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x racer
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.27 14:25:00 -
[1]
So let me see if I get this concept:
Some people who dont like being able to see everyone in a system want to replace the tool that CCP gives us to see everyone in a system (Local) with a new role or skill to accomplish the same thing?
Please tell me what I am missing. I fail to see what any of the many many proposals to replace Local accomplish that has a different end result than the current system except to create a time delay in finding out who is in local by making people have a dedicated scout/skills/role of some sort. This makes no sense to me because most everyone doing anything important enough allready has someone scouting.
If there really is a problem with Local, how about simply a time delay on people appearing in local? Say 30 secs for high sec, 1 min for low sec or 2 mins for 0.0 for example? I have not seen a proposal that does not have the same net effect, without making a player train up for, or be dedicated to another new specific role.
Every proposal to replace local with something else, no matter a timer, a dedicated role, scanning, whatever, will have the net effect of slowing down travel. I have seen no proposal that would not have that net effect. Is that what we want? I think travel is slow enough allready, personally.
To summarise:
What local channel replacement proposal would not have the net effect of slowing down travel and/or requiring dedicated player to do something to find out who is in local? Cuz NOBODY thats doing anything important enough will just go careening blindly through space. And its allready hard enough to find a good scout without making it a high skill specialty.
Discuss:
X
PS, Beware the law of unintended consequences.
But, but, but, DB Preacher told me there are no goons! |
Asestorian
Domination.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.27 14:51:00 -
[2]
Well, your two negatives are seen by some people as a positive effect. It's the opinion of many veteran players that space has become too small as EVE has grown, due to the fact that travel is so much easier and faster than it used to be. Some people also really like the idea of players specialising in specific roles all the time, though I have a feeling that this specific idea would have less support.
Overall the current problem with local as people see it is that it's far too easy to avoid combat through it's use. Primarily this is noticed by farmer ravens in 0.0 logging off or going to a safespot and cloaking as soon as someone enters local. The debate did die down, but it has flared up again now that it has come to the attention of the majority of forum users that the logserver allows programs like BACON to exist, and essentially automate this escape from death (even if the released version of BACON doesn't do this, the principle is there).
Of course, on the flip side people are saying that this would make it far too easy for PvPers to gank them.
Essentially we can summarize this as a classic debate between the hardcore EVE purists, and the casual players (usually more recent arrivals to the game). On one side we have those who have been playing the game from the beginning or near to it, and want everything to be dangerous, difficult and require a group effort to achieve, and the other want things to be easier, safer and achievable by casual or solo players.
Both sides have far too much of an agenda to be right 
---
 Quote:
Welcome to EVE, a PvP game where people are - shockingly - allowed to PvP as much as they like.
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MineralOel Steuer
Amarr
OP EC
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Posted - 2008.04.27 14:52:00 -
[3]
local is a devil's tool! |
northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.04.27 14:54:00 -
[4]
why dont you talk about local chat in the other thread?
Trinity Corporate Services
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Kale Kold
Caldari
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.04.27 14:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: x racer
So let me see if I get this concept:
Some people who dont like being able to see everyone in a system want to replace the tool that CCP gives us to see everyone in a system (Local) with a new role or skill to accomplish the same thing?
Lol! you nailed it! Stupid isn't it! 
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cyberdog
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.27 14:56:00 -
[6]
Why have 32000020432032 threads suddently appeared about local?
Has a devblob been published where they say they are going to remove it?
If so, url?
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MineralOel Steuer
Amarr
OP EC
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Posted - 2008.04.27 14:57:00 -
[7]
yeah let's start threads about buffing AF's |
x racer
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.27 15:33:00 -
[8]
Thank you Asestorian for a reasoned and thoughtful response. Gonna have to think about the vets vs newer players thing.
I know that whatever CCP decides to do, if anything, it will be a small step and unlikely to be considered as enough for one side of the discussion, and far too large a step for the other.
cheers
x
But, but, but, DB Preacher told me there are no goons! |
Sergio Ling
Veto.
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Posted - 2008.04.27 16:50:00 -
[9]
I think there's enough treads about this. |
aka Ishur
Stormwolf Holdings LLC
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Posted - 2008.04.27 17:05:00 -
[10]
Um ... whats BACON? ....and now I'm hungry....great.... |
Darth Ninjabadger
Caldari
m3 Corp
Friend or Enemy
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Posted - 2008.04.27 17:39:00 -
[11]
There are good reasons to remove local and a few issues with it as well.
The good reason is that it automatically gives you a rundown of everyone in system with a full biography / length of service and corp/alliance affiliations so you can quickly decide to stay in system or leave. This is always a powerful intel tool and used extensively when hunting reds. This is bad because there is no exploration or skill to determining if there is a target in system.
A better alternative is a more active version of the directional scanner akin to the motion tracker in Aliens (preferably with the same sound effect) which you can use to triangulate targets but is also an active defense against pirates. Maybe skill based but tbh Timesinks are a little heavy already with learning skills etc. As long as there is an 'Active' proximity alarm at whatever range 5,10,20,50AU I think local then looses some of it's purpose and we can start to look at alternatives.
No onto the downside. The Local channel is the perfect way to converse with new people you meet. Without local starting off in the game becomes more complicated as you would need to know the name of someone to talk to them. Leaving the chat without the people would give you the option to speak and until then it masks the users. I think this only works in conjunction with the 1st tool as without it no one will be talking to minimize the risk of exposure.
I also still like the idea of the dedicated intel pilot, maybe hacking could be used on the gate to ***** the local list. Fun to do but risky as it could spark a warning in the local channel with a percentage based on a skill?
Just some ideas, I do feel that it is too much intel all at once but it has to be replaced with care. |
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