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Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
   |
Posted - 2012.03.02 16:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
just to be clear, there are no tears to be found here. im posting this as a result of a faction frig 1v1 fight i had the other night. it was me in a duel webbed hookbill vs a republic fleet firetail with a longpoint. we agreed to a 1v1 and started it off. he immediately got range on me and held me with the long point. the entire fight i was not able to get off one single landing rocket because he was orbitting me at about 18-20km and most likely had an mwd. (and i had an ab) what i want to know is what do i do in a situation like this? the fight lasted quite a long time due to his low dps so i had alot of time during the fight to try to manually click around and position myself to land in his swing. nothing worked. he took about 10-15 minutes to pop me (not that i care i was bored anyway) but i found it frustrating that despite my efforts i could not in any way get any closer to the firetail than about 16km tops. (i had duel webs overheated to 13km so i tried to get in that range to slow him down, to no avail) i enjoy frig fights so i plan in being in them more often but i would greatly appreciate some advice on how to go about closing in on a target when both of you are constantly orbitting at long range. thanks
cheers |
Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring
Rote Kapelle
251
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 16:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Start that fight from within scram range
That is one of the problems with arranged 1v1 fights... Once you are on grid the fight is usually already decided. Solo PVP especially is about manipulating the situation to your advantage. In an AB frig, this means starting the fight in scram range and not allowing your self to get kitted. You will need a good understanding of the game mechanics and basic psychology in order to do this.
On a side note.... 15 minutes really? I have yet to meet a frigate of any kind I can not kill with my kitting comets or slicers in under 40-50 seconds.
Edit: If you are caught out and forced to take that fight in an AB frig the only thing you can do is try the standard slingshot to force him to either get too far or too close to you. Usually a MWDing frig will try to hold range farther from you rather than too close which means you have a much better chance of breaking out of point range rather than getting him in scram range. |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 16:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Starting in scram range isnt a good suggestion because anyone with more speed than you and with good sense using a kite fit just inst going to let that happen.
i would work harder on your manuvability. Increase your Navigation skills to max especially Accerleration control.
Overheat your Afterburner.
Change course quickly and try and judge it so you'll end up close to him by looking at where his orbit path takes him.
You need to be moving in the direction of where he should be moving too in the next 2-3 seconds.
If you make this direction change quickly with an overheat of your afterburner + good navigation skills you'll have a slim chance to get into range so you could overheat your webs and then scram him.
Good luck for next time. |
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 16:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
this is why i dont go for AB frig fits personally...they cant compete with other frigs and they cant compete with anything bigger because theyre moving too slow to speed tank the hits. |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 16:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
thanks for your input i understand completely. the problem was that it was an arranged 1v1 fight where we met off grid and were about 200km from eachother so from there he pretty much had a handle on me. but yea it took alot longer than expected like 15 whole minutes or so. according to him he had bad dps. in regards to the manually click and try to meet the target in swing range where he will be in 2-3 seconds, i tried that as well, while overheating my ab (which eventually got destroyed from me forgetting to turn overheat off lol) but yea thanks for the input guys ill certainly apply everything i learned in the next fight :D |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Caldari State Capturing
163
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Did you carry javelin rockets? Yes they lower your velocity but if you're being kited in an AB hookbill by a frig faster than you the only thing you can really do is load javelin and pray. You can get an 18 (maybe more) km range with those javelin rockets. |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Did you carry javelin rockets? Yes they lower your velocity but if you're being kited in an AB hookbill by a frig faster than you the only thing you can really do is load javelin and pray. You can get an 18 (maybe more) km range with those javelin rockets.
ahhhh damn lol that probably woulda saved me thanks for letting me know |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
60
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 18:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Try to slingshot them into scram range by burning in a single direction and overheating while they are orbiting away from your path, when they turn to compensate quickly burn into them with your AB and scram/web overheated and try to get them before they adjust their range. If they don't turn into you, simply warp out after you get outside of their long point.
The other option is to fit a TD (optimal range script) which will force them to close range in order to do any damage.
ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 18:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fidelium Mortis wrote:
The other option is to fit a TD (optimal range script) which will force them to close range in order to do any damage.
tracking disrupter with optimal range script? is that something that will enhance my range or lower the targets lock range in effect making him get closer to me?
|
Daneel Trevize
The Scope
Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 18:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tracking computer is to enhance your range, tracking disruptor is to diminish theirs. Both mods take the same set of scripts as well as having the unscripted option.
If you started at 200km and could see you wouldn't get into tackle range, just warp off? Or get closer then fly away, making their closing speed only the difference between your two ships, and if you slam on the brakes/hit approach & heat mids they might not turn away in time. |
Kate Lockwell
404 File Not Found
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 18:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ganjjabeard wrote:Fidelium Mortis wrote:
The other option is to fit a TD (optimal range script) which will force them to close range in order to do any damage.
tracking disrupter with optimal range script? is that something that will enhance my range or lower the targets lock range in effect making him get closer to me?
it will lower the range on his guns |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 19:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
i see. damn yea that more than likely would have solved my problem and most likeley would have made me the winner of this battle. ill remember that for my next hookbill fit. i had it duel webbed should i drop a web for a td range script? |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
45
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 19:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape
Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
[zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
http://themabinogion.blogspot.com/ |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 19:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Korg Tronix wrote:Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape
sorry i am still kind of a n00b whats it mean prop? is that the propulsion rigs? yea im pretty sure that hookbill i was flying had 2 of them already : / |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
45
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 19:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ganjjabeard wrote:Korg Tronix wrote:Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape sorry i am still kind of a n00b whats it mean prop? is that the propulsion rigs? yea im pretty sure that hookbill i was flying had 2 of them already : /
It means fit an ab and an Mwd. You use the Mwd to catch them then the ab to lower the incoming dps once they are caught and to dictate range
Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
[zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
http://themabinogion.blogspot.com/ |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Korg Tronix wrote:Ganjjabeard wrote:Korg Tronix wrote:Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape sorry i am still kind of a n00b whats it mean prop? is that the propulsion rigs? yea im pretty sure that hookbill i was flying had 2 of them already : / It means fit an ab and an Mwd. You use the Mwd to catch them then the ab to lower the incoming dps once they are caught and to dictate range
hmm interesting, i didnt realize people would use an ab AND mwd on the same ship. and just to be sure, any point that is considered long point ie 20k none of the points shut down the mwd correct? (whereas the shortpoint would deactivate the mwd) just so i know for later reference if im pointed from way far away ill know that my mwd should still work to close range |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1692
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Short point (scrams rather than disruptors) are the only ones that will turn off an mwd.
Bear in mind with all this advice that it's always easy to provide advice in hindsight and it sounds like you are already using what was available to you at the time of the fight, slingshot attempts etc... so take on board what people have said on top of what you already learned and keep at it.
Here are a couple of Hookbill fits you can consider. Both dual prop, and the one I prefer which is dual web...
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Dual Prop]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Ballistic Control System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1MN Afterburner II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, double web]
Overdrive Injector System II
Ballistic Control System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Stasis Webifier II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 21:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Short point (scrams rather than disruptors) are the only ones that will turn off an mwd.
Bear in mind with all this advice that it's always easy to provide advice in hindsight and it sounds like you are already using what was available to you at the time of the fight, slingshot attempts etc... so take on board what people have said on top of what you already learned and keep at it.
Here are a couple of Hookbill fits you can consider. Both dual prop, and the one I prefer which is dual web...
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Dual Prop]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Ballistic Control System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1MN Afterburner II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, double web]
Overdrive Injector System II
Ballistic Control System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Stasis Webifier II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
ahh thank you thank you this is very helpful i like the duel prop fit very much! i was runnin duel webs (would have demolished that firetail had i caught up to range) but yea thats a great idea with 2 prop mods im still pretty new to the game so i didnt figure people would be doing that lol but i see now why it comes in handy! now i just have to burn through the rest of my friday at work so i can run home, fit up that duel prop and give it a try
|
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
60
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 21:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Make sure you practice with the dual prop setup ahead of time to get a feel for the timing. Two propulsion modules can't be active at the same time, which can be an issue.
ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 21:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fidelium Mortis wrote:Make sure you practice with the dual prop setup ahead of time to get a feel for the timing. Two propulsion modules can't be active at the same time, which can be an issue.
i see. yea what i would do is if im caught in that situation again of being kited at a distance i cant catch is follow the targets orbit path and guestimate where theyd be in about 2-3 seconds and then manually click and activate mwd for a short time to burst in that direction. at that point i would be hoping to land on our near the targets projected position. one question though. someone mentioned fitting a Tracking Disrupter on the hookbill which would force the target to move closer (all i really need is about 13k since my webs can catch at 13k overheated) so how would the TD come into play with dual props? would those be able to work together or are they situation dependent? i would assume a TD fit hookbill might be better because either way it forces the target to get closer which is the main reason im losing because of range. if a target orbiting me at ~19k was TD'd by me, what would be the average range of the target to be able to engage me while being TD'd? just outa curiosity. my reasoning is if its a fast ship like another firetail or even a dramiel or something of the like, i want to be able to web them which i know my overheated web range is 13km. would 19km TD'd be brought down to at least 13k or so? |
Daneel Trevize
The Scope
Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 22:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
You can use EFT/PyFA to see the effect of a TD on a ship fit (projected effects iirc). Also with dual prop you can use the range script in the TD to make them come close while you're mwding, and then the tracking speed script along with your AB to continue to ruin their guns' applied dps if you're in close.
If you're planning to scram, web and keep at the edge of tackle range, you'd still want the range script or perhaps unscripted (gives a bit of both effects), depending on your target and yourself (if you seem to be under double webs/90%s/too neuted to AB/etc).
TDs do only work against guns, not missiles. ABs reduce dps from missiles, and when flown with transversal also reduce applied gun dps. And help you control range/transversal on a target to kill them or get out of tackle range. Everyone wishes for about 3 more midslots on all ships  |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 12:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Dual Prop]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Ballistic Control System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1MN Afterburner II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
This is basically it although if you change MAPC to tech 2 you can get rid of the ancillary router for a weapons rig. Its a great fit especially good for playing with people inside plexes as you can use the mwd to pull off tacklers that generally cant compete in the dps/tank stakes once you get them scrammed.
Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
[zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
http://themabinogion.blogspot.com/ |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1699
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 12:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
oh cripes. I didnt notice it was still a tech I mapc /o\
AF's and dessies have been grabbing my attention post-patch just as much as for everyone else.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 12:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:oh cripes. I didnt notice it was still a tech I mapc /o\
AF's and dessies have been grabbing my attention post-patch just as much as for everyone else.
Its ok we forgive you 
The fit does have trouble with some of the better range AFs (Wolf) but it should be able to take some of the other ones like the Enyo and badly flown blaster Harpys (i.e. no null).
Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
[zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
http://themabinogion.blogspot.com/ |
Bengal Bob
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
23
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 16:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Next time self destruct. If your opponent can't kill your frig quickly enough, then that is their problem.
When the notification goes up, they may well try to close distance to take you down quicker.
That is when you overheat everything and try to cut his orbit
Above all, don't be discouraged, and remember to keep trying different fits and ships till you find your one true love. |
BearJews
Android Arms And Industrial Corporation
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 18:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
This is my hookbill, cause well i believe it can beat almost any turret ship with proper control.
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, PvP]
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
|
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
BearJews wrote:This is my hookbill, cause well i believe it can beat almost any turret ship with proper control.
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, PvP]
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
thats a good fit, the only thing tho is the dual TD's on it. im assuming by doing that you are limiting the target to almost point blank range? (ie <5km) ill try this fit later and see how it goes cuz it seems it would be the perfect answer to those drams and firetails that like to kite at like 15-20km |
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