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Is my CNR setup suicidable for profit?

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Wes Gunn	Posted - 2008.05.02 02:49:00 - [1] Edited by: Wes Gunn on 02/05/2008 02:50:19 EDIT: Forgot my 7th launcher lol 7x Arby Cruise CN XL SB, CN SBA, 3x T2 hardeners, T2 Cap Rechage 2x BCU II, 3x Cap Flux II So what's the word? Really wanna use the CN XL SB But am a little worried. I invested in a set of crystals instead of the deadspace booster 125mil SB, 70mil ISK SBA, 6x mil Hards, 1mil recharge, 3mil cap flux, 2mil BCU, 42mil launchers=248mil ISK, half is 124mil isk (the likely value to survive a pop I guess) Raven insurance=~40mil?, 5 ravens cost 200mil to insure plus cost of mods. So am I OK? I'm worried since I put the CN booster on.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.05.02 03:21:00 - [2] I think they'd also suicide you just on principle too, but thats kinda besides the point.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.02 04:03:00 - [3] Personally, I'd only consider fits that sport mods in excess of half a bil ISK (preferably spread along at least 2 high-ticket items) to be decent suicide-gank candidates. Less than that and it would have to be some personal grudge involved.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.02 04:45:00 - [4] I wanna get a CNR as well but I worried that I will wanna put the CN launchers back on, the capacity of those is just too good lolz. Overall it will still cost only about 500M (and 500M for the ship).
tarin adur Gallente Invicta.	Posted - 2008.05.02 05:25:00 - [5] I'd say your ok, with only 1 module your just not worth suiciding, i haven't done it myself but my friends will only suicide if theres 3b+ spread across several items.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:01:00 - [6] I've heard of a few guys they'd only do it as soon as the cost of the fittings exceed 1Bil.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:35:00 - [7] You don't use invuls, if you do missions for guristas you have 0% em resistance, which will be used against you in form of em torpedos. To kill you it takes 2 suicide ravens, but let's make some calculation with 3, just to be sure: Price of a raven (sell orders in Jita): 86.000.000 Platinum Insurance: 32.625.000 Insurance Payout: 108.750.000 ---------------------------------------- Raven costs after insurance payout: 9.900.000 For a suicide run you can go with t1 equips only, e.g. 6x siege, 2x blaster in highs web/scram/targetpainters/whatever in meds 5x bcu in lows (or 4 bcu + 1 turret damage mod) + 3 heavy drones + overheat + 5x faction torp in each launcher = fitting below 5mil. So it costs 15mil / raven, 45mil for a 3 raven suicide gang. Your modules: 248mil, if half survive (don't know if droprate is 50% but lets assume): 124m That's almost 3 times the investment to kill you, so yes, you qualify for a suicide run. In reality people maybe won't attack you since there are a lot of other cnrs with more expensive stuff flying around, and they have to wait 15min afk after each kill so they might spare you. There are pirates who don't want to get a bad reputation fast (so you don't see them coming) and will kill only stuff over 5bil once a month. Others even don't scan and engage any cnr/golem they see, on the long run they still profit but don't have to do all the intel stuff, just sit at a gate and have fun + profit, so you never can be sure, even if you use t2 stuff on your cnr, your in danger, since it's so cheap to kill (that's not fiction: check out killboards of known suicide ganking corps/allys, you'll find kills of t2 fitted cnrs). So you never know, don't feel save, expecially as you are a profitable target. Maybe today, maybe next months ... maybe never.
Dianeces Minmatar The Illuminati.	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba :stupidwords: ITT: People talk out of their ass about things they don't know about.
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:52:00 - [9] impossible to get suicided if you know what ya doin so doesn't make a diff how much the mods are.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.05.02 17:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba You don't use invuls, if you do missions for guristas you have 0% em resistance, which will be used against you in form of em torpedos. To kill you it takes 2 suicide ravens, but let's make some calculation with 3, just to be sure: Price of a raven (sell orders in Jita): 86.000.000 Platinum Insurance: 32.625.000 Insurance Payout: 108.750.000 ---------------------------------------- Raven costs after insurance payout: 9.900.000 For a suicide run you can go with t1 equips only, e.g. 6x siege, 2x blaster in highs web/scram/targetpainters/whatever in meds 5x bcu in lows (or 4 bcu + 1 turret damage mod) + 3 heavy drones + overheat + 5x faction torp in each launcher = fitting below 5mil. So it costs 15mil / raven, 45mil for a 3 raven suicide gang. Your modules: 248mil, if half survive (don't know if droprate is 50% but lets assume): 124m That's almost 3 times the investment to kill you, so yes, you qualify for a suicide run. In reality people maybe won't attack you since there are a lot of other cnrs with more expensive stuff flying around, and they have to wait 15min afk after each kill so they might spare you. There are pirates who don't want to get a bad reputation fast (so you don't see them coming) and will kill only stuff over 5bil once a month. Others even don't scan and engage any cnr/golem they see, on the long run they still profit but don't have to do all the intel stuff, just sit at a gate and have fun + profit, so you never can be sure, even if you use t2 stuff on your cnr, your in danger, since it's so cheap to kill (that's not fiction: check out killboards of known suicide ganking corps/allys, you'll find kills of t2 fitted cnrs). So you never know, don't feel save, expecially as you are a profitable target. Maybe today, maybe next months ... maybe never. Also need to consider that it drops their sec status, so they'd have to go rat it off. He's a candidate for ganking in the sense that it might happen...also keep in mind that people love to pop expensive missionships (like CNRs) on sheer principle. They probably wont pay much attention to you ,though...they're after the 1+ bil fits.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.02 17:50:00 - [11] for profit no, for the hell of suicide ganking a navy raven YES! once my sec status reaches an appropriate level the crusade begins
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.02 18:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Yakia TovilToba :stupidwords: ITT: People talk out of their ass about things they don't know about. Stupid comment. I showed precise numbers on why his setup is profitable for ganking, you didn't post anything but crap, troll.
Dianeces Minmatar The Illuminati.	Posted - 2008.05.03 02:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Yakia TovilToba :stupidwords: ITT: People talk out of their ass about things they don't know about. Stupid comment. I showed precise numbers on why his setup is profitable for ganking, you didn't post anything but crap, troll. No, I posted experience. But your cute little pubbie crusade against suicide ganking won't let you see that. Have fun deluding yourself, ta.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.03 03:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba So it costs 15mil / raven, 45mil for a 3 raven suicide gang. Your modules: 248mil, if half survive (don't know if droprate is 50% but lets assume): 124m That's almost 3 times the investment to kill you, so yes, you qualify for a suicide run. + other stuff You're severely underestimating the actual cost of suicide-ganking. A half-decently fit Raven hull will be needing at least 6 (if not much more) T1/lownamed fitted torp Ravens to suicide-gank... you won't be getting a succesfull gank with just 3 attackers unless you use T2 gear and faction (or rage, cheaper) ammo and overload. And after the gank, the gankers have to grind their secstatus up. So, realistically, you can easily sit on close to half a bil ISK in fitings before you're in any serious threat. The more you have on, the more likely it is some trigger-happy ganker will pick you. Only the stupidest of gankers would bother for something under 200 mil, and they'll most likely fail.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.03 05:59:00 - [15] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/05/2008 06:00:21 Originally by: Lord Zoran impossible to get suicided if you know what ya doin so doesn't make a diff how much the mods are. Actually If I was to gank people who are good at dodging scans (e.g using insta undocks out of grid etc), I would go for it mid mission. So mid mission, while you are tanking, you suddenly see a Afterburner nano'ed Cov Ops/Force Recon uncloak and start bumping you and scanning you. about 30 seconds later, a bunch of his buddies in gank ships arrive. You try to warp but you are being bumped. In about 10 seconds you are dead.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.03 09:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 03/05/2008 09:59:00 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Yakia TovilToba So it costs 15mil / raven, 45mil for a 3 raven suicide gang. Your modules: 248mil, if half survive (don't know if droprate is 50% but lets assume): 124m That's almost 3 times the investment to kill you, so yes, you qualify for a suicide run. + other stuff You're severely underestimating the actual cost of suicide-ganking. A half-decently fit Raven hull will be needing at least 6 (if not much more) T1/lownamed fitted torp Ravens to suicide-gank... you won't be getting a succesfull gank with just 3 attackers unless you use T2 gear and faction (or rage, cheaper) ammo and overload. And after the gank, the gankers have to grind their secstatus up. So, realistically, you can easily sit on close to half a bil ISK in fitings before you're in any serious threat. The more you have on, the more likely it is some trigger-happy ganker will pick you. Only the stupidest of gankers would bother for something under 200 mil, and they'll most likely fail. Hi Akita T, the first suicide attempt on me was by 3 ravens from Triumvirate alliance. This attempt failed, but they got down somewhere 70-80% of my shields. According to a following chat in local, the guy (he said he was allone running on 3 accounts) told that i had only luck and the modules on one of his ravens didn't fire instantly for some odd reason. BUT: i had 3 cladri navy invuls, giving me a nice EM resistance. So if everything worked like intended (no module malfunction) and i'd have rat-specific hardeners instead of invuls, it's safe to say that he'd succeed. And since you like numbers maybe you can do some calculations here. I'll just give a rough estimation from a cnr (golem has even less hp, much easier to gank): Shields (0%EM when using kin/thermal anti-gurista hardeners): 16k Armor: 12k, 50% EM resistance = 24k Hull: 12k Total: 52k + few seconds from shieldbooster. DPS from pure gank-fitted torp raven + faction torps + 2 blasters + overheat + 3 heavy drones: (rough estimation): 1.2k dps, 3.6k dps from 3. Time till death: 14-15 Seconds. BUT: first volley comes for free, criminal countdown starts after first 18 torps already hit the raven. Thats complete shield down before countdown starts, so in total it will take much less than 14 seconds. In a 0.5 sys it takes up to 30 seconds for concord to arrive (30 secs confirmed by a GM). You see where this goes ? In 30 secs it's quite safe for them to finish it. And the thing about standing: it might be an issue for a fulltime-pirates. But many of the ganking-squads in my home system were gangs from alliances like Triumvirate or Shinra. They live in 0.0 and rat there anyways, in the safty of space that their alliance provide them. Training fast talk to 4-5 and doing what they do a lot anyways for making isk (0.0 ratting), can hardly be seen as harsh limitation or penalty. Sec status doesn't cost them anything, no extra time, so this can't be taken into calculations. So the average missionrunner with few caldari navy modules shouldn't feel safe. When they run out of phat targets, they will come after the smaller ones as long as it's still profitable. And this sort of activity gets more and more popular with falling raven prices, so i expect the number of gankers to increase in next future, it just didn't get through to the last lazy pirate, that there is money to be made in highsec without risk and with lots of fun + chances for ueber profit lucky hits.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.05.03 10:35:00 - [17] So long as there people who think a Raven 'needs' a Gist XL booster, I'd say you're safe. If you go full CN at some point (particularly CN Invulns) you may have more attention. But a 250m Raven fit? Not worth it when there are 3 bil ISK Raven fits to fry. Besides, there are loads of pimp Ravens flying around with more than the cost of your entire fit in the highslots alone (and that's just with CN Launchers). If you're worried about suicide ganks, fit a DCU II. They add a shedload of effective hull HP (and a bit to your armor and shield). Usually, I see groups of 5-6 BS at gates around some hubs, all bearing TRI markings. Frequently, they're all Ravens, but sometimes I see a Mega or Geddon mixed in there.
SiFein	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:04:00 - [18] i remember surviving a suicide gank once (some time ago) wasnt my mission boat dont remeber what i had fitted....a warp scrammer?:P standard raven not cnr when they are boared and have waited long enough/decide to quit campin, they simply go for what ever comes along^_^ http://www.eve-files.com/upload.dxdx?RadUrid=bc084e88-0eb1-430d-88f2-fee6cc81b48e
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba And since you like numbers maybe you can do some calculations here. I'll just give a rough estimation from a cnr (golem has even less hp, much easier to gank): Shields (0%EM when using kin/thermal anti-gurista hardeners): 16k Armor: 12k, 50% EM resistance = 24k Hull: 12k Total: 52k + few seconds from shieldbooster. I see a lot of people prefering XL perma-tanks with loads of CFCs and such... but personally, I wouldn't be flying one of those... never leave home without a MediKit Suitcase II and screw the perma-running unless you plan to go AFK Not only that, but a T2 invul is always a good idea, even against Guristas (I usually advise corp members to fit ki/ki/th/invul, booster+amp for Guristas). So, now, against 100% incoming EM damage, you're lookng at 22.8k effective shield HP (plus 1.3k effective every 5 seconds as long as you still have capacitor), 29.3k effective armor HP and 31.1k effective hull HP. That's 83.2k + 1.3k / 5 sec True, 3.4k incoming EM DPS would bring you down within 30 seconds... but it would be pretty tight for DPS slightly below that. Change some of that EM to another resist, and you need even more DPS.
Greagore	Posted - 2008.05.03 16:08:00 - [20] Easy way to curb this action, but not get rid of it is to remove insurance payouts for criminals. meaning anyone tagged as KOS by concord does not get an insurance pay out. It is an exploit and should be dealt with as such. I am not saying to take out the suicide ganking, just take away the insurance payouts for criminal activities.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.03 17:34:00 - [21] And that would cause a jump in "not worth suiciding on" cargo/fitings value one order of magnitude higher. No, thank you, I'd rather not see people hauling 30+ bil worth of cargo in a freighter, or flying around in 5+ bil ISK fited boats on a regular basis at every freaking corner.
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.05.03 18:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/05/2008 06:00:21 Originally by: Lord Zoran impossible to get suicided if you know what ya doin so doesn't make a diff how much the mods are. Actually If I was to gank people who are good at dodging scans (e.g using insta undocks out of grid etc), I would go for it mid mission. So mid mission, while you are tanking, you suddenly see a Afterburner nano'ed Cov Ops/Force Recon uncloak and start bumping you and scanning you. about 30 seconds later, a bunch of his buddies in gank ships arrive. You try to warp but you are being bumped. In about 10 seconds you are dead. aligning is ftw
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:39:00 - [23] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/05/2008 19:39:39 Originally by: Lord Zoran Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/05/2008 06:00:21 Originally by: Lord Zoran impossible to get suicided if you know what ya doin so doesn't make a diff how much the mods are. Actually If I was to gank people who are good at dodging scans (e.g using insta undocks out of grid etc), I would go for it mid mission. So mid mission, while you are tanking, you suddenly see a Afterburner nano'ed Cov Ops/Force Recon uncloak and start bumping you and scanning you. about 30 seconds later, a bunch of his buddies in gank ships arrive. You try to warp but you are being bumped. In about 10 seconds you are dead. aligning is ftw Unless a cloak ship manovers in front of you before decloaking. Some ships go faster when cloaked

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