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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Tashanaka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
14
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Posted - 2012.03.01 21:16:00 -
[421] - Quote
CCP Gnauton wrote: ... Missiles: We still do firmly believe in the usability of a single name across all missiles of a given damage type, but the "Trauma" designator seems to have violently struck a nerve with several of you guys. Since this is early days for this project, anything is possible. If anybody can come up with a sufficiently convincing and objective reason for why this name is the infernal love-child of bad taste and cluelessness, then I will seriously consider changing it. (I'm thinking something like "Anguish" might be good, whaddaya think? Just kidding, I like being alive.)..
What was wrong with Scourge as the flavoring name like you did with others? "Scourge Heavy Kinetic Missile" etc.
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Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
39
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Posted - 2012.03.01 21:22:00 -
[422] - Quote
Gilbarun wrote:Confirming I actually like trauma missiles
I also like the idea of items being named with the following scheme:
'(nickname)' (meta indicator) (type)
'arbalest' prototype cruise missile launcher
you should still reconsider the meta indicators and the launcher names, but you will gain ease of access without loosing flavor The nickname (Arbalest) gives information about module type (missile launcher) and meta level (4). Two possibilities:
- If you know what it represents, all you need to know to fully identify the module is its type (cruise) So, in order to facilitate its identification by long time players, the beginning of the name should be 'Arbalest cruise' (you only need to read the first two words fully identify the module)
- If you don't know what the nickname represents, you need to read further. But the meta module is difficult to immediately understand: why using a word for describing a numerical scale ? Better keep the number logic !
TLDR: 'Arbalest' prototyp cruise missile launcher > 'Arbalest' cruise M4 missile launcher |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
773
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Posted - 2012.03.01 21:25:00 -
[423] - Quote
JamesCLK wrote:All praise Gnauton, for he hath saved our PWN, PWNT, PWND and PWNAGE! <3
This.
Thanks for listening to us, ok guys now we need to come up with an easier naming scheme but keep it super sci-fi .
My thoughts on rails -
When you do the bg research on rail guns there are different types rail guns , coil, gauss etc and the way they are built are all different. Anyway i digress.
For rails
Railgun I - ok
my issue is with the carbide and 'scout' guns. See when searching for items the minmatar meta 4 are all 'scout' cannons so all I have to do is search for scout but it also brings up minmatar. which is bad. I would suggest carbine but that might get mixed up with the carbide as they are too similar. Also cannon seems a little too out there as when i think of cannon i dont think of a rail gun.
So here our my thoughts.
Railgun I Plasma Armature Railgun Carbide Railgun Compressed Coil Railgun Prototype Gauss Gun Railgun II
- I am trying to keep comformity using guns in all of them. But looking at this random wiki page There are some interesting variations to the rail gun.
Now as for blasters - I have always found that was confusing until i could use t2 then i said screw trying to remember it. Limited, regulated, anode, modal. Now I think anode and modal are cool and easy to remember for 3 and 4, limited and regulated dont seem to fit the scheme. As i think about it more they dont seem to fit at all, any of them. When being issued a set of large armorments I like to think of a serial number or something on them.
so for blasters why not make a naming scheme kind of similar to that of implants.
Light neutron blaster I LNB-100 neutron blaster LNB-200 limited neutron blaster etc.
This preserves some of the original naming scheme but also gives a prefix similar to that of implants which makes it easier to search and preserve some uninqueness to naming.
As for others give me a few I think all minmatar guns should be renamed to the appropriate ammo they use from spare change to volkswagons. I for one welcome the new 1400 series volkswagon launcher II. |
Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders MPA
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 21:36:00 -
[424] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:Hmm a names for a kinetic missiles.
meh Anvil meh Anyways thank you CCP for taking a chance to step back and review the module naming execution.
I HEARTILY approve of this choice! I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
606
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Posted - 2012.03.01 21:40:00 -
[425] - Quote
i am not sure what you intended to fix with the metalevel renaming in the first place.
the meta levels lead to the thinking that the higher the level the better the item. Items however have more than one attribute. So its hard to say what is better. For example, there are some meta 4 items which are better (or equal) in basically every attribute which matters including the price compared to the tech 2 equivalent. I am not sure if this is intended or just a balancing artifact.
So... please go back to the drawing board and think again about all that. Maybe it would make sense to use scify tokens instead of bad/better/ok/good modifiers. It looks to me like you tried something like that however since you didn't explain what you tried to do, it was probably misunderstood since 90% of all people i talked to think in the higher the meta, the better the item scheme.
and yeah, find a better name for small medium lasers since they collide with medium lasers - but i said that already :) a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders MPA
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 21:42:00 -
[426] - Quote
Wow, lots of different ideas. Since you have this nifty forum CCP and players have come up with lots of idea, why not break them down by groups and let us VOTE on them in an online poll by ranking possibilities from best to worst? As long as we have an active account, we should get to voice an opinion. Filter them so one player gets one vote. Majority rules. You must be able to come up with 5 or 6 options that should make most people somewhat happy.
Lets face it, no matter what, this Pandora's Box has been opened. At least if I get a vote, I will feel that my opinion counted, even if it is the worst choice I could imagine. I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it. |
Phobos Vortex
Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN
6
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Posted - 2012.03.01 21:46:00 -
[427] - Quote
CCP Gnauton wrote: Missiles: We still do firmly believe in the usability of a single name across all missiles of a given damage type, but the "Trauma" designator seems to have violently struck a nerve with several of you guys. Since this is early days for this project, anything is possible. If anybody can come up with a sufficiently convincing and objective reason for why this name is the infernal love-child of bad taste and cluelessness, then I will seriously consider changing it. (I'm thinking something like "Anguish" might be good, whaddaya think? Just kidding, I like being alive.)
As a hopefully sufficiently convincing and objective reason to change the name "Trauma" is that this word is related to organic matter. Since the majority of Ships in EVE is not organic a medical expression like "Trauma" is simply not suitable. In addition the word Trauma lacks of coolness in comarison to old kinetic missile names like "Terror" or "Scourge" for example. I personally would prefer the name "Impact" for kinetic damage. Its much more suitable for what a kinetic missile does when it meets the cold steel of a spaceship. Much like "Inferno" it can easily be associated with the kind of damage it does while it simply sounds cool.
Here comes a list of words i would prefer:
Thermic: Inferno (cant think of a better name to assoiciate with "really hot" )
Kinetic: Impact (a hit of pure force to add more sparkling stars to see around)
Explosive: Detonator (thats what it does and sounds like "BAM")
EM: Photon (electromagnetic radiation consists of them and it permits to have photon torpedoes ) |
Cailais
Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance
217
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Posted - 2012.03.01 22:17:00 -
[428] - Quote
If name changes are needed, why not use the existing lore to draw inspiration. Perhaps Ytiri Corp are renowned for making reduced quality but inexpensive turrets systems?
Ytiri 150mm Railgun
or
Propel Dynamics 10mn Afterburner
Sounds much better to my mind than some random adjective & might even pave the way towards player corporation branding of material goods.
C.
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Random Womble
Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
10
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Posted - 2012.03.01 22:32:00 -
[429] - Quote
One thing that has been bugging me actually in general is the slight obsession with meta level as an indicator of the quality of the item as a higher meta level does not always mean a better item even within T1 named modules (faction have more examples but is outside the general scope of this discussion)
Missile launchers are a good example where although higher meta level does reflect more DPS for another attribute (CPU requirements) the order of best to worst by meta level is 1>4>2>3>0 (this is a good thing in a way as it makes lower grade weapons useful in some situations)
Then there are hull upgrades like cargo expanders. Firstly here to confuse matters you have module types with separate variations with the same name the basic expanded cargohold (and its offshoots) and the expanded cargohold I and its offspring .
Ignoring the Expanded Cargohold I family initially and looking only at the basic family all of the basic family are considered meta 0 yet have a cargo capacity bonus which ranges from 15% to 24.2% and when you then bring in the Expanded cargohold I family matters get more confusing with the best basic (meta 0) module being better than the meta1 and 2 modules for the cargohold I family variety of mods.
Then there are the ECCM mods and backup arrays which have one set of meta 0 and 1 modules but 2 meta 2, 3 and 4 modules,, the backup arrays have no variations in quality but the ECCM modules have different cycle timers, activation costs, and heat damage for the 2 modules at each meta level giving each different small advantages and disadvantages (and because of this i would advocate not removing them)
This is only if you rely on meta level as an indicator and generally i think that these variations that dont keep in line with meta level variation offer up different options (E.g. do i fit a co-proc and arbalest launchers or do i fit malkuths and fit a BCS) and faction and storyline items can often be worse or the same as T1 counterparts in some areas same goes for T2.
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Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
35
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Posted - 2012.03.01 22:49:00 -
[430] - Quote
CCP Gnauton wrote: Missiles: We still do firmly believe in the usability of a single name across all missiles of a given damage type, but the "Trauma" designator seems to have violently struck a nerve with several of you guys. Since this is early days for this project, anything is possible. If anybody can come up with a sufficiently convincing and objective reason for why this name is the infernal love-child of bad taste and cluelessness, then I will seriously consider changing it. (I'm thinking something like "Anguish" might be good, whaddaya think? Just kidding, I like being alive.)
How about Scourge? :)
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Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
25
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Posted - 2012.03.01 23:05:00 -
[431] - Quote
Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Missiles HM-703.....
is still a mouthful
change to just acronyms so this one would be:
Zainou 'Snapshot' HM-703
after all any idiot can figure out the acronyms for skills |
Bent Barrel
38
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Posted - 2012.03.01 23:24:00 -
[432] - Quote
OMG Gnauton listens !!!
Anyway, please consider the plethora of guides that are no longer maintained (but still valid) that you will obsolete in one rather stupid change. EVE has a history of players for players guides and tools that use the current naming convention. This will all be obsoleted and new players will have to either laborously decrypt them or ask in the forums and wait.
Please bring back Scourge for the kinetic missile variant. |
Bent Barrel
38
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Posted - 2012.03.01 23:28:00 -
[433] - Quote
Dark Drifter wrote:Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Missiles HM-703.....
is still a mouthful
change to just acronyms so this one would be:
Zainou 'Snapshot' HM-703
after all any idiot can figure out the acronyms for skills
will not work always ... there are duplicates ... f.e.:
Evasive Maneuvering - EM - agility Energy Management - EM - capacitor capacity
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Adaahh Gee
Rock jockeyz Ushra'Khan
5
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:26:00 -
[434] - Quote
*Facepalm
More renaming?
After all the uproar and complaints from your existing paying customers, you want to rename more modules?
Do you ACTUALLY listen or is the voice of Sony in your ear more influential?
Why not remove ship spinning again? if you really want to wind us all up?
Do you not understand that by the standardization of naming, you are removing the immersion from the game.
NEWSFLASH! Immersion is what gets people logged on for 15 hours a day, it's what makes people tell their wife they can't go out that evening as there is a CTA scheduled, it is what makes Eve such an awesome game.
By dumbing down the game, you are really, genuinely alienating your core user base, and honestly, it will not attract new players, it will not make people who have a short attention span suddenly stay playing after their 14-day trial ends.
Please, please, please, Reconsider your streamlining, concentrate your efforts on some worthwhile UI improvements, Streamline the way roles are setup in corps so they are actually easy to understand, Add some more nice shiny ships, Tier 2 Destroyers with E-War bonus, make the Scythe and Bellicose actual useful ships in the way Blackbirds and Arbitrators are.
Finally, please understand that we love this game (Probably more than you do) and that we spend huge chunks of our lives dedicated to playing it (again, probably more than you do). The playerbase of Eve is an enormous resource for you, you can use it to make genuine, useful improvements. Or, you can change names of things that don't need changing and have a bunch of people on a forum whining about it. |
Ceptia Cyna
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:38:00 -
[435] - Quote
I support the name changes in general to make it more intutive to use items and their meta variations. This might help beginners while not cutting any gaming complexity. Nevertheless i will miss they joy i had back in the days finding an 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher.
You should somehow, as mentioned before, rethink the naming and maybe come up with some different wordings.
cheers \o/
PS: Some players should start to get a life... very very sad but true. |
Luba Cibre
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 01:12:00 -
[436] - Quote
In the past, i've searched for y-t8 if i want to find the best named cruiser sized mwd. Now, i've to search for experimental and find a sh.it ton of stuff or i have to search for experimental 10mn what is ******* long to search. In the future, if i'll search for experimental i'll find about 200 modules, thats stupid.
Just another example: The old names are like the diablo 2 item names, they're unique and cool, the new names are like the random generated green wow stuff "bracers of the eagle" or something like that ****. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
5
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Posted - 2012.03.02 01:20:00 -
[437] - Quote
Luba Cibre wrote:In the past, i've searched for y-t8 if i want to find the best named cruiser sized mwd. Now, i've to search for experimental and find a sh.it ton of stuff or i have to search for experimental 10mn what is ******* long to search. Then just search for "10mn m" and you will get the list of all 10mn mwds, and tha tis freaking awsome. |
Luba Cibre
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 01:39:00 -
[438] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Luba Cibre wrote:In the past, i've searched for y-t8 if i want to find the best named cruiser sized mwd. Now, i've to search for experimental and find a sh.it ton of stuff or i have to search for experimental 10mn what is ******* long to search. Then just search for "10mn m" and you will get the list of all 10mn mwds, and that is freaking awsome. but i don't want the complete list, i want one specific item. |
Debir Achen
EVE University Ivy League
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 03:00:00 -
[439] - Quote
I think "Scourge" has a special place because it is the ammunition used by drakes, and many of us have flown one at some point or other. There's not the same passion with the Cruise launchers, as none of the battleships are bonused to a specific type of ammo. You might get a similar effect if you renamed multifrequency or antimatter.
That said, I liked the flavour text associated with each missile name, and would much prefer the combined Scourge Kinetic Heavy Missile, which keeps the naming flavour (and unique name) and still completely defines the missile. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1005
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 03:00:00 -
[440] - Quote
CCP Gnauton wrote:Hi guys, (including tooltips or other UI solutions that might serve the same function better).
Thank you
Get |
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Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1005
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 03:03:00 -
[441] - Quote
Debir Achen wrote:I think "Scourge" has a special place because it is the ammunition used by drakes, and many of us have flown one at some point or other. There's not the same passion with the Cruise launchers, as none of the battleships are bonused to a specific type of ammo. You might get a similar effect if you renamed multifrequency or antimatter.
That said, I liked the flavour text associated with each missile name, and would much prefer the combined Scourge Kinetic Heavy Missile, which keeps the naming flavour (and unique name) and still completely defines the missile. Yep - key parts of old names should remain in the new name if any renaming has to be done. Roll the old missile names back and add the damage type to them with one extra word. People will spank you much less after that (including myself .)
Get |
Danny Husk
EVE University Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2012.03.02 04:21:00 -
[442] - Quote
There was nothing at all wrong with "Scourge," and as a menacing term it's much more congruent with "Interno," "Nova," and "Mjolnir." "Trauma" is just weird and dissonant, and has a biological tone out of step with stuff that suggests big blazing fireballs and giant hammers smashing stuff into little bits of dust.
It's been suggested by several others already, but the solution to the whole "Assault" conundrum is simple:
Cruise Missile Launcher Torpedo Launcher
Heavy Missile Launcher Heavy ROCKET Launcher (was HAML)
[Blitz/Tornado | Dual/Quad] Rapid-Fire Light Missile Array (was AML)
Light Missile Launcher Light Rocket Launcher
Problem solved.
The HAML <-> AML idea is just bad, bad, bad any way you spin it. There is nothing you could do that would work worse than that in making a little less tangle of the whole thing.
The new AML really needs a term that is distinctive enough that it doesn't suggest it is simply a "better" version of Light Missile Launcher (i.e., something akin to the "Dual 180mm" guns; not something that just sounds like an upgrade, but a different class of weapon composed of several of the smaller class weapons). Even "Rapid" sounds a little like it's just going to be a "better" light missile launcher, which will lead to endless confusion when noobs can't figure out why four of them won't fit on a Kestrel. |
David Carel
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
203
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Posted - 2012.03.02 05:25:00 -
[443] - Quote
I don't support those name changes.
All of them. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2012.03.02 05:45:00 -
[444] - Quote
CCP Gnauton wrote:Hi guys,
...is the meta scheme really serving the player, and is the cost to flavor too great?...
First off, thanks for replying. I was afraid the feedback was going to go down the drain as it seemed to have happened when we were force fed the missile names.
For the record, and for the third time, I still think Trauma presents no clear advantage over Scourge. I agree with renaming them (firefox, gremlin, etc - way too many names), but you should have kept the more representative names (like scourge or mjolnir) instead of coming up with new ones that have absolutely no meaning to anyone in EVE.
Same goes for prop mods. Y-T8 was too well known to simply be discarded and changed to "experimental" (talking about lost flavor).
Which brings us to the meta levels. It seems a good idea to expose the meta levels on the names, but the cost of flavor (as you put it( is simply too great. Now, out the window goes Malkuth and Arbalest. Really?
If you are going to rename EVERYTHING to limited, experimental, prototype, etc (or whatever names you end up with), then EVE looses a lot of flavor. Everything will have the same 4 names, from guns to prop mods, from missile launchers to warp disruptors (at least the target painters are spared!!).
You are loosing a LOT of immersion and diluting the universe of EVE. You are loosing what EVE actually means, a far away dark and gritty place waiting among the stars...
PS: Sorry for getting sentimental at the end. On second thought, maybe you are going at this backwards. I understand the idea: make EVE easier to learn, make EVE easier for the new player. Maybe the way to do it is to actually mention the meta level concept in the tutorials. Teach them about the attributes (show info) each thing has and teach them about the compare tool, instead of renaming everything to fine, good, gooder, bestest.
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Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
52
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Posted - 2012.03.02 06:55:00 -
[445] - Quote
Adaahh Gee wrote:*Facepalm
More renaming?
After all the uproar and complaints from your existing paying customers, you want to rename more modules?
Do you ACTUALLY listen or is the voice of Sony in your ear more influential?
Why not remove ship spinning again? if you really want to wind us all up?
Do you not understand that by the standardization of naming, you are removing the immersion from the game.
NEWSFLASH! Immersion is what gets people logged on for 15 hours a day, it's what makes people tell their wife they can't go out that evening as there is a CTA scheduled, it is what makes Eve such an awesome game.
By dumbing down the game, you are really, genuinely alienating your core user base, and honestly, it will not attract new players, it will not make people who have a short attention span suddenly stay playing after their 14-day trial ends.
Please, please, please, Reconsider your streamlining, concentrate your efforts on some worthwhile UI improvements, Streamline the way roles are setup in corps so they are actually easy to understand, Add some more nice shiny ships, Tier 2 Destroyers with E-War bonus, make the Scythe and Bellicose actual useful ships in the way Blackbirds and Arbitrators are.
Finally, please understand that we love this game (Probably more than you do) and that we spend huge chunks of our lives dedicated to playing it (again, probably more than you do). The playerbase of Eve is an enormous resource for you, you can use it to make genuine, useful improvements. Or, you can change names of things that don't need changing and have a bunch of people on a forum whining about it.
+1
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Main Malaak
Unreal Synergy The Methodical Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.03.02 07:21:00 -
[446] - Quote
tl;dr
Maybe someone already came up with the following idea, but if this is mostly about how you can display the meta level of an item, why not simply marking the icons with meta level tags, just like you do it with T2 or faction already?
simple and no messing around with item names
additionally i would implement a better sorting for the market
done. |
Sturmwolke
139
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:45:00 -
[447] - Quote
Lol, I posted (in pg20) without even reading any comments in this thread ... reflecting back, a lot of players think alike when it comes to certain things.
That leaves me to the point of this post, who was it that thought it was ok to remove "Scourge"? I'd like to put that person into a cage and sink him/her to the bottom of the ocean
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Medusa The Gorgon
Temple of the Serpent The Gorgon Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.02 08:53:00 -
[448] - Quote
Boycott the changes! Save the PWNAGE target painter for future generations! |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1662
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 09:09:00 -
[449] - Quote
CCP Gnauton wrote:While there've been dozens of good (and a few very good) suggestions for alternative schemes, the proof is nevertheless in the pudding. Look at how many different schemes you guys came up with. Look at how different they are. Look at the disagreements amongst yourselves on which of them is the most intuitive. Everybody has different associations with all of these words,so in the end the fact remains that any word scheme will to some extent be arbitrary and prone to disagreement and confusion. This is not said in defense of my own scheme, because as you've continually (and rightfully) pointed out to me, it certainly has its flaws. I think if you are going to run this line of argument then you very carefully need to consider the most obvious logical option.
No one had an issue with naming conventions before any of these changes were suggested/implemented. Since then there has been nothing but complaints. While people may have different suggestions, the best option is simply to leave them alone. This is not only for its simplicity, nor 'legacy' reasons but also immersion/roleplay. Why should modules manuifactured by different organisations follow any sort of dumbed down conventions, especially when this is meant to be a universe revolving around Corporate wars.
This is very much a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Finally, you could consider changing Trauma to Greed in homage to the last time you steamrolled unpopular changes into the game. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
259
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Posted - 2012.03.02 09:40:00 -
[450] - Quote
Medusa The Gorgon wrote:Boycott the changes! Save the PWNAGE target painter for future generations!
Already saved. It was never on the table to change.
But if you'd read the thread before posting, you'd know that. Or even just read the dev comments on the thread. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
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