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Glacies Cuius	Posted - 2008.04.30 20:52:00 - [1] (posting on alt as my mains account expired today) Well, ive done it. i played wow's 10 day trial. Not the greatest game in the least, it cant even match eve's thrill of pvp (and hot drops). Even tho they have a crappy game filled with cartoon looking graphics (yes they are cartoony), some of the anti-spam features that they have could work well for eve. The first one i noticed right off the git-go, is while on trial you cant whisper to ANYONE. I had to physically call my co-workers and have them add me to their friends list before i could even speak to them. This would work well in eve, anyone on a trial cannot convo, talk in local (except the rookie chats, local should be something unlocked when they pay up), and cannot send mails to anyone that doesn't have the particular character on their buddy list. This can limit the help players can get from local, older players, but would drive them towards the help channel and towards finishing the annoying tutorial. Another idea I have would be an option to filter who you can get invites from by age. An option that a player can select that allows only characters over one, two, three, and six months old to be allowed to convo, send mails, and send gang invites (the idea behind gang invites are the gank invites of two corporations at war, working together inviting people on new characters to do 'missions'. They would then warp their prey to awaiting battleships, as well as jita ganks). Another (if its not already in place) would be mail count flagging. A count of how many mails sent to members not in same alliance, in same corp, or not on friends list would be counted, and if a unusual high number of mails sent from one player (i send maybe 2-3 in a day), are flagged, a GM would inspect the mails. If they are infact spam mails, a ban on the account would be issued. Banning isk sellers, from what i understand is a never ending process. The gm's ban an account only to have the same person (or bot) back in minutes on another new account. Banning via ip isn't new, but most of us know that you can change an ip very easily. Another way eve could contend with isk sellers is banning mother boards. Each mother board has a serial number that is both stamped and is electronic. Adding a clause to the EULA, permitting the use of mother board serial numbers, for tracking and banning would be welcomed by me. The bans would be accomplished by having eve check the motherboards serial numbers on start up. If the board has been flagged a response would be given explaining why the board had been banned. When replacing motherboards becomes too expensive for isk farmers, i could foresee a drop in the sale of isk. /me puts on flame suit, grabs a beer and waits for the flames to rise.
Glacies Cuius	Posted - 2008.04.30 20:52:00 - [2] (posting on alt as my mains account expired today) Well, ive done it. i played wow's 10 day trial. Not the greatest game in the least, it cant even match eve's thrill of pvp (and hot drops). Even tho they have a crappy game filled with cartoon looking graphics (yes they are cartoony), some of the anti-spam features that they have could work well for eve. The first one i noticed right off the git-go, is while on trial you cant whisper to ANYONE. I had to physically call my co-workers and have them add me to their friends list before i could even speak to them. This would work well in eve, anyone on a trial cannot convo, talk in local (except the rookie chats, local should be something unlocked when they pay up), and cannot send mails to anyone that doesn't have the particular character on their buddy list. This can limit the help players can get from local, older players, but would drive them towards the help channel and towards finishing the annoying tutorial. Another idea I have would be an option to filter who you can get invites from by age. An option that a player can select that allows only characters over one, two, three, and six months old to be allowed to convo, send mails, and send gang invites (the idea behind gang invites are the gank invites of two corporations at war, working together inviting people on new characters to do 'missions'. They would then warp their prey to awaiting battleships, as well as jita ganks). Another (if its not already in place) would be mail count flagging. A count of how many mails sent to members not in same alliance, in same corp, or not on friends list would be counted, and if a unusual high number of mails sent from one player (i send maybe 2-3 in a day), are flagged, a GM would inspect the mails. If they are infact spam mails, a ban on the account would be issued. Banning isk sellers, from what i understand is a never ending process. The gm's ban an account only to have the same person (or bot) back in minutes on another new account. Banning via ip isn't new, but most of us know that you can change an ip very easily. Another way eve could contend with isk sellers is banning mother boards. Each mother board has a serial number that is both stamped and is electronic. Adding a clause to the EULA, permitting the use of mother board serial numbers, for tracking and banning would be welcomed by me. The bans would be accomplished by having eve check the motherboards serial numbers on start up. If the board has been flagged a response would be given explaining why the board had been banned. When replacing motherboards becomes too expensive for isk farmers, i could foresee a drop in the sale of isk. /me puts on flame suit, grabs a beer and waits for the flames to rise.
Lord Haur Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.30 20:58:00 - [3] I haven't seen ISK spam in IAC corp chat for a while. Whatever the devs did to trials in the last patch or two must have worked. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.04.30 20:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Glacies Cuius The first one i noticed right off the git-go, is while on trial you cant whisper to ANYONE. I had to physically call my co-workers and have them add me to their friends list before i could even speak to them. This would work well in eve, anyone on a trial cannot convo, talk in local (except the rookie chats, local should be something unlocked when they pay up), and cannot send mails to anyone that doesn't have the particular character on their buddy list. This seems WAY too restrictive, to be honest - have you been in the help channel recently? It's like trying to get someone's attention in a concert, without knowing their location. Quote: Another idea I have would be an option to filter who you can get invites from by age. An option that a player can select that allows only characters over one, two, three, and six months old to be allowed to convo, send mails, and send gang invites. Not a bad idea, but you shouldn't accept a gang invite unless you trust the person at the other end anyway. I don't think it's really needed for gang invites. Quote: Another (if its not already in place) would be mail count flagging. A count of how many mails sent to members not in same alliance, in same corp, or not on friends list would be counted, and if a unusual high number of mails sent from one player (i send maybe 2-3 in a day), are flagged, a GM would inspect the mails. If they are infact spam mails, a ban on the account would be issued. Thumbs up on this one. Quote: Adding a clause to the EULA, permitting the use of mother board serial numbers, for tracking and banning would be welcomed by me. The bans would be accomplished by having eve check the motherboards serial numbers on start up. If the board has been flagged a response would be given explaining why the board had been banned. When replacing motherboards becomes too expensive for isk farmers, i could foresee a drop in the sale of isk. That's an interesting idea actually, but I'm not sure how easily this could be implemented (I'm a software developer but I usually don't deal with lower level hardware). ---------------- Tarminic - 35 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Sharp Feather Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:00:00 - [5] Why would anyone flame that... its perfect. You have my vote.
I buystuffs	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:05:00 - [6] Edited by: I buystuffs on 30/04/2008 21:05:24 Originally by: Sharp Feather Why would anyone flame that... its perfect. You have my vote. It's eve-o, anyone gets flamed for anything at any time. :) oops wrong toon >_<
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:07:00 - [7] We could always try writing to the Chinese government and ask them to *** down on gaming sweatshops like they ***ed down on Tibetan monks. I mean it might be worth a try
I buystuffs	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Glacies Cuius The first one i noticed right off the git-go, is while on trial you cant whisper to ANYONE. I had to physically call my co-workers and have them add me to their friends list before i could even speak to them. This would work well in eve, anyone on a trial cannot convo, talk in local (except the rookie chats, local should be something unlocked when they pay up), and cannot send mails to anyone that doesn't have the particular character on their buddy list. This seems WAY too restrictive, to be honest - have you been in the help channel recently? It's like trying to get someone's attention in a concert, without knowing their location. If you remember your 15 day trial like i do, you would realize that local doesn't matter. When your in awe over the game like i was, and trying to figure things out, you don't use local.
I buystuffs	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:09:00 - [9] Edited by: I buystuffs on 30/04/2008 21:09:06 Originally by: Dirk Magnum We could always try writing to the Chinese government and ask them to *** down on gaming sweatshops like they ***ed down on Tibetan monks. I mean it might be worth a try Who says isk farmers are all Chinese? wow, two more posts on the wrong freaking person. I want my main back :(.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:13:00 - [10] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/04/2008 21:14:58 Oh nobody says they ALL are. But can't it all pretty much be traced to China and South Korea? edit: and Eastern Europe. Okay so there's some fair geographical distribution to this problem. An orbital ISP disruptor might be a better solution
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Glacies Cuius This would work well in eve, anyone on a trial cannot convo, talk in local (except the rookie chats, local should be something unlocked when they pay up) Instead of having them to pay, newbies should get a storyline mission named "Build your first FTL Transmitter" or something like that at the end of the tutorial. This mission should take a long time to complete (~1-2 hours) and would unlock local and other channels. Of course I doubt it would stop Isk selling spam completely, but it would annoy the hell out of the spammers if they have to spend 2 hours on every new trial account. PS: and CCP should design this mission so that it can't be completed by macros at all. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:14:00 - [12] Originally by: I buystuffs If you remember your 15 day trial like i do, you would realize that local doesn't matter. When your in awe over the game like i was, and trying to figure things out, you don't use local. My trial was close to 3 years ago so things may have changed since then - I did use local a bit. I think that the convo options should remain - a lot of new players would feel very disconnected if that were the case. I have this nerdgasmly awesome idea for fight ISK seller spam and eve-mail on the client side: Record the last 10 things a player has said in each chat channel, and compare each one for similarity and transmit this number to the server. If they are consistently similar for too long flag their account for a GM to investigate. Same for EVE-mails. Of course they could hack the client to circumvent this, but it would at least hamper them a bit, and I think that CCP should improve their ability to screen the client for alterations. ---------------- Tarminic - 35 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:18:00 - [13] Originally by: RigelKentaurus Instead of having them to pay, newbies should get a storyline mission named "Build your first FTL Transmitter" or something like that at the end of the tutorial. This mission should take a long time to complete (~1-2 hours) and would unlock local and other channels. Now THAT is an interesting idea...It wouldn't even need to take very long, honestly. All you would need to do is create some task that takes ten or fifteen minutes (which can't be improved through macroing - like constructing a component), and you remove the ability for banned trial accounts to be recreated in a few minutes. Of course the farmers could redouble their efforts, but filling out a CAPTCHA has a much higher rate of diminishing returns than a task performed in-game. You can have 20 instances of the new account page open, but you can't have 20 instances of EVE open without investing in much more hardware than you would have to do otherwise. Quote: PS: and CCP should design this mission so that it can't be completed by macros at all. Easier said than done - macros will never go away COMPLETELY, but we can make life harder for them at least. ---------------- Tarminic - 35 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:40:00 - [14] Originally by: RigelKentaurus Originally by: Glacies Cuius This would work well in eve, anyone on a trial cannot convo, talk in local (except the rookie chats, local should be something unlocked when they pay up) Instead of having them to pay, newbies should get a storyline mission named "Build your first FTL Transmitter" or something like that at the end of the tutorial. This mission should take a long time to complete (~1-2 hours) and would unlock local and other channels. Of course I doubt it would stop Isk selling spam completely, but it would annoy the hell out of the spammers if they have to spend 2 hours on every new trial account. PS: and CCP should design this mission so that it can't be completed by macros at all. Dambit, that's one of the smartest ideas I've seen on these forums. Even having that mission take 45-60 minutes would be enough to seriously crimp the alt-spammers... and other kinds of abusive alt-recyclers. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.04.30 22:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Tarminic like constructing a component That could work, but I think it would be better if the newbie were active all the time in this mission. If all he does is watching the clock, he'll think "meh, this game is playing without me, what's the point?" and will get bored. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.05.01 00:56:00 - [16] What's local? Isn't that the name of the fancy intel tool we have atm?
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.05.01 01:29:00 - [17] CCP needs to come down harder on people who buy isk not the isk sellers. Killing off the seller is like killing an ants next 1 ant at a time. Some guy buys 100mil isk then take double that isk off them AND 100K sp's and a 10day ban. To make sure honest people are not affected by this (incase sellers just start sending out isk to make this unpopular) when you try and send isk to a non-corp member or a npc corp member they have to actualy accept the transation. This way people will think twice before they buy as they know they could lose double the isk + actual game time. The first time this is done CCP need to get a good 100-200 people min all at the same time to make a big impact. This may appear to be mildly harsh but i've played other games and i've had friends who have had their account stripped so other lazy people can just buy their stuff for money. If you buy isk you are no better than a theif.
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.05.01 01:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Mavolio CCP needs to come down harder on people who buy isk not the isk sellers. Killing off the seller is like killing an ants next 1 ant at a time. Some guy buys 100mil isk then take double that isk off them AND 100K sp's and a 10day ban. To make sure honest people are not affected by this (incase sellers just start sending out isk to make this unpopular) when you try and send isk to a non-corp member or a npc corp member they have to actualy accept the transation. This way people will think twice before they buy as they know they could lose double the isk + actual game time. The first time this is done CCP need to get a good 100-200 people min all at the same time to make a big impact. This may appear to be mildly harsh but i've played other games and i've had friends who have had their account stripped so other lazy people can just buy their stuff for money. If you buy isk you are no better than a theif. ccp is gona have too start selling limited amounts isk too us. i wont buy isk illegally but will form them. i sopport isk selling too compet with the character trading that can make just as much of a impact on earning isk for someone. OffBeaT needs a job.. me make a good junk yard dog. a real good one. will work to protect hallers/miners and i got all day/night too do it. me know nothing! nothing!
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.05.01 01:49:00 - [19] Originally by: OffBeaT i wont buy isk illegally but will form them. You already can, go out buy a time card then sell for isk. The price of a time card is mildly stable and they dont take very long to sell from what people tell me.
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.05.01 02:41:00 - [20] Edited by: OffBeaT on 01/05/2008 02:42:18 yea i know but the price is getting driven right down too fast becouse so many people need isk. ccp has too do it differently i think or soon it will get too low for isk for time codes. then the isk sellers will still cash in.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2008.05.01 02:42:00 - [21] Eve is completely different from WoW in which players have plenty to do on their own. In my opinion WoW is pretty much a solo game where you happen to share the server in some cases. It can certainly be played as such, especially at early levels (hence it sucks). Eve is a much more social game and new players not exposed to this aspect would, I feel, be unlikely to continue playing. Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.01 04:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Kehmor Eve is completely different from WoW in which players have plenty to do on their own. In my opinion WoW is pretty much a solo game where you happen to share the server in some cases. It can certainly be played as such, especially at early levels (hence it sucks). Eve is a much more social game and new players not exposed to this aspect would, I feel, be unlikely to continue playing. Mostu and Salia are solo games
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.01 04:48:00 - [23] I started tracking down the spammers and murdering their pets brutally using salt, toothpicks, and carbon dioxide, while they and their familes are forced to watch I take full credit for any decrease in spammer activity Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Furb Killer The Peacekeeper Core	Posted - 2008.05.01 07:48:00 - [24] I thought people here were always saying eve isnt a solo game, brilliant idea, lets almost totally remove ability of trial players to even talk to others. And letting them do a task that takes an hour? Then the spambot does that task and starts spamming an hour later.
Glacies Cuius	Posted - 2008.05.01 07:50:00 - [25] where did i say they couldnt talk to others? the help channel is there, and pay2play members can convo them. i hardly ever talk in local anymore, other than to say 'gf' or something along those lines.
Cruthensis Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.05.01 08:23:00 - [26] Intro mission taking about an hour - awesome idea. Make sure it's variable enough to be unbotable. Originally by: Furb Killer And letting them do a task that takes an hour? Then the spambot does that task and starts spamming an hour later. The point of this is to make it impossible to bot. If every trial account sign-up needs at least 1 hour to sign up instead of 2 minutes, that's a massive reduction in the efficiency of each machine they have doing it. Furthermore, if every trial account sign-up requires this intro mission to be completed before ANY communication can take place, each trial account would be occupying a human for that hour (shared over several machines admittedly). For a genuine player, new to Eve, an engaging intro mission, acting perhaps as an extension/start of the tutorial, would be no issue at all. It's not going to be seen as an annoying hurdle when you're still floating around going "Oooh...planets...pretty" and it could very well bolster the tutorial's efficacy. I say "Yip!" to this. 1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1.
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:47:00 - [27] Edited by: RigelKentaurus on 01/05/2008 15:52:45 Originally by: Cruthensis it could very well bolster the tutorial's efficacy. Actually I even think this mission could completely replace the current tutorial. Aura would guide new players step-by-step in the seeking of the FTL Tranmitter parts. The player would have to mine a bit, build one of the parts with what he mined (but the construction time shouldn't take too long), kill some rats in a complex to find an other part, use his onboard scanner (exploration tutorial?) to get into an hidden complex and hack a container that holds another part, etc. At the end, he'll have to assemble all the parts and Aura will explain how to use the FTL Transmitter (tutorial on channels and mailing lists). Well, that's how I see it anyway. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
Archon T'orn	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Dirk Magnum An orbital ISP disruptor might be a better solution I support and/or support this service

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