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Fugi'et'Occulto
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Posted - 2008.04.22 07:44:00 -
[1]
So yes, any ship dampening you down to 5-10km was ludicrous. Then on top of that making your lock time 100s for a battleship at the same time was silly.
So they split up the bonuses through scripts, cut their effectiveness in half on top of that, and now we're stuck with literally a useless module.
Level V skills, 2xInverted Sig Field, T2 Damps and what do I get for fitting 4 RSD II's?
100km effective range vs 4 T2 Damps with Targeting Range scripts
...
...
11km.
So lets thats range gets you after skilling for 4-5 months straight on LV skills...Gang usage 0. Solo usage 0. Hmmm. Seems like a proper balance for a specialty ship.
With the majority of fights in the 10-12km range anyway, only the biggest sissy fights can use it.
Now lets compare against others with 4-5 months of skilling full rigs
Falcon - oh ya, lock down 3 BS's @ 200km out. Kinda useful
Rapier - Hmm, full skills, nano-out-the-butt while webbing any 2 ships.
Pilgrim - The only other ship that needs love. Flip curse and Pilgrim roles and you have a omgwtfhappenedtomycap nano ship.
These aren't combat recons. They have minimal dps. They're only purpose is to make 1-2 targets impotent. Falcon *check*, Rapier *check*, Curse (though its the wrong role) *check*, Arazu/Lachesis....You can either let them target your entire gange in the 10-15km range...or delay your death by maybe 20s w/ Resolution scripts.
Keep the scripts, dump the nerf on the specialty ships.
Pre-Rebuttal:
Yes, I can fly the ship differently
- Resolution scripts, and pray to god a blob kills the 1 target before I die for the cause
- Nano it and solo pwn...oh ya frigates, maybe a decent T1 cruiser (after 10m)
- Range scripts and fly around saying "oooh look at the pretty rings"
Ya whine and yada. Forums are made to air the laundry. Balance is an ongoing search for equilibrium. Plain and simple, any other recon can make 1-2 targets utterly helpless.
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Archa
Caldari
Chickens with an Attitude
No Law
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Posted - 2008.04.22 09:05:00 -
[2]
compared to the other races recons. the arazu/lachesis simply is worst.
i remember training for this ship because it was uber. now it is just a ship collecting dust in my hangar.
just like the curse.
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General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.04.22 09:30:00 -
[3]
Feel free to bump if you agree.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=722082&page=1
The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie) |
Everyone Dies
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.22 09:36:00 -
[4]
There's nothing really wrong with dampeners they do their job. They have a 100% chance of taking out at least 2 snipers from a fight. With heat they can scramble things 58km away.
Looks more than fine to me.
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Dearest Wish
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.22 10:10:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Everyone Dies
There's nothing really wrong with dampeners they do their job. They have a 100% chance of taking out at least 2 snipers from a fight. With heat they can scramble things 58km away.
Looks more than fine to me.
youre stupid and should feel bad
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.04.22 10:13:00 -
[6]
I still find it amuseing that within two weeks of the great ECM nerf people where crying about how overpowered damps where. Now after the damp nerf everyone and their alt is skilling up for a falcon. So we're right back to ECM whines again. But enough reflection on that.
Damps in their current form shine at the longer ranges. At 160km a T2 damp, with the proper skillpoints behind it, has 25%-30% chance of takeing scoreing a hit. That hit will take another long range BS out of the fight for 15 seconds. So the module itself is fine at current.
Gallente Recons need the same sort of boost the caldari recons got. Arazu's special trick is scraming a target without fear of retaliation untill the rest of the gang gets on scene. Right now I'm not sure it can do that very well. Lachesis sucked even when damps where king.
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arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.22 11:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
There's nothing really wrong with dampeners they do their job. They have a 100% chance of taking out at least 2 snipers from a fight. With heat they can scramble things 58km away.
Looks more than fine to me.
Wtb 150km+ damps
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^ |
Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.22 11:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
There's nothing really wrong with dampeners they do their job. They have a 100% chance of taking out at least 2 snipers from a fight. With heat they can scramble things 58km away.
Looks more than fine to me.
58km snipers, because you see them every day  I suppose an eagle loaded with antimatter 
---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.04.22 12:14:00 -
[9]
Only thing Lach and Arazu can do now is sit on Minmatar gates to provide 100% scram coverage.
Either give them a range bonus to damps or increase the damp bonus from 5% up to 10-15%. And give us low slot Damp boosting mods like with ECM.
The falcon is able to do it's job from 150+km away, the Lach and Arazu ideally need to close to 30-40km. Whereas the Rapier can to an extent fit a reasonably competant tank and still fit 2 webs+MWD the Arazu and Lach are paper thin whatever.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.04.22 12:16:00 -
[10]
Optimal + (Falloff) = 50% chance to hit.
Optimal + (falloff*2) = 0% chance to hit.
Fairly sure everyone already knows about this. Let's take a T2 damp with all level 4 skills behind it for the sake of reason. For a 25% chance to land that damp on a target the range will be 168km. With the range script loaded the target will most likely have a targeting range of between 110km - 140km. Alot of factors involved but it's a sure thing that it'll be below 150km.
Just for pointless trivia the maxium range where it's possible to hit with a T2 sensor damp is 224.9km. A very small chance it is but one only needs to look at ECM modules to see how wonky dice rolls are in this game at times. Personaly I consider 170km the max pratical range of damps.
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Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Soul of Fountain
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Posted - 2008.04.22 12:28:00 -
[11]
Pilgrim - The only other ship that needs love. Flip curse and Pilgrim roles and you have a omgwtfhappenedtomycap nano ship.
Pilgrim and Curse aren't minmatar ships specialized for speed hence they will get a final whack on the head with the nerfbat when CCP will nerf nano's (which they have already anounced to do so).
So instead of 1 useless and 1 semi decent recon Amarr will just as gallente end up with 2 useless ones (and 1 even totally ********).
---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.22 13:31:00 -
[12]
Agreed.
My Arazu has quad damps and -56% scan res/lock range per damp, but I still don't bother flying it. It can damp 1-2 targets down to short range. Which the targets usually don't care about. And it can't nano for ****. A falcon can shut down a whole gang. My arazu can.....get exploded?
My curse is still kickin' ass though.
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Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Fugi'et'Occulto
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Posted - 2008.04.22 13:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Fugi''et''Occulto on 22/04/2008 13:33:50
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
Damps in their current form shine at the longer ranges. At 160km a T2 damp, with the proper skillpoints behind it, has 25%-30% chance of takeing scoreing a hit. That hit will take another long range BS out of the fight for 15 seconds.
...
Arazu's special trick is scraming a target without fear of retaliation untill the rest of the gang gets on scene.
You know, because Eve == Fleet+Gate Sniping. I can't even remember the last time anyone involved in a real gang (i.e. 10- ppl instead of a 20+ fleet) fight had to worry about sniping. You want to talk Fleet, go get flash cards, hold them, flip through them, and see if you can see your damps turning on.
As to the Arazu's special trick,  . So its great for gate camping, great for ranging down sniper fits. And its special trick is "safely" scramming ONE target 50km away. You do know that its got horrible cap and nano ability right? Come at me with an Arazu I'll just MWD after you until you run out of cap and watch you run away.
Unlike the other recons it has no chance against 2 ships. Falcon *check*, Rapier *check*, Curse *check* (even ignoring combat role). I've seen Falcons hold off 4-5 ships effectively. A rapier 3. A curse 4-5 as well. An arazu? lmao! 1 at best!
A ship who's bonuses only allows it to run away with little to no utility for the gang is a ship who's specialty isn't so special. By the way, the role of effective scrambler has already been taken, I'll let you guess which ship class that is.
Originally by: Shevar
Pilgrim and Curse aren't minmatar ships specialized for speed hence they will get a final whack on the head with the nerfbat when CCP will nerf nano's (which they have already anounced to do so)
Speed or not the point is that all Force Recons are meant to engage at range and do little damage. The Amarr are the only exception with their combat recon being a ranged maniac, and their force recon being a suicidal ramming ship.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.04.22 14:00:00 -
[14]
I do belive you misunderstood the post of mine you quoted from. That's ok I'll draw it in crayon for you.
1: Sensor damps in their current form are fine.
2: Gallente Recons need a boost.
That better for you?
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