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Golem v Sanshas, ratting.

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Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:04:00 - [1] A chap in my corp had a Paladin, and it was pretty damned awesome ratting against Sanshas according to him. Most peoples gripe with the Golem it feels comes down to its being jammed in Guristas missions. Which (in my experience using a Raven against them) they dont do much jamming it seems. In chaining I leave most of the frigs and cruisers, concentrating on the Battleships, so this is my standpoint from where I ask. It it worth getting a Golem to rat? Sanshas have EM primary damage but the Golem has that shield booster bonus so that will offset that issue somewhat. With the locking time I will be fitting a T2 cloak onto this, but even if I bought a CNR instead that would be slapped on. Skills are irrelevant realy, its just 10 days to Energy Management 5 for the Golem, so what would the seasoned fitting gurus say, the CNR or the Golem for this? I personaly lean towards the Golem but I would rather get a second opinion before I commit to such a considerable sum of isk Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:10:00 - [2] Edited by: Malcanis on 30/04/2008 09:10:13 A golem is just overkill for ratting. A T2 fit raven is overkill for ratting, come to that, but you're risking far less ISK. The only reason to have a Golem in 0.0 is if you're doing a lot of plexes. EDIT: Get Energy Management 5 anyway though. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
agrajag119 Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:16:00 - [3] I'll second Mal's statement. Just stick with a standard t2 siege+mwd raven. It kills spawns just as fast, and you've maybe got 35M isk floating in space (more if you rig it I guess). 6 x Siege launcher (II's if you can, otherwise pick a meta you like), salvager, tractor Large SB II, named MWD, EM resist, Therm resist, Cap Recharger II, passive EM resist 3 x BCU II, 2 x PDU II Rigs if you want em.
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.30 09:26:00 - [4] Originally by: agrajag119 I'll second Mal's statement. Just stick with a standard t2 siege+mwd raven. It kills spawns just as fast, and you've maybe got 35M isk floating in space (more if you rig it I guess). 6 x Siege launcher (II's if you can, otherwise pick a meta you like), salvager, tractor Large SB II, named MWD, EM resist, Therm resist, Cap Recharger II, passive EM resist 3 x BCU II, 2 x PDU II Rigs if you want em. This is essentialy my current setup, but swap the salvager for a T2 cloak (sometimes RA likes to come in for a surprise visit - they give up after around 20 miniutes if your cloaked) and I use a T2 AB isntead of MWD. Still thankyou for the input in regards to this Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 10:32:00 - [5] Edited by: Ortos on 30/04/2008 10:32:33 Personally I dont see how it is a overkill to rat in a Golem. You can fit salvagers and a tractor beam. You can even fit a couple of Cargo extenders and still be able to kill anything. As long as youre in a safe system, and watch local like a f*cking hawk. It's a worthwhile investment. ESPECIALLY, if you have the oppurtunity to get all the loot jumped to highsec. T1 battleship rat loots sell for next to nothing in 0.0, but if you jump those 1600mm plates (which drops all the time) to say Jita. Theyre suddenly worth 600k each. 1 or 2 tractor beams, 1 or 2 salvagers. 3000m3 of cargohold, would increase you profit margins by tons.
Yaro	Posted - 2008.04.30 10:54:00 - [6] do you realise how much golem cost ? do you realise that most of the time you need to tank maximum of 3 cruiser and 3 BS ? So what is the reason to use golem over standart t2 raven ? From my point of view, the best ship to rat in Sansha space is ishtar. Fit 2 salvagers and 2 tractor beams + cloak and you r fine
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.30 11:46:00 - [7] I'm afraid I am completly Caldari specced, while the Ishtar would be good it isn't a realistic option to me within my current timeframe. Ortos - I think you sealed the deal with that post, the Golem seems the better allmost entirely down to cargo size. I'm sure I can work something out to get those plates to Jita. And yes, Golems are around 700M I beleive? Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:15:00 - [8] The above-posted torp raven looks like a very solid ship. I current rat Sansha's with a cruise raven, and I'm a bit tempted to try out this setup. The only concern I have is will the cap hold out? Granted, you aren't tanking much damage at all, but EM is gonna be the weakest damage to tank in a raven, and there's a fair amount of warping to be done between belts (I need to train warp drive op higher than 2 I suppose ). Not to mention the MWD will be draining on the cap a bit. Is cap ever a problem with that setup? The raven I use for ratting currently has 3xCCC's on it, and our sov doesn't have the biggest rats (2 1.25mil bs max). Also, do you use jav's, or just normal mjol's for rats? Thanks.
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Yaro do you realise how much golem cost ? do you realise that most of the time you need to tank maximum of 3 cruiser and 3 BS ? So what is the reason to use golem over standart t2 raven ? From my point of view, the best ship to rat in Sansha space is ishtar. Fit 2 salvagers and 2 tractor beams + cloak and you r fine Salvagers, tractor beam bonus and a Cargohold. Damage wise it's allso good. Even better, when ur killing easy mobs with it you can pimp it out for damage and cargohold only. And still never, ever risk dying. That means you can pick up all the loot you'd ever want. Without having to bring a salvage ship. In a normal system, you might not notice the diffrence that much. But when youre ratting in a good system, with a ton of belts. A Golem might earn you another 10m \ hour compared to a Raven. Except for cap boosters, pick up ALL loot. And you really want to sell it in Jita, i'd sell most to the buy orders as long as prices were competative.
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:18:00 - [10] Just normals myself, logisticly its a pain in the arse to ship out enough T2 torps, so recycling loot for good old T1 is the way forwards. With the cap, I have issues sometimes as the shield booster will eat away at the cap after around 3 min or so (never counted though) so I use an afterburner instead.

Boz Well	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:32:00 - [11] I might try switching to torp's. The only thing about the golem is you have to make the risk-reward assessment for yourself. You will have an easier time salvaging, and you'll be able to hold more crap without taking it back to your GSC/POS. However, if you screw up, or if you get tackled, or whatever happens, you stand to lose close to a billion ISK as compared to 50 million or whatever you'd have in the standard raven. If you think you can minimize that risk, get a golem. Otherwise, stick with a raven. But for sure, you'll make a PVP'er very happy tho the second you screw up in that golem, if you ever do.
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.30 12:50:00 - [12] If you read my opening line, the chap had a Paladin This is why I will be looking at local liek a hawk, and doing the same tactic that saved my raven while the Paladin went down - have a cloak fitted. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 13:45:00 - [13] Sounds like a good call to me, even with a cloak fitted you'd still have 3 utility slots for salvage and tractor.
Arazel Chainfire KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.04.30 14:13:00 - [14] I'm personally only BS 5 away from a kronos (something i'm definately going to get anyways, even if I don't get the kronos). I'm not sure how much more effective the golem would be than the regular raven. However, I would love a kronos out in the drone regions where I live at the moment - the biggest problem I have with ratting is the required looting afterwards. IMO, if you are looking to loot/salvage while you're ratting, the golem would probably be worth it. If not, just don't bother and use a cheaper ship. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 14:32:00 - [15] I envy you gallente, amarr and caldari BS 5 people.. Best I can do is get a vargur, and I wouldnt use that even if it was half the price it is now. Wouldnt train for it if it was 200m.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.30 16:50:00 - [16] with the extra tractor range and cargo space it might just be worth using a marauder to rat and the golem has an extra mid slot and shield boost bonus so you can probably fit 2-3 sensor boosters on it rather comfortably. to offset the cloak penalty and wtf that one guys torp raven set up is damn near the same raven fit i fit together a few days ago
Chomapuraku Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:25:00 - [17] ratting is all about as much dps as you can fit and just enough tank. warp in, pop the rats, maybe loot and salvage (best accomplished with an alt, though) and move on. unless you get rats with a really high bounty, it might not even be worth it to loot or salvage golem would REALLLY shine as a drone regions ratting boat. fit torps for those close-talking drone BSes, slap on a small, easily-adequate tank, and suit up the rest for tractor, salvage, and... wait for it... cargo expanders!! hell, for rigs, throw on either missile range rigs (one or two types orbits at 30+, and those are easily dealt with with javelin torps) or cargo rigs (more cargo space = fewer trips to drop off alloys at pos or deep-space GSC's) Originally by: Crimson11 Crimson11: What the hell happened? WarGod: Some breaking occurred, the Alt Key was involved, that's about all we know.
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.30 22:25:00 - [18] Why would anyone wanna use missile range rigs? T1 missile range rig (if youre thinking flight time) is 15%. T1 Missile speed rig is allso 15% Using standard heavy missiles, 10 sec flight time and 3750m\s. (10115%)3750=43125 meters travelled total Now using 1 missile speed rig. (3750115%)10=43125 meters travelled total, but at a higher speed meaning less missiles are gonna get shot down. The diffrence between these two rigs price wise is less then 10%, one is usually 13million, the other is 14 millions. Speed rig is the most expensive one. Am I totally missing some great point about the flight time rig?
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.05.02 09:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Arazel Chainfire I'm personally only BS 5 away from a kronos (something i'm definately going to get anyways, even if I don't get the kronos). I'm not sure how much more effective the golem would be than the regular raven. However, I would love a kronos out in the drone regions where I live at the moment - the biggest problem I have with ratting is the required looting afterwards. IMO, if you are looking to loot/salvage while you're ratting, the golem would probably be worth it. If not, just don't bother and use a cheaper ship. -Arazel The Kronos is an amazing looting ship. I would even consider a second ship to replace the catalyst I have always used. Fill the highs with 3 salvagers & tractors & a cloak & the lows with some tec2 cargo expanders. You would then have one hell of a salvaging ship. The Kronos is a tec2 vacuum cleaner for salvaging and that makes it worth every penny-its just a shame you cant insure it for the full value- maximum you would get under 200 Million ISK back when fully insured. That sucks big time.
linux4ever eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.02 10:15:00 - [20] where do you plan on rating in it and where is your buddy in his paladin we might come down and assist you a little :P



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