of "exploits" and epic threads. My EVE sigs
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.22 01:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Illminatis Originally by: DuckyWucky I have been told by many that this is an exploit and if I try to reproduce this effort on my agressors ships in their POS I will be banned. however they were not banned and I am out a Rorq and 2 sets of very expensive implants that were in the clone VAT. If you know how to recreate it, do it on your own POS using an alt, fraps it (even though CCP refuse to accept FRAPS), and make believers of us all. Right now it sounds like the guy in the rorq was sitting in the bubble, but not in your corp, and you guys changed the POS password while fidgeting with the POS menu and sent him flying. We dont know how to recreate it. If we figure it out we will post it. Better yet we will audition the method for the GMs so they can fix it. The GM stated also believes an exploit was used. It wasn't the password thing, everyone knows about the password thing. If we dorked with the POS settings the GM would have dismissed the petition outright and told us we were tools, fail at life etc. So lets move on from that topic.
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:03:00 - [25] We believe that we now know how this is being done. I want to wait to hear back from the senior GMs about it before we go into any real details. Hopefully they will patch it soon and we can then discuss how it was done. Watch out for your friendly neighborhood Red Army Alliance and their Fleets. They seem to know how to do this very well. I just want them to know the cat is out of the bag now. We got your number. etc. etc. etc. It does not involve "bumping" or "Bowling" your ship out of the pos as has been previously described. It has nothing to do with the security settings.
Benco97 Gallente Exchangable Properties	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:10:00 - [26] Interesting read Originally by: Kirjava This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
Orchid Ix Behind The Stars	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:17:00 - [27] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 21/04/2008 21:12:39 Is it possible that the attackers, starting 50km away from the POS, are warping to a cloaked gang mate 150km away, on the opposite side of the POS from them, at a warp-in range of 100km? This might have the effect of bypassing the shield. I know that it isn't possible to warp directly to a tower any more, so perhaps this is how it's done... Doesn't work. -- Sig Under Construction
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:32:00 - [28] Edited by: Belidonna on 22/04/2008 19:32:15 Lets not try to bust into more of the details and get the thread locked. We got a few anonymous tips and are running with that. (thanks to those folks!) Players should be made aware that it can happen. We have made the GMs aware of it and a bug report was filed. We know some of those who are doing it.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:54:00 - [29] If you get enough detail here to get the thread locked then you have something you can petition. Which is what you're trying to do, right? Get something recognized as an exploit? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Belidonna	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:04:00 - [30] I'm pretty sure we have that level of detail now from an anonymous tipster. We have petitioned it. Its escalated. The outcome will be posted here.

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