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Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
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Posted - 2012.03.01 14:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
tommydavis wrote:You could try not being a ***** and switch to targets that can fight back. Bring a real combat ship and you will get fights.
because eve is all about consensual pvp :D
Anyway the difference between cloaking in whs and cloaking in 0.0 is that in whs you can't bridge a gang onto a target, or drop a super. I hate afk cloaking, but at the moment it seems like a necessary evil.
30 second time delay on local would be cool though, people with Intel channels/scouts would still get out, but roaming gangs would actually be able to kill people/bots if they were just relying on local.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.03.04 00:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Also, so you can have FUN, its a game after all. If they remove local from nullsec I'm out of here, people want to greif thats fine but at the point where it becomes "Constantly hit the D-Scan button while trying to kill the rats, pulse a shield booster and cap booster, align every time some ship that you don't know shows up on your d-scan, just so you can get some isk to go PVP'ing" It doesn't need to be that hard. 0.0 is far betterer that highsec, no way in hell I'm running 4's again.  And my opinion on no local in 0.0:
It isn't wormholes space, there is imediate local. You dont like showing up in local every time you enter a system, start griefing in wormholes.
+1 to the stuff on removing local
Although I kind of disagree on the "griefing" thing, killing people who are trying to PvE isn't griefing, it's part of the game. It's something that a lot of people like about Eve, that even when grinding you aren't just battling NPCs, you're trying not to die to other players too. That aspect of the game is slowly going away, as conveniences like stations every few systems, jump bridge networks and carriers to transport ships become more and more common.
Personally, even though I'm a giant care bear, I want null sec to become more dangerous. For one thing, if life is more difficult all the faction/deadspace items I get are going to shoot up in price since bots can't get the faction stuff anymore and only skilled players would be able to collect dead space. Currently getting either of those types of item is simply a risk-free grind, it isn't about how skilled you are, it's about how much time you dedicate to scanning/pressing F1 in anomalies.
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Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
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Posted - 2012.03.04 01:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally, even though I'm a giant care bear, I want null sec to become more dangerous. For one thing, if life is more difficult all the faction/deadspace items I get are going to shoot up in price since bots can't get the faction stuff anymore and only skilled players would be able to collect dead space. Bots D-scan far better than you or I could ever do.
Hence the +1 for the stuff on not removing local.
If you scroll up, I also made a post about WH and null not being the same due to blops/titan bridges  Completely removing local isn't the only way to make null more dangerous.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.03.04 23:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Vastator wrote:While I do agree that delaying local for a few secs will definitely shake things up in null and EvE as a whole. I still don't believe it's needed. Take a look at threads with similar discussions and you can see that most of the peeps asking for this stuff DON'T LIVE IN NULL. They are either lowsec peeps, highsec bears or random peeps that think it's their duty to take care of bots.
If this change is even implemented, it should be present in all of EvE from lowsec to highsec and also including wh space. If you can't catch your targets within the 30sec delay, you've failed... go back home.
O hai, I live in null sec and I'm one of the most vocal out of the people asking for this stuff. I'm also confused as to what effect a 30 second local delay would have on wormholes.
One interesting thing is that the inverse of your claim is that a lot of the people crying out against these kind of proposals live in SoV null sec. As do I, and I can honestly say that a lot of people I know who live here too will cry and scream at the idea of null becoming more dangerous. They will also swear blind that null IS dangerous, and that they should be earning more than those darn incursion runners!
Then they'll go make a cup of coffee while their drones kill the rats in their haven.
The issue with this situation is that us "bitter vets" are perfectly safe in our ratting systems, we don't move anything expensive or interesting around except by jump freighter or carrier and we all have alts to scout. It also means that what happens when we go out killing? We focus on gate camping, or blitzing anomalies with ceptors and AFs in areas like providence where the players are (no offence guys) really stupid.
Experienced players are invulnerable, so we pick on noobs. That's what Eve has come down to.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.03.05 00:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
discordigant wrote:Take away local all together, we don't have it in WH's and can pawn people out of nowhere. It would force you scared null bears into more smaller sized engagements.
EDIT: Hell they even took away jump data from WH's and we love it, null has to catch up.
Read through thread, then post.
Thank you.
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Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
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Posted - 2012.03.05 00:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
discordigant wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:discordigant wrote:Take away local all together, we don't have it in WH's and can pawn people out of nowhere. It would force you scared null bears into more smaller sized engagements.
EDIT: Hell they even took away jump data from WH's and we love it, null has to catch up. Read through thread, then post. Thank you. Did and reiteration is still a good reason to post, but go back to your happy place were everyone agrees with your bad theories...
I propose we allow black ops drops, titan bridging and super capitals into wormholes.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
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Posted - 2012.03.05 01:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
discordigant wrote:Did and reiteration is still a good reason to post, but go back to your happy place were everyone agrees with your bad theories...
I propose we allow black ops drops, titan bridging and super capitals into wormholes.[/quote]
LOL some of your null mates on CSM are trying that already with their "WH stabaliser" Please feel free to add that, but then we would whine for moon goo to pay for some shiny new toys for us too. Go back to pvping in your 100man blobs and thinking your cool.[/quote]
Well, at least now I can safely rest in the certainty that you're just lazy, and haven't read the thread, rather than being an utter moron. Not that I'm ruling out you being an utter moron.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
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Posted - 2012.03.05 03:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
discordigant wrote:When you have nothing tangible to add or criticize, baseless attacks are your friend.
When you fail to realize a remark is sarcastic, because you haven't read the thread, you should probably stop posting.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
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Posted - 2012.03.05 03:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
discordigant wrote:When i have realized i am talking to a 12 year old that likes bashing his head against a brick wall i stop posting, that time has come.
It was nice trolling talking with you.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
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262
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Posted - 2012.03.05 05:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Vastator wrote:discordigant wrote:Take away local all together, we don't have it in WH's and can pawn people out of nowhere. It would force you scared null bears into more smaller sized engagements.
EDIT: Hell they even took away jump data from WH's and we love it, null has to catch up. You'll be shocked when what you've wanted so much gets implemented and then backfires when you least expect it. No local will require fleets to have more scouts constantly watching gates or to always be prepared for the worst case possible. Unlike whs were you have mass restrictions impeding mobility, k-space will be gank galore and moving in blobs will be the safest way to carry out effective pvp ops.
Not to mention the fact that we have black ops, supers and titan bridging. Not to mention the fact that unlike in WHs the defenders won't have a monopoly on capitals.
It might be safe to rely on d-scan for protection in a WH but in null sec the rats aren't going to swap targets to the newcomer, and there isn't going to be a delay between that recon landing/decloaking and back up arriving. The moment the cyno goes up you're dead.
All of this, and the other issues regarding the differences between local in null/WHs have been discussed to death before, in this thread and others. Delayed local seems like the only sensible approach, but even that needs some work. Too short a delay and it becomes pointless, too long and we'd just see fast ships constantly rushing ratting systems with a cyno fitted.
Ideally IMHO the time delay should be just a little bit less time than it takes to cross your average system in a small fast ship.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
Cascade Imminent
262
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Posted - 2012.03.05 05:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tarsus Zateki wrote:An AFK cloaking ship is no threat to you. Man up and go do your things. Better yet don't do them alone. Eve Online isn't a single player game.
The OP, and most the rest of us in this thread, want null sec made more dangerous. Turn auto-reply off
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.15 17:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Imma Eatcho Face wrote:
What is the deciding factor as to when this delay takes effect?
Ive been here all day. You jus showed up 5 minutes ago. Does it immediatly show me in local even though to your client i just arrived?
What happens if you dont spend a whole 5 minutes in system giving the delay a chance to see you?
If local was to be delayed would you be against a way to scan out cloaky ships?
What happens when your traveling a pipe and we know your comming because our scouts are 5 jumps out and have already detected you due to you showing in local 5 minutes after you have left?
If i have cloaky eyes on the gate you come in does it not make a gate activation animation?
And how about when you decloak to cloak and warp off. Do i not see you?
The 5 minute delay idea is nice. As long as you cant aggress for the five minutes that your invisible to me and the rest of my mates in system.
Does this delay have any true way of actually working for you or me? The same can be said for a wh as well. Just because we dont see anyone in local does not mean no on eis there.Do you think you are the only one being sneaky? We had cloaky eyes on the WH and seen you come in. The people not implementing scouts should be scrammed jammed and podded. Delay local 5 minutes and people will jus have alts 5 jumps out. No matter what we know that you know that your comming in and we knew it before you got to the second gate after the initial 5 minutes...
Leave local alone. Stop being a cloaky gaf.
Stop being a terrible alliance and defend your ratters/renters.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.15 17:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well, no, you're the care bears benefitting from instant local Intel. That's kind of my point.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.15 18:07:00 -
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Imma Eatcho Face wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Well, no, you're the care bears benefitting from instant local Intel. That's kind of my point. And your the gankbear that wants the game to be changed to suit your sneaky ways of forcing pvp onto hapless carebears. Kinda my point as well. F5 F5 F5 he may reply.
Your point seems to be that you cba with defence fleets, scouting or Intel channels and that you'd rather just be able to hide based on free Intel.
And don't give me that crap about forcing PvP, consensual PvP isn't the only play style and there are supposedly dangers associated with operating in null sec. Dangers that have been all but nullified in recent years.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.15 20:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kale Eledar wrote:I love cloaking, and I still think having trouble finding fights is a decent trade-off for, you know, being
completely effing invisible
The issue I have isn't with finding fights, if you can't find a fight in null you're an idiot, my issue is with risk.
Namely the fact that a lot of null sec isn't really very dangerous, it requires a bit more logistics to live there but that is it. And JFs and carriers make that logistics issue vanish instantly anyway.
Simply, I waslnt null sec to eventually be buffed for PvE. In order for that the happen, it needs to return to being a pain to run null logistics and free Intel needs to go.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:41:00 -
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Imma Eatcho Face wrote:My thoughts are neither for nor against the whole delayed local issue. They are based off of how it can work for both parties. I care not of how the Devs decide how we play. Defence fleets and intel channels we do have. And we protect who we can. But that isnt the topic and sidetracking me with your comments worked out great.
Enough trolling.
Answer some of my questions. Lets have a legit discussion. Carebears and gankbears aside. They are valid questions. Intel channels and scouts do know when you are comming anyway so why delay local?
Fair enough to be honest, I'll go through your questions from earlier and answer with how I feel delayed local would work. I'd also like to point out that I stand by my comment, cascade imminent, like a lot of other alliances, does not really form defense fleets. It just tells renters or ratters to dock up. Similarly I've never seen cascade bait an AFK cloaker into hot dropping, or otherwise ever engage a party roaming through.
(With the exception of DVS cloak, who obsessively hounds every single AFK cloaker who so much as considers cloaking up in H74. Or 77s8, wherever it is you're living now.)
Although bear in my mind I'm not particularly of the opinion that delayed local is the best solution, I do however happen to think it is the best solution that has been suggested so far in any of these threads.
Imma Eatcho Face wrote:
What is the deciding factor as to when this delay takes effect?
Ive been here all day. You jus showed up 5 minutes ago. Does it immediatly show me in local even though to your client i just arrived?
The most common suggestion is that local is delayed both for the new member to the system and for the occupants. Also worth noting most people don't want a 5 minute delay, personally I believe if delayed local were to be used it should be closer to a 30 second delay.
30 seconds is enough time to jump in, analyse and warp an AF/ceptor to a sanctum, but it is short enough that fleets cannot hope to pass through multiple systems without appearing on intel channels.
Imma Eatcho Face wrote:What happens if you dont spend a whole 5 minutes in system giving the delay a chance to see you?
Then you don't appear.
Imma Eatcho Face wrote:If local was to be delayed would you be against a way to scan out cloaky ships?
If local was delayed, and roaming gangs became viable again, then I would be fine with that. I believe CCP already have something in their database that would allow you to do this, the scanner array.
Imma Eatcho Face wrote:What happens when your traveling a pipe and we know your comming because our scouts are 5 jumps out and have already detected you due to you showing in local 5 minutes after you have left?
Then you dock up, get safe, and we get blue balled. If, however, we are clever and log off a scout at some point in an adjacent system or your ratting system then you will not have very much warning at all. Once a scout has logged in and come out of his emergency warp he could bridge in a gang or try to analyse and tackle something himself.
Again, with a 30 second delay you'd have some warning from that kind of log-on trap, especially given the emergency warp. But it would even the playing field considerably.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:41:00 -
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Imma Eatcho Face wrote:If i have cloaky eyes on the gate you come in does it not make a gate activation animation?
And how about when you decloak to cloak and warp off. Do i not see you?
Yes, and if you have a scout on the gate you'd presumably get everyone to dock up. Only the idiots not on teamspeak or watching intel would die. As opposed to currently, when all you need to do is watch local.
Imma Eatcho Face wrote:The 5 minute delay idea is nice. As long as you cant aggress for the five minutes that your invisible to me and the rest of my mates in system.
That does somewhat defeat the point to be honest.
Imma Eatcho Face wrote:Does this delay have any true way of actually working for you or me? The same can be said for a wh as well. Just because we dont see anyone in local does not mean no on eis there.Do you think you are the only one being sneaky? We had cloaky eyes on the WH and seen you come in. The people not implementing scouts should be scrammed jammed and podded. Delay local 5 minutes and people will jus have alts 5 jumps out. No matter what we know that you know that your comming in and we knew it before you got to the second gate after the initial 5 minutes...
The idea isn't to be able to kill people who are paying attention with scouts out for 5 jumps in every direction, those people deserve to be safe. The idea is to kill people who don't have scouts out, and rely purely on local intel to dock up and hide.
Anyway, I hope that explains the changes most people want a little better. Obviously I can speak only for myself, but most of us don't want to make null sec a complete death trap. Just a little bit of a death trap.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.19 22:56:00 -
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Crellion wrote:No it doesnt... in five minutes I can be cloaked 2.99 kms from them watching local and the moment my face appears in local I hit approach and mwd and bump them... there purpose entirely undefeated, though some spaceships might be 
Yeah but that means every time anyone enters local they can't do anything for 5 minutes :/
If you think the mechanics behind preventing aggressive acts through, it kind of screws up fleets. There are plenty of legitimate situations the introduction of such a mechanic would completely ruin.
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Simi Kusoni
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Posted - 2012.04.23 09:35:00 -
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Dilligafmofo wrote:IMO Nullsec should not have any local channel by default. It should be an upgradable option by the sov owner.
A) This completely defeats the point.
B) NPC null is **** enough as it is.
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