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Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.05.05 13:30:00 -
[1]
I am having a difficult time accepting the fact that a player can complete a plex, then cloak in that plex and go afk till downtime rendering the plex, and especially digital plexes, that respawn right away when completed, unplayable by anyone else. I can think of no benefit of completing the plex and then cloaking in it to keep it open except for the sole purpose farming it. Which I do believe is an exploit.
The tactic is this:
1.The player scans down the plex
2.The player runs the plex completing the objectives
3.The player cloaks in the plex (rendering it un-respawnable) until local conditions are favorable for him to leave the plex beginning the respawn process. Since he is cloaked, there is no way for others to find and eliminate him, to force a respawn.
4.Once favorable conditions are found in the constellation
5.The player leaves the plex starting the respawn cycle.
6.The player scans the plex again.
7.repeat.
The exploit is that a plex can be kept open till downtime even if completed, simply by cloaking in it.
Currently, from what I have been told by GMĘs is that going afk no matter what state (cloak ū no cloak) is not an exploit. I can understand the reasoning behind that, but should this tactic be able to hold a plex permanently open?
Is this considered farming?
Now one can argue that if the player has spent the time and isk perfecting his ability to scan down the plex faster than anyone else, then he should be able to do with it as he pleases. I agree with this.
My whole beef is that cloaking is allowed in a plex. If you disable cloaking the same way MWDs are disabled, there would be no way to exploit it this way. Competition would flourish.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:20:00 -
[2]
You can kill him before he cloaks (at the plex gate for example). If you cant - too bad.
Also - you mean hes "exploiting" blocking plex so you can not "exploit" bugged respawns? Exploiter exploited - thats all.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:31:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Punaineefor Gaius
Is this considered farming?
It IS farming. But farming is not forbidden 
1|2|3|4|5. |
Punaineefor Gaius
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Also - you mean hes "exploiting" blocking plex so you can not "exploit" bugged respawns? Exploiter exploited - thats all.
hahaha... how could one exploit it, if you cant keep it from respawning. They spawn in other systems once completed you know.. you need to scan it out each time... It allows others to compete for the rich resource... just as all other rich resources in the game.
All I ask, is that one should not be allowed to cloak, or that staying inside the plex does not prevent respawn. If the runner wants to hide in protected levels of the plex... Let him do so.. but not being allowed to cloak just means he has to tank the respawning ratts.
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Helen
coracao ardente
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:46:00 -
[5]
Elliott is that you?
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Alindyar
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:56:00 -
[6]
Bad Elliot, back in your cage!
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Ruddger
Minmatar
Omen Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.05 19:53:00 -
[7]
1. Its not an exploit. (So far as the GMs are concerned)
2. There is a bug that is being exploited by the farmers that is being looked into. (But it wont change anything its just done out of convienence not necessity)
3. The farmers can be beaten. The mechanics of the plex are such that the territorial holders of the plex can beat the farmers out if they are willing to put in the commitment.
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Elena Vherokia
Silent Service Limited
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Posted - 2008.05.28 09:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ruddger
3. The farmers can be beaten. The mechanics of the plex are such that the territorial holders of the plex can beat the farmers out if they are willing to put in the commitment.
Not true - scenario:
1. Server up (plex respawned)
2. All log in 1 second after server up and start scanning it (lets assume it is 3 players total - farmer alone)
3. Farmer scans plex first (some decent mechanics to do so)
4. Farmer warps in and either a. orbits gate cloaked or b. enters first stage cloaked (if possible) and orbits inside beacon
Territorial or not - there is nothing you can do. Territorial holding or not doesnt matter at all.
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sliver 0xD
exiles.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 10:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ruddger
3. The farmers can be beaten. The mechanics of the plex are such that the territorial holders of the plex can beat the farmers out if they are willing to put in the commitment.
NOBODY can kill a cloaked ship in a plex. so stop saying you can becouse you simply cant.
ive done the kill em at the entrence thing. get a kill every week or so. and still end up doing 1 plex a day. and they will never stop.
u just cant compete to a isk farmer who has no job and lives of the rmt. and yes this is big isk for rmt. you can make about 2 bil a day if done right.
and this isue will not be solved anytime soon. altho ccp says there doing stuff against isk farmers, in fact they do nothing.
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Somebody needs a hug! |
Ruddger
Omen Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.28 11:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: sliver 0xD
Originally by: Ruddger
3. The farmers can be beaten. The mechanics of the plex are such that the territorial holders of the plex can beat the farmers out if they are willing to put in the commitment.
NOBODY can kill a cloaked ship in a plex. so stop saying you can becouse you simply cant.
ive done the kill em at the entrence thing. get a kill every week or so. and still end up doing 1 plex a day. and they will never stop.
u just cant compete to a isk farmer who has no job and lives of the rmt. and yes this is big isk for rmt. you can make about 2 bil a day if done right.
and this isue will not be solved anytime soon. altho ccp says there doing stuff against isk farmers, in fact they do nothing.
1. Where did I say you can kill a cloaked ship in a plex? I said they can be beaten with time and effort. Let me build you a box, you can sit in it and I will kill farmers by sitting outside it.
2. You can compete, its easy. Find the plex. Sit your own ship inside it cloaked. Go live your life. Farmer loses.
3. If you want to look stupid, don't use spell check. Infact screw capitalization and punctuation too. The i R teh bestors argument always wins in the end.
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Ruddger
Omen Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.28 11:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Elena Vherokia
Originally by: Ruddger
3. The farmers can be beaten. The mechanics of the plex are such that the territorial holders of the plex can beat the farmers out if they are willing to put in the commitment.
Not true - scenario:
1. Server up (plex respawned)
2. All log in 1 second after server up and start scanning it (lets assume it is 3 players total - farmer alone)
3. Farmer scans plex first (some decent mechanics to do so)
4. Farmer warps in and either a. orbits gate cloaked or b. enters first stage cloaked (if possible) and orbits inside beacon
Territorial or not - there is nothing you can do. Territorial holding or not doesnt matter at all.
1. Just before DT scan down the plex. Since its being farmed on a regular basis it isnt going to be affected by the 24/72 hr respawn mechanic.
2. Just after DT warp a smart bombing ship to the gate, bang dead prober.
Alternative
1. Drop probes along with the farmer. Begin racing to the site.
2. Use your onboard scanner to check for probes and wrecks. If wrecks begin to appear or you see sift probes that aren't yours its time to grab your PVP alt. I recommend a hac with an afterburner.
3. Switch to ship scanning on your probes and lock onto the sig of the farmers plex running ship. This ship will have to be de-cloaked to actually run the plex and you should get a 0 hit even with quests very fast.
4. Bring your PVP ship into the plex and burn to the second room. If you were fast enough you should be just in time to see the farmer locked down by the scram rats and taking fire from all sides. Time for some sweet sweet vengeance.
When done with either tatic, remember to leave your own cloaked ship in the plex.
These are only 2 options you have. There is also sitting combat ships with high lock times or smart bombs at the farmers prob spots (find these by scanning for probes/drones). Have ships waiting on the gates. Waiting for the farmers in the second room if you get there first. Etc Etc. Time and strategy are all that is required, and while the farmer may have no life, you (the territorial alliance) have many many people who can make up for that deficit.
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.28 21:04:00 -
[12]
I've recently taken a great interest in this subject as we have enemies runnning our Complex doing exactly what is described here. I petitioned it, and was told its not an exploit. Yes, some of the suggestions listed are doable abiet very, very difficult. Expecially when you're up against isk sellers.
The problem is that these sites are so lucrative that if you can just run them for a single day you'll be able to pimp out your ships beyond what a normal player can afford. So for example you'll always be at a disadvantage in finding the plex first, etc.
My plex is camped by two groups of our enemies. One finds the plex after DT, then runs it with an Ishtar. They will happily just block the complex, being the asshat type who only plays Eve to ruin someone elses fun. (BTW: No, they are not Goons, although I'm sure they are honorary members just because of their shared goal of destroying Eve) The other get the plex handed off to them as they pass from Euro to US Tz. Same people, doing the same thing, everyday.
As much as I'd like to be the one doing the Exploiting, I'd rather they changed any one of several things which would prevent this kind of exploit. Its so odd to me that CCP will sanction this kind of pot of gold, which is totally unbalanced in the Risk/Reward department. Any one of the following would stop this:
1> No cloaking in deadspace
2> Require all NPC's to be killed before gates work
3> Despawn after certain amount of time when Boss is killed
4> Random respawn times instead of instantaneous after plex is finished
5> Random despawn instead of the predictable DT despawn
In spite of the ease of the fix, CCP don't consider the current situation an exploit. The official response was 'use ingame means to defeat them.'
Well, I'm trying that. So far, we've completely removed one of their alliances from 0.0 and are crushing them where we can find them. Someday, they're gonna run out of probes and won't be able to get back into 0.0, I hope. Kinda a shame that there are little other methods we can try other than blobbing the system 23/7.
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Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 23:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
I've recently taken a great interest in this subject as we have enemies runnning our Complex doing exactly what is described here. I petitioned it, and was told its not an exploit. Yes, some of the suggestions listed are doable abiet very, very difficult. Expecially when you're up against isk sellers.
This.
These guys are running the new Virtue probing implants for sure, and have maxed out everything else including hardwirings, they find the complexes ridiculously fast after DT, while it IS doable to find the complex before one of the farmers, its highly unlikely.
A few tactics work OK (none of them hugely successful) , you can use a recon prober with snoop probes to actually scan down his Radar quest probes. Fit a small smartbomb and get a couple guys doing it and you can basically deny him the coverage to scan down the site. However, sometimes the farmer will still find the site before your characters get a chance to kill too many probes, its THAT fast.
OR, you can super blob the constellation, well not blob, but 10+ guys are needed, setup large bubbles on every gate and deny the farmers entry into the other systems the complex can spawn at. Again, this can still fail because sometimes the complex spawns after DT where they are already logged off and waiting.
Good luck. Farmers suck ass.
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Kusotarre
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.29 07:06:00 -
[14]
God you two are whiny (Jodi and Vengeance).
Ruddger there is probably Elliott himself, and everything he is saying is right.
I've been working on these guys for the past month or two, and I died a couple times, and I've learned a lot about how to deal with them.
It's not nearly a big a deal as you make it out to be, either in the ISK you can make, or in the ability of a small group of people to cut them out of the plex, while getting in some farming time of your own.
Jodi, talk to me ingame and I can help fill you in.
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Elena Vherokia
Silent Service Limited
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Posted - 2008.05.29 08:28:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 29/05/2008 08:28:50
Originally by: Ruddger
<snip>
These are only 2 options you have. There is also sitting combat ships with high lock times or smart bombs at the farmers prob spots (find these by scanning for probes/drones). Have ships waiting on the gates. Waiting for the farmers in the second room if you get there first. Etc Etc. Time and strategy are all that is required, and while the farmer may have no life, you (the territorial alliance) have many many people who can make up for that deficit.
I am sorry to tell Ruddger, but you do not have very much experience with smart farmers. Basically it seems that all in here talk about "their" Cosmos plexes.
The tactics you described are the mere basiscs. There is much more you can do. Still - one fact remains: you can not stop the farmer from interrupting the plex despawn. 0 chance, since current game mechanis do not allow to really stop them from sitting cloaked inside.
Now you might refer once more to your really, really smart smartbomb idea (as if you are the only one thinking about it) - forget it. You can kill idiot farmers with it, but no Pro's.
I can live with someone outskilling me, as long as there is a chance for me to do something. As in stopping despawn, there is zero chance for a counter.
If you dont believe me, hit me up ingame. And no, I am not willing to post a farmer's cook recipe on how to deadlock a plex.
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Penel0pe
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Posted - 2008.05.29 12:12:00 -
[16]
The solution is easy: nerf 0.0 COSMOS plexes, let them spawn region wide and not only in a single constellation. Maybe double the amount of the plexes to even out the lower chance of a find. High sec COSMOS was nerfed because of farming, do the same with 0.0 COSMOS. But do it in one week, i need to buy all deadspace items from contracts first. 
Let the flames start . . . . . |
slothe
Murky Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 12:32:00 -
[17]
solution is easy nerf cloaks :D
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Ruddger
Omen Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.30 02:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Elena Vherokia
Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 29/05/2008 08:28:50
I am sorry to tell Ruddger, but you do not have very much experience with smart farmers. Basically it seems that all in here talk about "their" Cosmos plexes.
The tactics you described are the mere basiscs. There is much more you can do. Still - one fact remains: you can not stop the farmer from interrupting the plex despawn. 0 chance, since current game mechanis do not allow to really stop them from sitting cloaked inside.
Now you might refer once more to your really, really smart smartbomb idea (as if you are the only one thinking about it) - forget it. You can kill idiot farmers with it, but no Pro's.
I can live with someone outskilling me, as long as there is a chance for me to do something. As in stopping despawn, there is zero chance for a counter.
If you dont believe me, hit me up ingame. And no, I am not willing to post a farmer's cook recipe on how to deadlock a plex.
Sorry to tell you Elena but you don't have very much experience in PVP. See what I did there? I made an unqualifiedly statement about you instead of making a counterpoint to your argument, thus weakening your position. The sarcasm works well too, good follow up. Then setting up the specter of the uber-farmer, with out having to give him any tangible qualities, brilliant.
A quick check in game would show that I am an ex bruce, so it would follow that I have had dealing with farmers in the Pegasus constellation plex. I know that the few strategies I have listed work, because I used them to great effect. Not sure where you are getting your experience from.
But as far as I am concerned there are only 2 types of people who run this plex. Those in it for the drug trade who need run it once per day, and farmers. My only goal was to prevent the farmers from running the plex over and over denying me access to the BPCs in the last room. That you aren't able to run this plex over and over because of the farmers, or those like me holding up the plex so that only the territorial alliance has access to them, I consider a good thing. They are not out skilling you, you just want to be the one farming from what I read.
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