A couple more guides that might be helpful. the first one is excellent.


Islands among the Stars: A Guide To Everything Wormhole. Arcdragon.
http://www.fiercewebs.com/arcdragon/EverythingWormhole.pdf
Excellent! Was one of my early reads prior to jumping in at the deep end.


The Complete Unknown. Lorkin Desal.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1108/The_Complete_Unknown%5B2%5D.pdf
Recent ... No idea re quality

The amount of isk you can make these days running sites in a c1-3 is less than running high sec incursions with a crap ton more risk so IMO not worth it.
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I'd have to disagree with this point, in that it is far too generalized, and therefore not universally true.

it is true.

im not saying that c1-3 WHs arent worth living in, but if youre specifically after isk from killing sleepers, it's a waste of time.
those low class whs are great for PVP, t3 production, PI ect.

It is true with a disclaimer. I would say you need to tack the following to the end of your statment "...for those with the skills to fly an incursion worthy ship and the time to run them"

For skills, I will use me as an example. I moved into a C1 when I was a mere 5 months into this game (I also have an alt that is one month behind my main). At 5 months old I did not fly anything that would get me into an incursion fleet. Even now, at 10 months old, I don't really have a ton of ships that would get me reliable invites. But in the 5 months living in a C1, I have made billions upon billions of isk. And that isk is at least twice the isk/hr I was ever seeing running LVL 4 missions (my primary PVE income source before moving in).

The second is time. From talking to friends, to really do well with incursions you need a decent block of time. I'd figure at least an hour, preferrably 2. This also depends on how far you may have to travel to get to the incursion and how quickly a fleet can form up AND how quickly you can get invited.

Again I will use me as an example. My RL has kept me fairly busy. Many nights I simply don't have that kind of time to dedicate to EVE. Tonight for example I logged in to find 3 new anoms had spawned. I ran them, salvaged. Now I'm writing this reply, then i have some work and then get to bed.

C1 sites pretty much take me 4.5-5 min to run. 1.5-2min to salvage. Factoring in warp time lets say 10min a site. So it took me 30min to clear those (actually less but round numbers are easy). In 5 months I have found the average nano's per C1 site is about 5. Tonight was a little light, as I only got 8. At say 8mil per, thats 64mil in 30min, or 128mil/hr. Not too shabby. Given I only had this 30min window to play tonight, I would have likely made 0 trying to run an incursion.

Now don't take this as picking on you or anything. I highly respect your WH experience, and that of all of the big WH alliances (I hope to do more of what you guys do in the future). But it is overly simplified to just say, incursions make more.

Additionally, WH life, at least for me, is more about a total EVE life than just isk/hr. I highly enjoy how dynamic it is. Every day is different. Some days I get lots of sites, and its a big PVE day. Some days I get random WH neighbors which open up PVP opportunities. Sometimes wormholes spawn while I am clearing sites, which makes for even more fun. Sometimes the WH is dead, so I can poke my head out my lowsec static for some LS PVE or PVP fun.

Additionally, WH life, at least for me, is more about a total EVE life than just isk/hr. I highly enjoy how dynamic it is. Every day is different. Some days I get lots of sites, and its a big PVE day. Some days I get random WH neighbors which open up PVP opportunities. Sometimes wormholes spawn while I am clearing sites, which makes for even more fun. Sometimes the WH is dead, so I can poke my head out my lowsec static for some LS PVE or PVP fun.

I have been thinking about finding a WH corp but before i do this can someone tell me about the life in a WH. specifically i want to know about the isk that can be made and how easy it is to establish and lock down a WH.

One of the issues with a WH corp is that while they can be very profitable you are generally not allowed to make any money there.

Unless you set up the WH itself, you are reliant on the corporation to supply the infrastructure/logistics and, in return, they want pretty much everything.

Sleepers, for example...the 'salvage goes to the corp'. The problem is that sleeper salvage IS the isk, not the sleepers themselves.

Want to try PI? Sure, go ahead. However, give all the stuff you get to the corp please.

Probing down interesting sites? SOunds good...but we do them as a corp (tbh, you HAVE to as they are many times very very tough) and then you are back to 'salvage goes to the corp' again.

I had an alt belong to a WH corp and I don't really think of what they do as scamming me...the corp was growing in strength. They were building cap ships aplenty to defend the WH, more POSs etc, however I never saw a point where *I* could make some serious isk and I needed it! I ofund out I was better running off lvl 4's then in a high class WH.

tbh though, I've had this problem in every corp I've joined. It takes a different form but it is always build up the corp strength and it never reaches a point where *my* strength has importance. I have gotten very jaded and skeptical - my main is at about 50 mill SP and is pretty much a loner making a isk (net worth over 20 bill would be my guess at this point) but every time I try to join a corp it never seems to be a mutual beneficial arrangement - just stuff flowing to the corp.

One of the issues with a WH corp is that while they can be very profitable you are generally not allowed to make any money there.

Unless you set up the WH itself, you are reliant on the corporation to supply the infrastructure/logistics and, in return, they want pretty much everything.

Sleepers, for example...the 'salvage goes to the corp'. The problem is that sleeper salvage IS the isk, not the sleepers themselves.

Want to try PI? Sure, go ahead. However, give all the stuff you get to the corp please.

Probing down interesting sites? SOunds good...but we do them as a corp (tbh, you HAVE to as they are many times very very tough) and then you are back to 'salvage goes to the corp' again.

I had an alt belong to a WH corp and I don't really think of what they do as scamming me...the corp was growing in strength. They were building cap ships aplenty to defend the WH, more POSs etc, however I never saw a point where *I* could make some serious isk and I needed it! I ofund out I was better running off lvl 4's then in a high class WH.

tbh though, I've had this problem in every corp I've joined. It takes a different form but it is always build up the corp strength and it never reaches a point where *my* strength has importance. I have gotten very jaded and skeptical - my main is at about 50 mill SP and is pretty much a loner making a isk (net worth over 20 bill would be my guess at this point) but every time I try to join a corp it never seems to be a mutual beneficial arrangement - just stuff flowing to the corp.

Damn, what kinda sh!thole corps have you belonged to? When I have run corp wide sites, they took all the salvage, took out 10%, and divided the rest between the site participants.

Damn, what kinda sh!thole corps have you belonged to? When I have run corp wide sites, they took all the salvage, took out 10%, and divided the rest between the site participants.

Which is how it should be!

That's what I keep telling myself - that I just need to find a good corp. However, after more than 10 and after 3 years you start to get to thinking they all are crap .

It always ends up being that I can make more isk by myself than with a group. There should be a sort of synergy - a win-win where both the group and the indiviudal do better than apart. However, I have yet to see it.

..............................

The most important thing to note about WHs is that they are a severely hostile PVP environment.
There are people who live there that will camp your WH for months just to make you nervous and get a few kills just for funsies because they have a spare bomber alt.
There are people who will camp a covops for 12 hours just to get the kill.
There are people who will blow up your POS because you don't fight back.
There are people who will blow up your POS because you close a convo with them before they are done.
And there is not local so you won't see them coming.
I have done and know people who have done all of these things.
.................................................

It saddens me that some WH corps would perpetrate such acts on poor unsuspecting people.

One of the issues with a WH corp is that while they can be very profitable you are generally not allowed to make any money there.

Unless you set up the WH itself, you are reliant on the corporation to supply the infrastructure/logistics and, in return, they want pretty much everything.

Sleepers, for example...the 'salvage goes to the corp'. The problem is that sleeper salvage IS the isk, not the sleepers themselves.

specifically:

you can make a lot of isk. if youre in a small corp you can do lower class wormholes and make around 60-70m an hour id say. the more experienced you get, and the better organised you get when collapsing for new farming grounds and punching sleepers the higher this gets.

if you join one of the big wormhole corps or alliances and get your skills ready, this can go up to 100's of millions an hour or even over a billion if you can multi-box

it is true.

im not saying that c1-3 WHs arent worth living in, but if youre specifically after isk from killing sleepers, it's a waste of time.
those low class whs are great for PVP, t3 production, PI ect.

Sure, it's true, but it's really only relevant to people for whom making isk is a chore, so they're looking to get it over with as fast as possible so they can go back to pvp. For others, such activities can be fun, and I daresay anyone who only cares about isk/hour really isn't going to be considering wormholes anyway. It's for the adventure, isk is just one of the many ways you can keep score.

if you dont have the skills to run incursions, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR whs.

if you dont have the skills to run incursions, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR whs.

I have been thinking about finding a WH corp but before i do this can someone tell me about the life in a WH. specifically i want to know about the isk that can be made and how easy it is to establish and lock down a WH.

You mad bro... been dying to use that in the forms.. clearly you have never lived in a wh.

Its all about the corp you find. I am in a corp that lets you do what you want in the wh as long as you keep the bubble up. None of my proceeds got to the corp. So I keep the iskies, and pay for the pos fuel I can't PI. The best way to learn is jump in. One of those guides has a list of what to expect, and You will die is on top, and in several other positions. As long as you accept this, you will be OK. Just make sure your clone is up to date and it helps to train an alt on the the same account to scan you back in when you get popped. My scan alt is on the same account and is not in my corp.

hate to break it to you but sleeper salvage is about 15% of profits in c5-6 WHs.
less if it's a mag/rad.

if you can't find ways to make isk in a wh youre either in a crap corp or youre doing it wrong.

if you dont have the skills to run incursions, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR whs.

I hate to break it to you but sleeper salvage is closer to 50-60% in a C3, and more in lower class holes.

But second statement is absolutely true, w-space definitely has enough ISK for any normal person. If you are OCD about wallet digits, you should look into trading. Shooting red crosses will never make you rich, no matter where or how much you grind.