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Starting out - Gimping yourself seems.... unlikely longterm

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Zeltan Shadowhawk	Posted - 2004.04.26 16:21:00 - [1] I just started playing last night (bought the game, no trial here!). Since the only real limit to how much you can learn in this game seems to be based on time (assuming new skills get added every so often by the devs), it appears that any choice you make upon creation is of little importance in the long run. My first character is a Minmater scientist. He only has a cumulative skill point pool in the 6300 range. While his attributes will affect how quickly he can learn new skills, even skills that require attributes he's weak in can be learned eventually right? By learning the "learning" skills I can improve my learning rate. Even as a scientist, I could become an excellent ship captain and fare well in combat assuming I have the skills, equipment and savvy to do so, right? I guess what I'm really asking is this. Since there's no skill cap per se, my choices when I created will not "gimp" me in the longterm, right?
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2004.04.26 16:26:00 - [2] You can learn all the basic gunnery skills (which are available allready), only much later you will need to make a definite choice whether you want to be a scientist or a combat orientated person. And yes by training all the Learning skills first you will train other skills faster. And welcome to the game and the forums I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.04.26 16:27:00 - [3] In the beginning, i forgot that Perception is actually a useful stat, thus gimping myself profoundly on that. A base perception of 5 is rather.. annoying when you want to train your Gunnery skills, etc, to level 5. Takes about 8 days, rather then 5 and a half (which is how long it takes for my rank 1 int/mem skills to complete). it seems like there's not much you can gimp in the beginning, but the choices you made at character creation will affect you much, much later in the game (after 4-5 months or so, you'll want to get certain skills to lvl 5). Best is to have a high Int then Mem then Per :) [Heterocephalus glaber]
Matanga	Posted - 2004.04.26 16:36:00 - [4] IMHO The most important atribute is Intelligence with Memory in close second Then perception, willpower and Charisma (this based on the number/importance of skills you train with each one) You should start training the learning skills ASAP as they increase your atributes (aka lower your training time) Cheers Mat "ÆIn accordance with the principles of double-think it does not matter if the war is not real. For when it is, victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, but it is meant to be continuous.Æö George Orwell ô1984ö
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2004.04.26 16:40:00 - [5] No, it won't keep you from learning new skills but it will make the high rank lvl 5 skills a real pain. Intelligence and Memory are by far the most widespread skills ingame. Charisma is only used for maybe 10% of the skills and half of those aren't really useful for too much. I'm still kicking myself for that one. When you get higher skills it's more noticeable. 25 days vs 19 days sort of thing. But with learning skills and implants you can overcome your shortcomings for the most part. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Winterblink	Posted - 2004.04.26 16:48:00 - [6] Personally, I have every learning skill to level v except for Empathy (level 4), and it definitely makes a huge difference in training times. Well worth spending the time to train them to at least 4 if you intend to play the game for a long time :) ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Zeltan Shadowhawk	Posted - 2004.04.26 17:33:00 - [7] Thanks for the replies. After participating in the Lineage 2 open beta for a month or so, it's refreshing to see a community that seems helpful and supportive. I always try to understand the longterm effects of decisions I make early on in a game. Since the game has been out for about a year now, I figured I could get some valuable feedback that would help prevent me from making the game more frustrating later. I'll more than likely remake my character based on what I've heard here. It sounds like the priority for attributes from most important to least important should be: (1)Intelligence (2)Memory (3)Perception (4)doesn't matter (5)doesn't matter though probably charisma Based on this, it would seem prudent to create a character with a high natural intelligence, memory and perception and allocate the 5 points as 2/2/1 to int/mem/per. Then I should select a profession that emphasizes those attributes. Learning the "learning skill" should be a top priority. Raising the cash to buy all these skills will be a top priority as far as gameplay goes after improving from the newbie ship. I can see myself playing the game longterm. I don't want to get several months in and realize I did things early on that have become burdensome to the point of rerolling. I'm sure it's pretty much impossible to develop any sort of "master plan" at this stage of the game for me. I'm just making a best guess at this point.
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.04.26 17:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Zeltan Shadowhawk Raising the cash to buy all these skills will be a top priority as far as gameplay goes after improving from the newbie ship. I can see myself playing the game longterm. I don't want to get several months in and realize I did things early on that have become burdensome to the point of rerolling. I'm sure it's pretty much impossible to develop any sort of "master plan" at this stage of the game for me. I'm just making a best guess at this point. I'd upgrade to the mining ship of the race you've chosen (or the fast combat one if you want to do missions instead of mining), and get those learning skills asap. There's a handy guide (by Hardin, ace fellow) on the Skills forum, which should contain all the info you need on the topic of skills. Have a great time in-game [Heterocephalus glaber]
MiloMorai	Posted - 2004.04.26 17:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Eris Discordia You can learn all the basic gunnery skills (which are available allready), only much later you will need to make a definite choice whether you want to be a scientist or a combat orientated person. And yes by training all the Learning skills first you will train other skills faster. And welcome to the game and the forums I disagree with Eris here. I started out as a pilot char so i can collect ships and fly them too. I have more points in industry and science than in gunnery atm, but I can still fight. It is possible to be a jack of all trades type just ask the UBER-point people that have run out of stuff to train. I also have an account with a science type that is now building up fighting skills. So decide for yourself.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.04.26 19:08:00 - [10] Try different characters out before deciding, it's possible to get a great deal more than 6k skillpoints from the beginning. If not heavily into roleplaying go for the max and buy the skills you want to persue later or at least get some of the 'on creation only' skills. Convert Stations
Aleis	Posted - 2004.04.26 19:58:00 - [11] The skills you start with are not important in the long run although they do help starting out ie. not having to buy them. the most important thing are your attributes, even though there are the learning skills to raise them and implants, even fartheur down the road your high atribs vs your low ones will still save you days per skill. Atribute per occupation: prime / secondary Industrial manufacturer: Mem / int Science / Electronics: Int / mem Combat: Wil / (Perception or int) trader / hualer: Perception / (int or char) CEO / NPC mission runner: (anything depending ont he type of missions and corp you want) / char
BobGhengisKhan	Posted - 2004.04.26 20:11:00 - [12] Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 26/04/2004 20:12:31 Don't advise anyone to raise their willpower too high, I have a high one and it's definitely a waste.
Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2004.04.27 05:45:00 - [13] Edited by: Shintoko Akahoshi on 27/04/2004 05:46:26 At least you didn't fall into the "Ooh! Charisma sounds like a useful attribute!" trap, like I did... One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet are how skills affect the game. Combat skills, in my opinion, are less important to the combat pilot than industry/research skills are to those character. That is, you need certain skills to be able to copy that blueprint or build that item. Combat skills, on the other hand, have less of an effect on combat than actual real-time click-that-mouse-and-use-your-brain tactics. Sure, you need to at least have small projectile skill to be able to fire that small projectile gun, but there are no hard and fast skill sets that guarantee success in combat the way research and industry skills guarantee your ability to perform those functions. p.s. Welcome to Eve! There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense
Zen Jakkaru	Posted - 2004.04.27 05:51:00 - [14] If you do reroll, always go for Frigate IV.. as this gives you 110k skillpoints (70k more than the other choices) and means you can be in a cruiser very soon indeed. *Har-de-fraggin'-har-har!*
Yaerav Aeyar	Posted - 2004.04.27 08:04:00 - [15] Or, alternatively, try to get as many skills as possible at level I- won't get you a hell of a lot of skill points, but at least you will not have to spend as much money on skill packs. (of course if you enter a corporation early on, this is hardly a problem) Live to Serve Serve to Grow Grow to Ascend
Aegon	Posted - 2004.04.27 08:16:00 - [16] I'd like to welcome you to the community Zeltan. Yes stats can be a problem in the long run. The most important question is this: what do you want your char to be ultimately as the optimal stats do really differ slightly from one specialisation to the next. If you have any doubts as how your stats are feel free to message me in game.
Sister Immacolata	Posted - 2004.04.27 09:00:00 - [17] I started with very high intelligence, high memory and mediocre willpower, charisma and perception. Yup, I am a scientist too and I soon found out that science sucks. So I was in doubt, but I found out that putting my Learning skills and attribute buffing skills up to 4 and later 5, gave me a significant boost to most skills. Today I have a natural intelligence of 19 with Analytical Mind 5, Memory of 15 with Instant Recall 5 and of course with LEarning 5. Unfortunately my Perception is just at 11, even with Spatial Awareness 5 and Learning 5. That means that training Minmatar Cruiser (rank 5 skill with primary req in perception) would take me 44¢ days! Then I bouhght a perception implant and my score rose to 14. This cut off a bit more than 8 days of total training time for level 5 cruiser. Impressive. So I am having high hopes, since a lot of the skills I have trained so far have been using intelligence or memory. You are a better off all-rounder if you haven't focussed on perception. Because good fighters don't just train gunnery and missile skills, they need all kinds of supporting skills to maximize their hull structure, capacitors, cpu, powergrid and to operate various equipment. And for making isk outside of combat, you need memory and intelligence for mining operations, and you can get by with pretty modest charisma scores because you don't need to train that many social skills to get a nice return on agent missions. I haven't regretted my choise even if I at some point felt a bit worried and wanted to recrreate a new toon, and I have 2,1 mio skillpoints saved up now. . . . Awaiting more and hi-bit rate music - with bated breath ...
Lucre	Posted - 2004.04.27 11:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Aleis Atribute per occupation: prime / secondary Industrial manufacturer: Mem / int Science / Electronics: Int / mem Combat: Wil / (Perception or int) trader / hualer: Perception / (int or char) CEO / NPC mission runner: (anything depending ont he type of missions and corp you want) / char Disagree. Will used to be primary for combat characters, but not now. Still useful, but a high Per is far more important as the primary for ship and most gunnery skills. (Though of course this could change again in the future.) My advice would be keep the stats reasonably balanced with a slight bias towards Int and Per, and against Cha. You don't know how they'll change the game and you don't necessarily know what you'll want to be doing with the character in 6 month's or a year's time. (Were I starting again, and were it possible with the race/subrace options (not sure whether it is) I think I'd try for something like IPCMW = 10 9 6 7 7. Or 9 10 6 7 7 for combat-biased. Which given I started on 9 8 8 7 7 means I'm not too unhappy with how it's turned out!)
Mos Panor	Posted - 2004.04.27 11:36:00 - [19] This thread is worth a read... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=53301 -------------------------- PIE Inc Captain and Internal Communications Officer
Zeltan Shadowhawk	Posted - 2004.04.27 18:18:00 - [20] Even more feedback thanks! I did reroll. I went Caldari this time, again along the scientific persuasion. I'm still not sure it's what will work for me long term. I know int is 12. I tried to beef up perception and memory also. I can't remember the rest of my stats. So much info running through my brain right now. I included my skill info below. I X'd out my name since it may or may not be my final choice. I feel so utterly ignorant at this point. This game has a much steeper learning curve than any game I've played. I like the challenge, but it does concern me that I'll mess myself up long term. It's just a game. I guess I should just go with it and relax and enjoy. Charactername : XXXXXXXX Total skill points : 21998 Total Cash : ISK 34,051 Electronics / Rank 1 / SP: 8000 of 45255 level Electronic Warfare / Rank 2 / SP: 500 of 2829 level Engineering / Rank 1 / SP: 1415 of 8000 level Shield Operation / Rank 1 / SP: 250 of 1415 level Gunnery / Rank 1 / SP: 254 of 1415 level Small Hybrid Turret / Rank 1 / SP: 250 of 1415 level Mining / Rank 1 / SP: 250 of 1415 level Science / Rank 1 / SP: 8000 of 45255 level Spaceship Command / Rank 1 / SP: 250 of 1415 level > currently training to level 2 / training complete Caldari Frigate / Rank 2 / SP: 2829 of 16000 level
Falbala	Posted - 2004.04.27 18:45:00 - [21] Starting skills don't matter much unless you pick some of the exotics ones that can't be found in game like diplomacy was when I created my char. You started with good int, memory and perception. All is well, you will be able to do a lot of things with this char. What can happen is when Shiva comes out with new trade and social skills your low charisma will be a disadvantage in this domain. But if you don't want to play a trader/mission runner this should not even bother you.
qyros	Posted - 2004.04.27 22:19:00 - [22] I don¦t know exactly what you have done to get Int 12. But Int 12 is high to start with. A custom char (no career) Caldari-Deteis-Scientist gives Int 10, Char 6, Perc 6, Mem 7 and Will 5. Now you have 5 free points to upgrade perception, memory and willpower. Probably you want higher perception and willpower to train gunnery and ship skills and memory to train learning, industry and maybe drone skills. EVE-I Starter Tool
Capt Silk	Posted - 2004.04.28 03:03:00 - [23] I roled my skills without knowing what I was doing, and only realized how important they were after I had played for several months. Currently I have, with no implants: (Learning lv 5) skill level (skill level for that attribute) intel: 13 (skill at lv 5) percep: 11 (skill at lv 4) Char: 11 (skill at lv 4) will: 12 (skill at lv 5) mem: 18 (skill at lv 4) Wish I had 3 less in Charisma and 2 more in Percep and 1 in will. But, it seems to work quite well for me, I train most things fast. Now I just need some implants... Capt Silk Your 250mm 'Scout' Accelerator Cannon perfectly strikes Serpentis Soldier, wrecking for 319.4 damage.
Zeltan Shadowhawk	Posted - 2004.04.28 16:52:00 - [24] I custom made the character. I'm not sure what I did either, but with 3 learning in the analytical mind, my int is now 15. I actually have a Condor and a Bantam now and have learned a good amount. The idea of restarting due to my 5 in Willpower is not a fun thought, but if Willpower ever becomes important, I'll be screwed for sure with my current attributes. Originally by: qyros I don¦t know exactly what you have done to get Int 12. But Int 12 is high to start with. A custom char (no career) Caldari-Deteis-Scientist gives Int 10, Char 6, Perc 6, Mem 7 and Will 5. Now you have 5 free points to upgrade perception, memory and willpower. Probably you want higher perception and willpower to train gunnery and ship skills and memory to train learning, industry and maybe drone skills. EVE-I Starter Tool
Miz Cenuij	Posted - 2004.04.28 17:39:00 - [25] If u cant manage to gimp yourself.... I will make u one of my gimps. You can become a member of my gimp harem. Mail me in game. LOL. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Koda	Posted - 2004.04.28 17:51:00 - [26] If only I'd known about memory when I created me. I have the recall of a frickin' ADD goldfish. -------------- Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
qyros	Posted - 2004.04.28 19:03:00 - [27] Edited by: qyros on 28/04/2004 19:07:32 Originally by: Zeltan Shadowhawk ... The idea of restarting due to my 5 in Willpower is not a fun thought, but if Willpower ever becomes important, I'll be screwed for sure with my current attributes. hehe... I have the same char type and my base will is 6...but I put most of the free points to perception. As far as I know only leadership skills, some spaceship skills (elite ships) and trading skills have willpower as primary attribute, most of them are not ingame yet. I don¦t try to fly every ship and get uber gunnery skills so I don¦t care :)

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