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Candidates: What about local?

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Taizu Lilith Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:12:00 - [1] Currently local is the premier scanning tool. Someone can rat or mine, and as soon as an enemy enters local, escape without the enemy ever getting a chance to engage. Additionally, local makes it hard to do real stealth observations. However, local is very important to see if there is someone there in the first place, scanning can be slow and tedious and having to do that in every system would be annoying. I agree that local is an easy solution, but is it best? What are your thoughts on local, and is there a better solution.
Taizu Lilith Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:12:00 - [2] Currently local is the premier scanning tool. Someone can rat or mine, and as soon as an enemy enters local, escape without the enemy ever getting a chance to engage. Additionally, local makes it hard to do real stealth observations. However, local is very important to see if there is someone there in the first place, scanning can be slow and tedious and having to do that in every system would be annoying. I agree that local is an easy solution, but is it best? What are your thoughts on local, and is there a better solution.
Coco Puff	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:31:00 - [3] I think that people that want local changes(99% at least) are the nano gank kiddies with nothing better to do than to run around and kill miners and explorers minding their own buisness. More often than not, competant pvpers watch local to bring the fight to you, not the other way around. Personally, I think local is just fine the way it is. No one should have the ability to enter a syste, and run around with complete impunity until they attack someone.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:36:00 - [4] Changing anything to local and how it works now would only be a change to give the pvpers a even easier opportunity to kill people. Its fine how it is now, smart people use local and the dumb ones, they will get killed anyway.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:45:00 - [5] And then it will be the war of the alts, alts at every gate in a cloaked ship. I don't like local, but if we want it gone, there should be a very solid system put in it's place.
Biscuit0 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.03 12:53:00 - [6] They should make local only report how many people come in and leave while you are in the system. You have no idea how many are in a system when you first enter but as people come and go the local count changes, the player is only identified if they speak (broadcast). I hope our CSM might push this to CCP.
Bunyip Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.05.03 18:26:00 - [7] Personally I like local, but I think there could be a few changes. The idea of 'powering down your ship' that was posted to the suggestions forum would work well. This idea entailed that you would be removed from local and even the overview for a time and lose all sensors except for the camera drone, but would require a bit to warm back up (~30 seconds). While warming up, you would be visible in local but unable to activate modules, target, or warp (you could move under normal power though). I see this as a balanced approach, and it would add a lot of gameplay ideas. Since you wouldn't be able to see local either, you would have to rely on the camera drone. You could see a ship entering the system if near a stargate, but not the details of that ship (name, corp, etc). - Bunyip
Ma Zhiqiang Minmatar Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.04 00:00:00 - [8] I think the ideas behind Real Space Initiative are really interesting, and I want to see a development towards bigger areas with the primal goal to let PVP happen elsewhere than outside stations, at gates or at belts. Having momentarily update of who's in local, is one way why people blob up. If they see one enemy in local, they make sure they are 2:1 or 30:1 as in many cases. With no local, you become much more dependent by scouts and further on, an improved directional scanner/radar or alike.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.05.04 00:15:00 - [9] I'm not convinced that removing local entirely is at all a good idea, but I am open to suggestions such as a live count of blues, greys and reds without naming names (unless they choose to speak), or something along those lines. Definitely an example of an issue that I'm continuing to follow discussion about. /Ben
cimmaron Caldari Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Biscuit0 They should make local only report how many people come in and leave while you are in the system. You have no idea how many are in a system when you first enter but as people come and go the local count changes, the player is only identified if they speak (broadcast). I hope our CSM might push this to CCP. Yet again, another example of a ganker trying to get his rocks off. Someone please give a VALID reason why local needs to be changed at all. Because it allows someone to get away? Oh, wait, i know, because it allows you to not get a 50 man gank squad deep into someone elses territory w/o their intel channel being at all effective.
Inanna Zuni Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:44:00 - [11] Currently, local gives a pilot a system-wide list of others in their system. it doesn't show if they are cloaked ten kms from them, in a belt at the other side of the system, or in an NPC base or POS, let alone size of ship, so it isn't a complete statement of what danger lurks in that system in any way. Whilst not pre-judging this at all i think there might be merit in 'adjusting' local along the lines that, say, in 0.6 systems and above local works as currently, but as you traverse down to 0.0 systems local only shows the list of pilots within a particular radius of your position - a bit like the basic ship scanner, so that in 0.5 it reach 8AU, in 0.4 7AU, etc, until in 0.0 ir only reach 1AU. This could also have some relationship to the possible electronics on your ship; in hisec Empire space you have your ships' sensors but also receive immediate updates from CONCORD and the gates but ion lowsec the gate transmitters don't reach so far ... IZ
John Blick	Posted - 2008.05.04 14:55:00 - [12] I am for local, against BACON.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.05.05 18:04:00 - [13] Originally by: cimmaron Originally by: Biscuit0 They should make local only report how many people come in and leave while you are in the system. You have no idea how many are in a system when you first enter but as people come and go the local count changes, the player is only identified if they speak (broadcast). I hope our CSM might push this to CCP. Yet again, another example of a ganker trying to get his rocks off. Someone please give a VALID reason why local needs to be changed at all. Because it allows someone to get away? Oh, wait, i know, because it allows you to not get a 50 man gank squad deep into someone elses territory w/o their intel channel being at all effective. Keep in mind this goes two ways - killing local will also hurt, or at least slow down, belt pirating and hunting. Especially in systems with a lot of stuff floating in space and making it difficult to scan, a group could be chasing ghosts in a system for a while. That being said, its a price to pay for something that would make the game better. Instead of sitting an alt in system and using it to monitor local, you'd instead either have to move an alt w/i scan range of a gate of interest and spam the scanner, or get on grid at long range to watch it. This takes a bit more effort than the first system mentioned, and if the defenders of the space aren't paying enough attention, a raiding group can move into their systems and use a thing called "surprise" to their advantage. Might even reduce the rate of nanoships, if people can actually sneak up on others for a change. Goal Line Blitz, an American Football MMO
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.05.05 18:39:00 - [14] Originally by: John Blick I am for local, against BACON. agreed. the local problem has been countered anyways. pirates send alts in coverts ahead, NPC corps or even more harmless player corps. once the victim is tackled, they jump in and warp straight to it. - local problem has been workarounded already, there are tricks available - for local, against bacon recruiting -forum
Taizu Lilith Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:10:00 - [15] I think that local is part of the reason why we have NBSI and the plethora of alt-corp spies. If there was no local, people would more likely move around in their primary characters because the added intel wouldn't be worth it.
Tusko Hopkins HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:45:00 - [16] I think local has to go and should be replaced with something "slower" or less informative. Nano gank kiddies with nothing better to do than to run around and kill miners and explorers are hit by a disappearing local just as much as miners and explorers because they dont know that there is something to gank. Local is used both by attackers and defenders. I could imagine a new local system which delays the appearance of locals. In order to provide advantage for the ones fighting at home (so that people do not get ganked in their home systems so easily) I could imagine POS modules which speed up the local for the defenders. And maybe a module for recon ships that does the same, for attackers. Or some similar solution. But in general, I think local, in its current form, should go.

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