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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 10:36:00 -
[1]
I have actually never posted a thread about this before, but I thought I'd take a shot.
I've been dabbling around in a game called RF Online which is sort of cool. It's a mix of a lot of games and it's sort of fresh to try.
Anyway, in the game there are very prominent bots/farmers. The bots are annoying because they're used by players mostly but the farmers are worse because they run around in droves making life miserable for completing certain missions.
So I thought about my life in EVE. It's pretty nice. I don't have to deal with isk farmers hardly ever, except for watching them pass through the gates all the time. Then it struck me. I do have to deal with them on an almost regular basis.
Even though they mostly do missions in deadspace flying their obscene numbers of CNRs, they wind up causing issues when I am trying to find people to kill. They create false images on the map (for example, 60 players in a system... 50 of them are isk farmers) and it ruins my day. Travelling to those systems just to find out they're full of farmers is very discouraging.
What's worse is the hauler farmers barely even carry anything of note or anything worth shooting at. They haul mission loot which has virtually zero value to anybody not running the mission. Furthermore, they are damned resilient and have figured out ways to "avoid" conflict.
My issue is sort of a twofold one. The first is the fact that.. and dare I say.. they actually have been doing one thing for so long that I bet they're actually pretty skilled at it. I recall one incident where I saw my first isk farmer in a Navy Megathron (no clue.) I saw it had no fittings in the highs so I though easy kill.
Wrong.. it had 7 WCS and 1 1600mm RRTP. So... I got a fleet together to kill it a few days later. This time it brought two CNR friends with it. (This was in OMS btw). We engaged the Navy Mega and the CNRs unloaded a literal ton of dps on us. The sad part is the tiny fleet that we had couldn't stand up to them, and it upset me personally that someone who doesn't even play the game for enjoyment was able to beat our tiny band of farmer killers. They didn't even fit scramblers or anything. They just retaliated with force.
I don't really know where I'm going with this, I'm kind of rambling. Anyway what I'd like to say is I find it obscene that they have created a formula to make money with and that they are effective at it. They have probably been told by their supervisors a list of things to not do, for example 1) Do not allow yourself to be canflipped. If it happens, warp. 2) Do not enter lowsec without stabs. 3) Only do these missions, reject others etc blah blah. Ugh it's so frustrating.
For some reason they can make billions a day and are successful and while I snicker at other MMOs for being overrun by farmers, looking at EVE we sort of have the same problem. It is shrouded by deadspaces however. In other games you are all on the same field. In EVE you get to warp to your own little hideaway to complete your goal, so it is not intrusive on others. But CCP... in my opinion you should seriously buck up and destroy the accounts for people that are violating your game.
I know that they per se do not "sell" isk, they give it to others that do. But if you could open your eyes and just see these players that have ridiculous names and check their logs and wallets and see they are doing the same thing 23/7 you would be able to slap bans on them.. which would make the galaxy a better place for all of us.
No stupid steps or drastic measures... just a little risk for CCP. If you ban them and they bring forward legitimate complaints and can prove to you in more ways than one that they are not isk farming to participate in RMT, then unban them. But I think that taking a few sweeping actions against players in crowded or otherwise inconspicuous areas that SEEM like isk farmers PROBABLY are.
Thanks. -sigh-
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fuze
Gallente
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.04.25 10:53:00 -
[2]
A few days ago I read an article on a website about fighting isk farmers in general. I can't find it anymore but it basically claimed that attempts of fighting them were moot since there weren't any significant changes in prices. Except for a few cases where the price spiked for a month or so.
It showed that across the board of all MMO have these problems and that isk farming has become a multi million dollar business.
People keep doing RMT and fighting it has little or no effect. Stopping fighting will make it probably worse though.
But its really hurting Eve since CCP are missing out on a large amount of revenues they could have get with GTC sales. |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 10:58:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 25/04/2008 11:03:40
That is eye-opening and agreeable.
But I wasn't complaining for sake of ingame item prices or anything. I was sort of trying to discuss how they imbalance the game with their presence. They get in the way, quite literally of finding targets when you go out to roam and every time you see a nice juicy CNR or something you think "gah, it's an isk farmer, they're trained to avoid you" and what not.
They're just in the way :(
And I'll reiterate my last statement: if CCP took a risk and started banning their accounts, they would find they would get a few people caught by accident. Even one of my corpmates got caught up in it and it was quite sucky. However with some warm and sincere apologies and possibly some free game time it could be a solid start on solving this problem. And, it would serve them well as they could correct it and then as you said they would be able to make more money with GTCs.
Unlike other games, money in EVE is made relatively slowly at lower character ages. You have to spend quite some time just training learning skills in order to get into a ship. It can take a solid month or two before they're in haulers making level 4 courier missions beneficial to their movement. If CCP could knock them while they're training learning skills or running couriers in the first couple months before they get into their CNRs and start shelling out isk in the billions they could potentially win the war on isk farmers.
And while it may inconvenience CCP because they would have to deal with a large volume of "my account got banned" mails and letters.. they can definitely handle it. If they can hire a real life accountant then I am positive they can get a few people to handle day in and day out monitoring and response to isk farmers. It's possible! To see CCP with a name for stomping isk farmers where they start would be quite a feat for an MMO. And I have faith in CCP to do it.
Something to think about.
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:05:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 25/04/2008 11:03:40
And I'll reiterate my last statement: if CCP took a risk and started banning their accounts, they would find they would get a few people caught by accident.
They are banning them. I can not understand what is your point.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:09:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 25/04/2008 11:10:52
Originally by: Darth Felin
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 25/04/2008 11:03:40
And I'll reiterate my last statement: if CCP took a risk and started banning their accounts, they would find they would get a few people caught by accident.
They are banning them. I can not understand what is your point.
Faster. Like, don't wait until they give you "beyond reasonable doubt" and just do it when you THINK they're an isk farmer.
There are telltale signs of isk farmers that hardly any other players show. Examples are they stick to one system daily, and immediately move up to a certain type of ship/skill path that would be to perfect an isk farming character. They have odd names that make no sense. Some may log in from certain IPs that share a lot in common (if you get a group behind a router this is a good one). They buy faction items as soon as they can. They might not ever chat. I don't know HOW they work but I can speculate based on what I see.
I mean there's all sorts of ways. My question (this is mostly rhetoric) is if players can spot a farmer from a million miles away, why can't CCP just ban them outright?
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
But I wasn't complaining for sake of ingame item prices or anything. I was sort of trying to discuss how they imbalance the game with their presence. They get in the way, quite literally of finding targets when you go out to roam and every time you see a nice juicy CNR or something you think "gah, it's an isk farmer, they're trained to avoid you" and what not.
Isk farmer or not, pretty much anyone in a CNR doing missions or whatnot will try to avoid pvp'ers.
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Elayanith deVries
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:14:00 -
[7]
So you are complaining that the CNR pilots are trained to avoid you......
Well thats an interesting point of view. One could also take the view that they provide you with targets and the challenge to overcome their "system" and their training.
Not that I like ISK-farmers and I agree that their impact on this great game isnt for the better for sure. It was just the direction your argument
came from that gave me pause and a small chuckle.
Wish you best of luck and happy hunting.
With best regards.
Elayanith
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
and it upset me personally that someone who doesn't even play the game for enjoyment was able to beat our tiny band of farmer killers
You're making wayyyyy too many assumptions.
Oh what's that? Your tiny, innocent, peace-loving band of pirates wasn't able to kill a missionrunner? poor Siig 
at least admit that you only want carebear tears, geeeeez. 
...
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:20:00 -
[9]
After reading your responses, I think my point has been missed.
The problem is not that they fly omg CNRs all over and I don't get to blow them up. There was that one instance where I found a Navy Mega and the only reason I brought it up is that I was suprised at its fittings and that they acknowledged that people will try to blow them up.
My issue is that they simply get in the way. They're a public nuisance and all I'm trying to suggest is that there should be ways to be more pro-active in phasing them out of the game.
Not everything a person posts here on the forums has to be a whine or a complaint or a pro-something statement. I was just thinking about it today, that's all.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
The problem is not that they fly omg CNRs all over and I don't get to blow them up. There was that one instance where I found a Navy Mega and the only reason I brought it up is that I was suprised at its fittings and that they acknowledged that people will try to blow them up.
So tell me Siig, Is there something wrong with outsmarting you?
Quote:
My issue is that they simply get in the way. They're a public nuisance and all I'm trying to suggest is that there should be ways to be more pro-active in phasing them out of the game.
Public nuisance in your eyes. In their eyes, you're a public nuisance.
They like making ISK. It just so happens that L4 missions and 0.0 ctrl-Q ratting are the safest, most effortless ways of doing so.
As long as the option to 'grind' for progress in the game exists, you'll have 'farmers' with nothing better to do spending their entire day doing it, all to make a number go up. There isn't really an easy nerf to it 
...
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Elayanith deVries
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:41:00 -
[11]
In the case of the navy mega you described. The second time you met him you tried to kill him and he had 2 CNR friends which put out to much damage for your little gang to finish him.
It looks like a) This seems to be an active ISK-farmer. ( no macro )
b) He is organized enough to have friends who bail him out.
c) He ( and friends ) gave you a fight.
Looking over all this, people were pvping and making money on the side.
So if they gave the ISK to a seller ( no prove I assume ) and the seller found an idiot who bought the ISK ( which takes a lot of fun out of the game for the buyer but gives you the chance to kill stupid people in expensive ships )then they did something wrong.
From my point of view CCP should first get the drop on the sellers, then on the macro ISK-farmers and then on the sweat shop farmers you imply to have met.
Of course I am sure CCP would be happy if you had an innovative idea of how to whisk all these ISK-farmers and sellers ( and only them ) away.
Until then I am sure they are doing a lot to at least contain the problem as
much as possible.
With best regards.
Elaynith
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:46:00 -
[12]
Remember this thread?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=616462
Anyone that wants a quick look at what an isk farmer looks like, while in game search for the player with milk. Show info then click on the Show Contracts button.
I'm not exactly sure what Siigari is on about, but one thing is certain. This community has a short memory. That's good for the farmers I guess...
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Elayanith deVries
Of course I am sure CCP would be happy if you had an innovative idea of how to whisk all these ISK-farmers and sellers ( and only them ) away.
That's the thing though. There is no "fix-all" solution without involving risk to CCP. If there was a risk-free solution I think they'd have figured it out by now.
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fuze
Gallente
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:50:00 -
[14]
CCP doesn't care if that number goes up for them. It's when it goes down (fast).
But if you won't let it increase it cannot drop. Simple maths. |
Brun Thorvald
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:53:00 -
[15]
My basic reply to this is
"Pirates are getting dumber".
Lemme get this straight. You, piwate that you are, got pwned by someone you thought was an isk farmer.
He he he.
I do hope you didnt fly anything you werent prepared to lose.
Let me give you an alternative. The alleged isk farmer was actually a hardcore PvP type that was earning in Empire to continue their PvP hobby.
Finally, display some balls, piwate. Head to 0.0 and conduct your trade there.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 11:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Brun Thorvald
My basic reply to this is
"Pirates are getting dumber".
Lemme get this straight. You, piwate that you are, got pwned by someone you thought was an isk farmer.
He he he.
I do hope you didnt fly anything you werent prepared to lose.
Let me give you an alternative. The alleged isk farmer was actually a hardcore PvP type that was earning in Empire to continue their PvP hobby.
Finally, display some balls, piwate. Head to 0.0 and conduct your trade there.
I can throw your argument out the window that with a little common sense: no 1 month old player named "it goes" flying a Navythron would have 2 friends named "fjdaldfk" and "qierots" flying in CNRs that are also 1 month old dishing out enough damage to scare away a few battlecruisers without being isk farmers designed to do tons of damage fast.
They didn't have points. Who PVPs without points? I mean there's too many red flags that signal farmer to me.
And, now I'm sorry I've brought it up because it's derailing the thread.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 12:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 25/04/2008 11:59:54
double post
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.25 12:22:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Winterblink on 25/04/2008 12:22:36
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
They didn't have points. Who PVPs without points? I mean there's too many red flags that signal farmer to me.
Who? People who would rather out-tank and out damage you, being more than well aware that holding you there against your will is pointless. They're the reason you're there in the first place, after all.
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Tristel
Gallente
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.25 12:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tristel on 25/04/2008 12:41:31
There's corps in Venal that hold space and rent that space to ISK farmers. We try to keep scouts in the systems because the farmers wont pay them rent if they can't farm hostile free.
Most of the active ISK farmers in 0.0 are not pushovers tbh.
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Tssa
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.25 15:34:00 -
[20]
seriously, wtf are you on about?
So far I've read:
1. you thought you found an easy mark
2. tried to take out easy mark, got butt handed to you
3. ****ed cuz marks refused to die in their faction BS
Now, granted, the macro farmers are a pita, but from a consumer side, I really don't care. They make stuff cheaper so I get to buy more stuff for less, woot. If my income was from selling mins, then I could probably be arsed to care.
Missions are boring...ratting is boring...if someone wants to do it to make their isk, why is that an issue? I, personally, have to spend a fair amount of time ratting to support my PvP habits, but you don't hear me whining about it. It just is. If you can finance your pirating via your pirating, good show. But, seriously, if you're gonna whine about people trying to defend their own assets, can you please make a cogent point sometime in the first couple of paragraphs?
Let's have a traditional thanks giving this year...invite the neighbors over for dinner..then kill 'em and salvage the wrecks!
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.04.25 15:48:00 -
[21]
So flying in one system exclusively for an extended period is enough evidence to convict on isk farming? Please... You just condemned almost every player in 0.0 with that tripe. As far as singular focus training, that's a given for anyone up intends to mission or rat efficiently in any ship, and don't dare twllus that every CNR you see is an isk farmer. You might want t to be true, but your fantasies don't define reality. And even I've stabbed my ship to the hilt to move it from empire to no sec.
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device. |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.25 17:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Janu Hull
So flying in one system exclusively for an extended period is enough evidence to convict on isk farming
I said sometimes, I made no sweeping generalizations. |
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