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Wreckoning

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Shango Colebra Minmatar Dinochrome Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.27 17:48:00 - [1] Once Again, This Is Rumor Control, Here Are The Facts Before I begin, let me be clear. What I say comes from me, it is not intended as DCB's thoughts or opinions, merely my own. Since I do not see my opinion as carrying any real weight in Hydra decision or protocol, it should not matter. However, I would be remiss if I were not to address the opinions and accusations currently floating throughout VALE OF THE SILENT concerning DCB and its members. Mutiny It has been said that DCB are mutineers. POSTFU. We have never and shall never seek to control HYDRA, however, it's seem that the multi-heads of HYDRA are neither looking in nor going in the same direction. If there is some great plan in the works there must be clarity. The mass exodus of corp's and pilots from HYDRA is not merely evidence that these folks do not agree with HYDRA's direction but that there is something very wrong here. There has been no balance nor unity. Deeper still, it seems that DCB as had a lot of the past confusion and dissention laid at their feet. We've been accused in no uncertain terms of attempting an overthrow of current leadership. Mutiny implies taking over or taking control of an entity. In fact, I have always had confidence in BirdieTheBest's leadership and are happy to see him take full control of HYDRA. I only pray that his choices in those that carry out his direction are as trustworthy as he is. Tammahawk Tamma is one of the first people I encountered coming in to 0.0. He taught me survival and how to rat efficiently and effectivly. He's been nothing but a friend to me. I find the constant back-biting and ridicule of this man very unsettling. To criticize his skills as a FC is to imply that you can and will do better. I'm therefore sure that the next time RED's decide to take a tour of VALE, there will be well organized fleets in every system Hydra controls, FC'd by the finest minds in the alliance. Far too often I have seen him step to the ready line willing to sacrifice ship, implant and clone to protect OUR space. I'm sure your help would do greater good than your criticism and ridicule. I was also not aware that an extreme acuity for properly written and spoken english was a prerequisite to play this game. Ventrilo Two days before BlueP removed Hydra access to their ventrilo server, I obtained and began to set up a vent server. This server was set up to allow Hydra to have clear comms and since ventrilo had been the previous server of choice, it was assumed there would be no complications. There was a slight delay in full alliance access but only to better understand and implement secure comms. Several pilots from every corp were contacted and asked to determine a corp admin for this server. No secrecy was intended or implied. Yet, it seems that I and my corp were trying to "buck the trend" when ventrilo access info was posted in alliance mail. Minds Of Space, if you have seen this as an attempt to undermine your server, you have missed my point completely. Oh and TS sucks when it comes to server audio quality, ask around. "Beyond dialect, all I want is respect."
Shango Colebra Minmatar Dinochrome Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.27 17:48:00 - [2] Balance It is evident that HYDRA lacks balance. An industrialist should be able to enjoy what he does in the game and reap the benefits of it. It is unwise and unfair to ask an industrialist to man a T2 vessel and effectively engage the types of battle-hardened pilots we see on a daily basis, if he is pvp curious and wants to try his hand is a different matter. But to send out a call to arms and expect results comparable to having true pvpers in every ship is ludicrous and bumps up losses on the killboard. A corp is as only as strong as its weakest pilot. An alliance is only as strong as its weakest corp. Without sounding condescending, someone knowledgeable needs to address new corps, in particular PVP corps, on what it takes to survive in 0.0 space. In particular on what it takes to survive in HYDRA. Both pvper and industrial must come to see, understand and build on their interdependence. If he does not mine, invent and build, I do not fly cost effectively. If I do not fly and engage, he is not free to move about to mine or rat. Together your steps are ordered, your goals accomplished. And yet, industrialists insist that it is sacrilege to pay a pvper to do what he does for the enjoyment of the game. If the pvper were supported and acknowledged as an integral and equal part of this alliance, you would have a sword that your detractors would respect and you would have far less unpaid tours through the Vale.The fact is, if you pay him he will only spend the money for more ships and mods. Ships and mods you built and placed on market at attractive prices. Wouldn't that be driving your own market? And is that so wrong? This need not be full support, think of it as a supplement to stimulate market growth. By the same token, pvpers need to be diverse in their income streams and perhaps in their membership. Deeper still, what stops an industrial corp from "adopting" a pvp corp or a pvp corp providing secure space for a mining corp. There is a way Hydra, find it or perish is all I'm saying. No disrespect. If you do you won't be able to hold back the flood of excellent pvp and industrial corps wanting to join you. Then you'll be able to greet both friend and foe alike"Welcome to Hydra, We Build and Destroy. Within 20 minutes of posting this on Hydra forums, my corp's forum rights were revoked. Within 30 minutes of that we were kicked from the alliance. Were it left up to a select few in Hydra's "high command" we would have been left neutral, assets stranded and been forced to fight our way out of Vale. That was a ***** move Hydra. Granted, our CEO did make a very pointed and scathing post but it was devoid of foul language and named no one. It was how he felt and for that only he can hold himself accountable. Was it justified? Maybe he was tired of being gaggged and finally had to say what was necessary. You locked that thread and every other thread from DCB. You set the table. You decided what was on the menu. You served it up. Time for the check. "Beyond dialect, all I want is respect."
Shango Colebra Minmatar Dinochrome Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.27 17:49:00 - [3] Here are the facts: Fact: It has been made clear that you are an industrial alliance and you intend to keep it that way. You have chocked out as many pvp corps in your ranks as possible in order to maintain this status. They threaten your control of the alliance. Fact: It has also been made clear that you do not intend to supplement your pvp corps in any way, as you yourselves put it " we are not going to pay pvpers for doing what they enjoy. Yet the alliance wallet has a tab called Mercs. These are pvpers in the purest sense of the word. This is unacceptable. Fact: With so few in the alliance stepping to the ready line, you force the true pvpers amoung you to spend all their time defending your part of Vale, leaving no time to recoup losses. This forces some to piracy or buying and selling gtcs to survive. This also is unacceptable. Fact: Your FC's are worked like dogs and treated as such. They grow weary of seeing 150 - 200 in alliance chat. Yet when it's time to step to the ready line 15 - 20, maybe thirty show up ill fitted and not ready for battle, lacking in skill, will and desire. The call ought to be "get ready" not "get safe". This is Vale of the Silent, this is 0.0. There is no safe. Fact: Your resources are distributed unevenly and unfairly. A very small handful of corps hog the lions share of the valuable moons in Hydra space. Thus the most wealth available goes only to a few. Most unacceptable. Fact: We as a corp decided to exersize our right and responsibility to the alliance to see that it had leadership that would hold the wellbeing of every corp no matter how small above all else.When we called a meeting on ventrilo, it was to that end.Our vote was to another corp and pilot. Not DCB. As I have stated before,"we do not wish to control Hydra". Fact: Nearly everyone in Hydra knew that we were leaving. Some knew before our less active members did. Had you left us the hell alone we would be some 30 jumps from Vale moving on as a corp. Instead you chose to flex your muscle and attempt to cripple us by keeping whatever assets we still have in Vale. At present we have corpmates who have no clue they are in hostile space 'til they log on. Fact: This is not the alliance the founder of Hydra envisioned. When we joined this alliance, Comstar gave his word that we would defend hydra space. You should thank CCP or whatever crusty little in-game gods you pray to for it is his finger in the dike. Truth, some of our pilots have left to pursue their own vendettas. That is their choice and to be expected. From where I sit it was you who broke faith with us. You have chosen ...............poorly. Bear in mind, to associate yourself or your corp with DCB is to have suspicion and doubt cast upon yourself. Make no mistake, we do still have friends in Hydra who we wish no harm but if they stay we will not be responsible. If they engage.....well. Sshh, ya here that? That's the sound of "heavy boots of lead", ............................better get safe. We're comin' for that ass Hydra. Shango Colebra Fly Free Shoot Straight Speak The Truth And Bring Pie "Beyond dialect, all I want is respect."
Jim Linger D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.27 17:51:00 - [4] The Great Wall of Text i'm not an alt i just post like one
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.04.27 17:53:00 - [5] tl,dr
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.27 17:55:00 - [6] hey guys, sad to hear that drama, whatever happened. still a big hi from retired-from-eve-land to all involved or not in hydra ------ Tides of Silence
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.04.27 18:11:00 - [7] None of this is really a surprise as carebears make the worst alliance leaders and members in my experience as all they care about is how much they can make. Making isk for pvpers is to buy ships and mods to fight with, carebears make isk for fun as odd as that sounds. You will never have internal peace in a alliance led by carebears as they will always ***** about who gets what and how much instead of just playing the game as a team/alliance.
Wesley Baird D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.27 18:23:00 - [8] And now you know why Angel and Illum left your failed alliance...oops wrong failed carebear alliance!
Another Exgirlfriend Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.27 18:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Wesley Baird And now you know why Angel and Illum left your failed alliance...oops wrong failed carebear alliance! lolerskates!!!
Attak Trioptimum	Posted - 2008.04.27 18:59:00 - [10] tl;dr : HYDRA is full of carebears, leadership sucks and we left. I especially liked the part about "it is ludicrous to expect an industrialist to show up for fleet operations"
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.27 19:07:00 - [11] What i don¦t get it is: Why don¦+t you kick them out of vale?Form an alliance yourself and try to dislodge them. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Miss Manners Gallente BlackTIde Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.27 20:53:00 - [12] i don not approve of these lies
Sopha Serpentia Core Dynamics	Posted - 2008.04.27 22:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Pesadel0 What i don¦t get it is: Why don¦+t you kick them out of vale?Form an alliance yourself and try to dislodge them. What he said
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.27 22:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Pesadel0 What i don¦t get it is: Why don¦+t you kick them out of vale?Form an alliance yourself and try to dislodge them. I kinda make it out that he is in a Sim City type of Industrialist corp rather than a balanced or pure pvp one. Thats why he is on the forums saying that he is the victim insted of having some pride and making a attempt at kicking their ass's and asking others to join in. -- Billion Isk Mission
Sacul Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.04.27 23:05:00 - [15] Edited by: Sacul on 27/04/2008 23:06:04 I thought this was about my corp but a glance at the wall of txt assured me it was ok. There isnt that much to say about us. If these are the "facts" i dont wanna hear the rumours tbh The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones!
Ranger802004 Caldari Unitary Senate Unitary Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.28 06:12:00 - [16] I read 2 lines and thought "What's over on General Discussion"
spudnick225 Dinochrome Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.28 06:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Pesadel0 What i don¦t get it is: Why don¦+t you kick them out of vale?Form an alliance yourself and try to dislodge them. 1 step ahead of you buddy just keep an eve on the sov map
Sun Takkara GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 08:38:00 - [18] Oh the drama!! "What we do in life echoes in eternity"
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.04.28 12:37:00 - [19] It's pretty simple, you guys lost when you recruited people like Alois Hammer and Tammahawk. They are only good at failing. Their previous alliance was fail too, Slammer's Republic. Ask anyone in the Providence area how bad those people are.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 12:43:00 - [20] With regards to balance, surely you should not fly what you can't afford to lose? Thus if you can't afford to lose your ship as a pvper, you shouldn't be flying it. If an industrial corp, player or industrial arm of a corp then decides to furnish you with a new ship because you lost yours in pvp, then that is their prerogative. The alternative side is that when an industrial corp or element joins an alliance, it is made clear that their efforts will be exclusively geared toward the mutual benefit of all the alliance. It is then the responsibility of directors and CEO's to ensure that cash is spend appropriately so as to strike a balance between further industrial investment and ensuring that current investments are correctly protected through funding of pvp corps to protect said investments I would suggest that a number of 0.0 holding alliances, Hydra apparently being one of them from the op's description, do not have a clear idea about just how they operate with regards to industrialists
cheese monkey ASSASSIN SYNDICATE Penumbra Unleashed	Posted - 2008.04.28 14:40:00 - [21] no one cares, hydra fail.
Sun Takkara GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:13:00 - [22] Originally by: cheese monkey no one cares, hydra fail. Guess you care enough to post... And spend isk on wars against us... "What we do in life echoes in eternity"
JoDirt Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:30:00 - [23] Originally by: cheese monkey no one cares, hydra fail. Nice broadsword fit.. I needed a good laugh, thanks
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:42:00 - [24] What boggles me is that I'm poised to taunt some ex-Slammer's post here, but it basically makes sense and expresses reasonable thoughts. Sure, I can nit pick the details, riddicule Tammahawk's FC prowess, or go grammar-****, but it kinda um, works? Before I implode in a puff of continuity, good luck Shango. That felt so weird.
Heartcarver X Bane X Soldiers Of New Eve	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:43:00 - [25] Is the op title supposed to be a play on words or is the correct spelling off....? "The point of war isn't to die for your country, it's to make the other bastard die for his"
Alois Hammer Minmatar Dinochrome Brigade	Posted - 2008.04.28 19:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio It's pretty simple, you guys lost when you recruited people like Alois Hammer and Tammahawk. They are only good at failing. Their previous alliance was fail too, Slammer's Republic. Ask anyone in the Providence area how bad those people are. lol i can tell that olav is still ****ed they had to give us terms rather than be embarrased at the frikin losses incurred buy the "carebears" that Slammers were....... am i bad?? you bet yer azz!! and proud of it!!! just think , as a complete noob i get mentioned on here , by a so-called "pvp-er" you supposedly are...lol must be damn embarrasing to even talk bout me huh???
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:47:00 - [27] Ah that's better. Alois puts everything back into perspective. You realize that the last time you fought us Alois you disbanded your entire alliance, personally lost 4 carriers all by yourself, and pretty much the only losses ever inflicted were by your POSes. So if that's somehow something to feel good about, hey man, go for it. Sounds like you're having fun again. I'll go ahead and withdraw any positive sentiment towards Shango. Simply having someone like this in your corp defines you all by itself. You will always be treated like idiots as a group while you harbor idiots like this within.
JonasML	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:20:00 - [28] Edited by: JonasML on 30/04/2008 02:21:56 Hmm, seems there was a few facts left out here.... Fact: Within a few weeks of joining Hydra, DCB took it upon themselves to go corp to corp lobying to have the executor corp changed. Fact: A now ex-member of DCB was the first to complain about moons....the moons were evenly distibuted, to corps that could properly use them, ie process reactions, not just sell the mins. Fact: After several drama-fests and accusations by that same ex-member, he was pulled into a council meeting, after which all these matters were supposed to be cleared up. Fact: DCB CEO has a very busy RL, and has little or no control over many of his members, as evidenced by his unwillingness to muzzle certain offensive persons. Fact: Pure PVP corps always bitc* about industrialists, and vice-versa. Hydra is balanced, and corps that have a hard time being self-sufficient will always fail. we have several that will be merging due to low active member counts, it happens everywhere all the time. Fact: The founder of Hydra moved on to something else. As the inheriters of his mountains of paperwork and such, it is true some of our alliance leaders don't make as many pvp ops as they would like.....on the other hand, many of them are in the complete opposite tz of most of DCB too, so how the hell would they know? Fact: Tammahawk did a very good job during his time as our Military Commander. However, there were several disparaging remarks about him that came from other members of DCB, soooooo......pot, kettle, black? Fact: We have nothing but the greatest respect for DCB, for myslef it is particulary Comstar and Alois, but some of them have big mouths and it's been getting them in ****.
Gashon Gallente The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 04:04:00 - [29] Oh I don't know Jonas.... I did quite enjoy terminating their clone contracts yesterday. And please don't feed the trolls. Remember, they think talking (and talking and talking and talking) about what they are going to do is much more fun than bringing a "reckoning" (hooked on phonics is your friend mmmkay?)
Le Cardinal Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 11:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Attak tl;dr : HYDRA is full of carebears, leadership sucks and we left. I especially liked the part about "it is ludicrous to expect an industrialist to show up for fleet operations" I usually try to stay calm when i post on eve-o, and ill do my best quoting you. I find it absolutely hilarious this comming from a Trioptimum member. Your corp didnt do anything but carebear when you lived in Cloud Ring (maybe you live there still, who cares). I certanly hope this is ur personal opinion/delusions. Up to a certain point where we finally booted you.

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