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Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.04.27 20:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 27/04/2008 20:25:03
TL:DR Version at the Bottom
To be perfectly honest, there are far too many local replacement suggestions, all of which only look at part of the puzzle.
Issues with local are thats its being used as a intel tool
I personally dodnt have any issue with local giving intel. All I have issue with is the effects of people inside local from preventing the other side from receiving intel.
Uses of local can inclue....
1. Cloak noobalt afk in system, sometimes with external software, giving intel. A force cannot remove cloaking alts.
2. Ability to see how many friendly and non-friendly people are in local
3. Allow people with wardecs to find targets, and allows victims to be aware of targets.
Now nothing wrong with wardec and wardec targets from knowing about each others presence in local. In fact, this really has to stay. Nothing wrong with the ability to see how many people in local are blue or not.
Now the crunch part. The Cloaker. That has to change. Only Cov Ops cloakers should have no penelty, since thats what they do due to their role.
Solution? Wait for it, its the most radical solution you will have ever heard.
Have it that ANYONE can warp to ANYONE in local with the following exceptions...
1. Having a cloak means you warp to the grid within random distance from target, forcing you to try to decloak it. I am not saying distance, since that an be balanced on test server
2. Having a Cov ops Cloak active will prevent people warping to you. Nothing Changes here
3. You cannot warp to people in deadspace, you have to probe em out as usual.
This change makes probes less useful, so perhaps probers can be looked at to probe cov ops ships (but say, a minimum 10 minute scan time so active cov ops pilots can easaly move around a system safely) This would make probers more useful.
What it does is for the first time, actually make 0.0 dangerous. For lowsec, its mostly unchanged. Of course, warping to safes is no longer viable, but most lowsec people use stations and pos's as warpto's.
What do other people think? This solves every problem with local since if someone is looking in your bathroom while you are taking a pee, you can actually do something about it!
The TL:DR version
Local Soulution is SIMPLE
Anyone in local can warp to ANYONE with the rules....
1. You cannot warp to cov ops, perhaps probe em out with a long delay (which is long enough to catch afk cov ops)
2. Warping to a non-cov ops cloak ship puts you in grid at a random distace (distance to be balanced on test server)
3. You cannot warp to someone in deadspace. Probe em out as usual.
Bingo - Local is no longer stupid. If you see someone in local, you can get a fight out of them if its 0.0 rather than the current cloakfag tactics and afk intel bot tactics.
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Synthesta
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Posted - 2008.04.27 20:40:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Synthesta on 27/04/2008 20:41:11
1. Trying to a) find and b) de-cloak someone in an entire grid is very difficult! (have you ever tried it? Grids can be massive) This really won't solve the cloak issue at all.
2. What about people docked in stations.
Edit - Just to be clear, by "very difficult" I really mean "impossible - 1". |
Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.04.27 20:47:00 -
[3]
Then you might as well remove belts in low sec.
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Freya Runestone
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.27 21:09:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Scout McAlt
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 27/04/2008 20:25:03
*stuff*
Solution? Wait for it, its the most radical solution you will have ever heard.
Have it that ANYONE can warp to ANYONE in local with the following exceptions...
1. Having a cloak means you warp to the grid within random distance from target, forcing you to try to decloak it. I am not saying distance, since that an be balanced on test server
2. Having a Cov ops Cloak active will prevent people warping to you. Nothing Changes here
3. You cannot warp to people in deadspace, you have to probe em out as usual.
*Stuff*
if the distance is more than ~20km, finding a cloaked ship becomes almost entirely impossible. Leave your ship traveling in a random direction, even at low speed it will make it ridiculously difficult to find anything cloaked. Or even better, orbit something at like 50-100km, now you can't even predict direction.
Here's what I don't really get.
You want to remove local and replace it with something that is even more powerful (will not only tell you they are there, but also tell you exactly where in the system)
The problem is not that Local is being used *as* an intel tool, it's the level of detail local provides for no work or risk at all what-so-ever.
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Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.04.27 21:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 27/04/2008 21:16:16
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 27/04/2008 21:14:10
Think about it guys.
1. Local will no longer become a afk intel tool. You can kill off anyone trying to get intel on you, or probe em out.
2. Set distance for warping to a non-cov ops cloaker in local WILL be balanced on test server. Perhaps having a 10 man gang warp to a target from different directions will give a indication of roughly where the cloaker is. Either way DISTANCE is not relevent yet because thats for test server to balance - no point gussing numbers yet.
What is wrong with local - The fact people can get intel and you cannot stop them.
People docked in station do what they always do. Remain docked unable to give loations or warp to's.
There is no longer any problem with local then. Wardecers can find their targets and vice versa. Only thing left is stations. Well, are the hostiles going to dock at a outpost? - not likely!
Public station is perfectly fine for them to see local numbers. Since after all, there is no longer any point hiding.
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Andrest Disch
Amarr
Debitum Naturae
Wrath.
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Posted - 2008.04.27 21:23:00 -
[6]
The perceived problem with local is that it's to easy to get intel, not that it's to hard. 
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Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.04.27 21:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Andrest Disch
The perceived problem with local is that it's to easy to get intel, not that it's to hard.
The idea is you can only get intel if you have a alive person in system. Since any hostile can warp to you and decloak you if they last close to you (NOTE - Distance to be decided on test server for balance). Cov ops pilots are excluded from this as are people in Deadspace.
ultimatly, nobody can get intel unless they use intel gathering ships like Cov ops.
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Freya Runestone
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.27 21:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Scout McAlt
Originally by: Andrest Disch
The perceived problem with local is that it's to easy to get intel, not that it's to hard.
The idea is you can only get intel if you have a alive person in system. Since any hostile can warp to you and decloak you if they last close to you (NOTE - Distance to be decided on test server for balance). Cov ops pilots are excluded from this as are people in Deadspace.
ultimatly, nobody can get intel unless they use intel gathering ships like Cov ops.
Problem is, it makes it impossible to hide in a system.
If you don't have someone looking at the gates then frankly you shouldn't know who's in and out of the system.
As long as local exists in its current form there is no such thing as "element of surprise" in EVE at all.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.04.27 21:48:00 -
[9]
And then no one can evade enemy forces, as the enemy can warp directly to you.
Honestly, how narrow minded do you have to be to see this as a fix? No more keeping your distance or safe spots. Whoever has the bigger blob warps in and wins.
Oh, and forget having a chance to escape if you're mining or ratting. Warp in, click warp to zero, instant tackle and gank.
This will make eve wonderful for everyone. 
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Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.04.27 22:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aria Seniste
And then no one can evade enemy forces, as the enemy can warp directly to you.
Honestly, how narrow minded do you have to be to see this as a fix? No more keeping your distance or safe spots. Whoever has the bigger blob warps in and wins.
Oh, and forget having a chance to escape if you're mining or ratting. Warp in, click warp to zero, instant tackle and gank.
This will make eve wonderful for everyone.
Think. Its narrow minded to assume big blob wins.
You forget the key thing here. Whoever said it should effect every ship? It only needs to effect a few classes of roaming ships, such as recons and cov ops. I am not going to limit which ships since that is a job for the test server.
But yeah, its not for every single ship.
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.04.27 23:28:00 -
[11]
A good deal of scouting alts is already flying in covops. Cloaking requires electronics V , covops cloak requires electronics upgrades V. Not a huge difference in SP.
Quit trying to dumb the game down.
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Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.04.28 06:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 28/04/2008 06:22:58
Originally by: Stakhanov
A good deal of scouting alts is already flying in covops. Cloaking requires electronics V , covops cloak requires electronics upgrades V. Not a huge difference in SP.
Quit trying to dumb the game down.
Before calling other trying to dump the game down, please explain how you fit a cov ops cloak to a t1 frig or pod?
Fitting cov ops cloak to a ship requires frig5 or cruiser 5 and other skills etc
And did you even bother to read what I said about cov ops pilots being probeable?
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Evita Achura
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.28 08:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Evita Achura on 28/04/2008 08:44:58
Originally by: Scout McAlt
...Absolute utter and abject CRAP post...
Please never develop computer games ever, do not work for CCP, do not apply to be a CSM, do not post on the forums for at least one year. To address what your "solution does"
It fails.
It fails completly to resolve the cloak problem. Grids are at MINIMUM 300km cubed. Good luck de-cloaking some time this century.
It fails to address local as an Intel gathering tool.
It fails to keep pvp balanced by turning a hunt into an issue of who can press the warp button faster. With all likelihood if you can warp to anyone anywhere in a system rather than people safe spotting now everyone will log out or cloak because as stated above your cloak concept fails.
If you lack the common sense and foresight to think about what you are proposing before proposing it please do not waste our time with this drivel again.
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Dr Slaughter
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.28 08:50:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 28/04/2008 08:52:00
Originally by: Scout McAlt
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 27/04/2008 21:27:56
MODS: Can you move this to Game Development forum pls. thanks
--stuff-- bot tactics.
-sigh-
Or, if you're cloak is active... your copy of LOCAL disappears and your scanner is limited to your HUDs range.
So, if you cloaked, you don't get to watch local for free all day, and if you're cloaked and doing recon you actually have to sneak around close to the things your trying to watch.
Want to watch an entire system cloaked tough. Pick a stargate and sit near it.
drs
dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004 |
Corwain
Gallente
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.04.28 09:42:00 -
[15]
Sure! As long as I also dissapear from local as well as not seeing it myself when cov-ops cloaked.
--
Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Scout McAlt
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Posted - 2008.04.28 09:50:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Scout McAlt on 28/04/2008 09:52:22
Originally by: Evita Achura
Edited by: Evita Achura on 28/04/2008 08:44:58
Originally by: Scout McAlt
...Absolute utter and abject CRAP post...
Please never develop computer games ever, do not work for CCP, do not apply to be a CSM, do not post on the forums for at least one year. To address what your "solution does"
It fails.
It fails completly to resolve the cloak problem. Grids are at MINIMUM 300km cubed. Good luck de-cloaking some time this century.
It fails to address local as an Intel gathering tool.
It fails to keep pvp balanced by turning a hunt into an issue of who can press the warp button faster. With all likelihood if you can warp to anyone anywhere in a system rather than people safe spotting now everyone will log out or cloak because as stated above your cloak concept fails.
If you lack the common sense and foresight to think about what you are proposing before proposing it please do not waste our time with this drivel again.
The irony is, you just made yourself look stupid.
Did you miss the part about distance from warping to a non-cov ops cloaker? Who says it has to bee 300km, it could be 3km or 5 km or 10 km or whatever amount is BALANCED via test server.
Did you miss the part about only certain ships being able to warp to anyone in local? Oh wait, that kinda makes your entire post invalid.
Did you miss the part that local is only a intel tool because you cannot remove someone from local, but my idea resolves this?
There are other solutions as well, like the guy above posting that cloaking will remove him from his and everyones local. Seems like a fantastic addition to my idea, though could be abused by people mass cloak/uncloaking to prevent people catching them. My solution is not perfect because it is not trying to be. It is trying to solve the effect of local, which is that people can use it for intel and you cannot remove them. Thats the only bad thing about local.
If you lack the common sense and foresight to think about what you are replying about before posting, please do not waste our time with this drivel again.
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