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Can capsuleers have children?

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Astarta Atrax The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 16	Posted - 2012.03.03 09:08:00 - [1] - Quote Any references about that in chronicles or dev-blogs or somewhere else? After some searching I found only this
MidnightWyvern Night Theifs Fatal Ascension 5	Posted - 2012.03.03 23:34:00 - [2] - Quote You know, I honestly hadn't thought of that before. I mean, I know Mens Reppola has a daughter, but I think he and his wife had her -before- he became a capsuleer. Since the bodily modifications are mainly to the central nervous system, I wouldn't figure that reproductive function would be impeded, but that's just my opinion, obviously. I'm curious to see others weigh in on this.
Horatius Caul Kitzless 42	Posted - 2012.03.03 23:58:00 - [3] - Quote Almost certainly. The question is: are cloned/modified bodies fertile? It's certainly possible that clones aren't built to conceive children, and while they are certainly anatomically correct may not have all the necessary plumbing, so to speak. This could be for any number of reasons - simplicity of production and as an actual service to the users most likely. However, even if clones are sterile, it would be easy to get a child. The EVE universe has advanced genetic design and modification, as well as artificial gestation (although that may have been phased out of the setting). It would be easy for a capsuleer to have a bunch of ideal sperm and/or eggs produced and implanted in a surrogate/artificial womb/gestation clone/whatever. Amarrad - Amarr language project
Ender Black Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners 77	Posted - 2012.03.04 05:52:00 - [4] - Quote This video would suggest that clones are not biologically fertile nor designed to propagate. The Pod Goo Podcast http://www.podgoo.com Pod Goo also publishes editorials, guest blogs, and guides for free. -áJust email [email protected] your material.
Astarta Atrax The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 16	Posted - 2012.03.04 08:10:00 - [5] - Quote Thanks for answers guys! But is there any official reference of capsuleer get sex and/or some babies?
Jeyson Vicious The Scope Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.03.05 02:25:00 - [6] - Quote The taxi cab capsuleer in Total Recall had 5 kids to feed.
Caroline Grace Almost Approved 9	Posted - 2012.03.05 03:13:00 - [7] - Quote Literally speaking, I think it's quite impossible to deny biological background of any living form - no matter how "upgraded" or "cloned" it is. Capsuleers are biological, there's still need for all that stuff around sex (hormones, biological clocks, etc) to actually be "functional" enough to feel being alive. So about 99,9% I'm pretty sure the answer is and must be yes
Mirima Thurander Deventer Exploration An Acquisition 262	Posted - 2012.03.05 05:12:00 - [8] - Quote so long as they can keep from being podded for 8 - 9 months i see no reason why not I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh.
Horatius Caul Kitzless 42	Posted - 2012.03.05 10:08:00 - [9] - Quote Astarta Atrax wrote: Thanks for answers guys! But is there any official reference of capsuleer get sex and/or some babies? Yes, two capsuleers have sex in The Empyrean Age. That doesn't answer the sterility question though. Mirima Thurander wrote: so long as they can keep from being podded for 8 - 9 months i see no reason why not You could let the gestation take place in a separate clone (like a jump clone). Amarrad - Amarr language project
Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 88	Posted - 2012.03.05 14:15:00 - [10] - Quote The Sansha NPC "Slave Heavenbound02" is the remnant of my character's fiancee and infant son, so that could be an official answer.

Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar 73	Posted - 2012.03.05 18:47:00 - [11] - Quote I think it's a different question for male and female capsuleers. Men are constantly producing sperm; for them, as long as they're given a functioning set of genitals I'd say it's safe to assume that they should be perfectly fine. Women, on the other hand, as far as natural reproduction goes, are given a set of eggs at birth, and that's all they get.* The question here is, do their clones include a set of eggs or not, and if they do, are those eggs viable? If not, that would imply to me that a female capsuleer looking to have a child of her own (that is, genetically-speaking) might need to resort to technology-based alternatives, or have retained her original birth body. * As an aside, it's worth noting that recent research (1 & 2 - both links @ npr.org) has shown that this may no longer be a limitation sometime in the near future, which might make the second half of the question moot.
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative 53	Posted - 2012.03.09 13:42:00 - [12] - Quote well, according to the empyrean age novel, capsuleers (specifically 2 fednav pilots) have no troubles in the intercourse department... it would stand to reason that, given the seemingly large number of young female capsuleers, there would be a way for them to concieve and breed... though capsuleers don't really have to worry about that whole 'biological clock' thing. it's not like it will ever run out.
Jowen Datloran Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 359	Posted - 2012.03.10 11:19:00 - [13] - Quote I would honestly think all capsuleers would breed through some tube-child solution, if they want to produce offspring. It appears more fitting for control freaks as capsuleers. Also it would remove the physical stress of being pregnant as to not let it interfere with pod operation and the cloning process. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative 53	Posted - 2012.03.11 13:17:00 - [14] - Quote not sure about that one jowen... it didn't seem to work out so well for the jovians. :P
Jowen Datloran Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 360	Posted - 2012.03.11 13:23:00 - [15] - Quote The problem for the Jovians arose from tampering with their DNA. That is not to be recommended and not a necessity for tube-child reproduction. Besides, many good Caldari capsuleers are already a product of our tube-child programs. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á

CCP Abraxas C C P C C P Alliance 35	Posted - 2012.03.12 15:28:00 - [16] - Quote Astarta Atrax wrote: Thanks for answers guys! But is there any official reference of capsuleer get sex and/or some babies? Here's one: Capsuleers are not sterile by default, nor do they have any missing organs or interior plumbing. There is a slightly stronger tendency among them to have that stuff removed than there is among the general population, but it's not anywhere near a majority of the entire capsuleer class. You don't see capsuleers (at least not the ones I've encountered) taking steps to rid themselves of any other base desires - greed, resentment, anger or hate - and I truly don't see them wanting to rid themselves of the sexual one, either. Moreover, we don't want the capsuleer option to be "You'll be rich and powerful beyond your wildest dreams ... but you can never have children." It's a decent hook for a story or two at most, but for any writing work beyond that, it's far too restrictive. So if they want, they can, but they don't have to.

Katrina Oniseki Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 354	Posted - 2012.03.12 15:51:00 - [17] - Quote Nice. So Capsuleers are not sterile by nature. It would be interesting to get some insight on how pregnancy can affect use of the capsule, and vice versa. Certainly there's the obvious limitations with regards to second and third trimester and physical changes... but I'm more interested in the strong hormonal changes and how they might affect flight. Would they manifest themselves as strange anomalies that affect ship performance like boosters do? Something subtle, sure, but you might notice something very strange of 'off'. Say a pregnant woman a couple weeks into it finds she is having difficulty performing certain maneuvers, or use of shield boosters is significantly more uncomfortable for her? Interesting.
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 193	Posted - 2012.03.12 17:51:00 - [18] - Quote Possible yes, practical, no ;) Although I imagine some odd metaphors with a capsuleer in their pod appearing quite fetal whilst having their own child developing in-utero.... I imagine surrogate pregnancy would be the easiest method. When most of us are stupidly wealthy it would be a non-issue to hire some fertile young people to carry and birth your child in comfort and safety while you are out and about causing trouble in the world ;)
Astarta Atrax The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx 17	Posted - 2012.03.12 19:30:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Abraxas wrote: So if they want, they can, but they don't have to. Thanks for the dev-answer, it's exactly what I needed! BTW, I like your chronicles very much, especially Black Mountian. I've tranlsated almost all of them into Russian :proud: Reading them even inspired me to write a chronicle of my own. :doubleproud:
Greygal Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 103	Posted - 2012.03.12 21:21:00 - [20] - Quote I think there is a subtle social and cultural inclination for active capsuleers to not have children, even though they are biologically capable of doing so. I suspect there is an inherent conflict of interest between the capsuleer's career and parenthood. Children require a lot of time and effort to raise, much of which likely would be spent planet or stationside, after all. As a busy capsuleer fighting the various threats that exist in New Eden, I don't think I would be a very effective mother since I would not be able to spend very much time with my child or children. Then there is the whole immortality thing... As a woman, I'm not entirely sure I would want to have children that, unless they followed my career choice, would likely visibly age and physically die while I still fly around looking like I'm in my early 30s. What mother - or father - wants to have children knowing that without doubt, they will outlive their own children? I know that if I were to decide to have children, I would be torn between missing them when off flying on one mission or another, and yearning for the great wide open of space when I was tending to their needs planet or station-side. Based on my experiences, I have ZERO doubt that the sexual drive exists amongst my fellow capsuleers... no, I will not expand on the details of this ... but the drive for parenthood, for offspring and children... it is something so rarely discussed amongst my cohorts it is almost taboo. What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Zyress Deaths Head Brigade Vanguard. 37	Posted - 2012.03.13 19:45:00 - [21] - Quote Due to some unexpected grafix issues sometimes when I log on various parts of my anatomy or clothes are missing, and last night I had the misfortune to look up and see my avatar is hung like a Ken doll as his legs and butt were naked and the rest of him was missing except his hair. Based on that I was thinking not.
Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar 88	Posted - 2012.03.13 19:53:00 - [22] - Quote That's usually referred to as "lazy artist syndrome" or "keeping the T rating".
Zyress Deaths Head Brigade Vanguard. 37	Posted - 2012.03.13 20:09:00 - [23] - Quote On a more practical note I think immortality would kind of isolate a person, eventually they would cut ties with people that they would outlive (psycholologically easier) or grow tired of,( there are very few people I could spend 24 hours with let alone an eternity). A Capsoleer's life is spent mostly alone. Given the nature of the Eve universe you always suspect treachery and violence from anyone you do meet. If a Capsuleer does crave companionship s/he probably goes to a pleasure hub and buys it (Preferable to the emotional baggage of a real relationship).
Terazul The Scope Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2012.03.14 02:01:00 - [24] - Quote Greygal wrote: I suspect there is an inherent conflict of interest between the capsuleer's career and parenthood. Children require a lot of time and effort to raise, much of which likely would be spent planet or stationside, after all. As a busy capsuleer fighting the various threats that exist in New Eden, I don't think I would be a very effective mother since I would not be able to spend very much time with my child or children. Depends on your occupation, I suppose. And your goals, for that matter. Me, as an enforcer for the Federation Navy, I only have to spend a smidgen of my time actually working (re: killing Serpentis goons by the thousands). Hell, realistically, I could retire whenever I want to (but that's boring, so of course that's not gonna happen anytime soon!). It would actually be quite trivial to devote a large portion of my time to raising a child; my sorties last all of a few hours, which is actually quite a luxury when you consider normal working hours tend to take a third of the day. And of course, as a capsuleer, I am free to accept employment at my own leisure. I can see how the situation would be very different for a pirate or someone working for an alliance in null security space. And of course, miners. Poor, poor miners. Yeah, if I were a miner, I would definitely not consider having a child. But traders? They only need a terminal to access market orders from, so they can effectively work from home, giving them 100% access to their children. It's also a rather peaceful living, which I think makes it the very best occupation for someone who seriously wants to raise a family. I don't know much about manufacturing or research, so I won't comment on those. Greygal wrote: Then there is the whole immortality thing... As a woman, I'm not entirely sure I would want to have children that, unless they followed my career choice, would likely visibly age and physically die while I still fly around looking like I'm in my early 30s. What mother - or father - wants to have children knowing that without doubt, they will outlive their own children? I have actually pondered this before, and my solution is to take the long view of things - don't think of it as raising a child... think of it as raising a lineage. You will have the opportunity to mentor your grandchildren, and great grandchildren, and their children, and so forth. Yes, it can be emotionally painful to have a loved one, especially a child, die of old age before you, but you still have their children, and your family line can continue ever-onwards. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there is a capsuleer out there who tries to maintain a genetic lineage that lasts over millennia. It's a very long-term goal, one suited to someone who can, essentially, live forever. And hey, who wouldn't wanna have a badass immortal grandfather who can tell you first-hand accounts of major battles that occurred several centuries ago? One who can pilot a massive starship capable of laying waste to entire cities on a whim? It'd be kinda like being the child of a god, really. And hey... some ordinary folks do think of capsuleers as gods.
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 194	Posted - 2012.03.14 15:30:00 - [25] - Quote Greygal wrote: I suspect there is an inherent conflict of interest between the capsuleer's career and parenthood. Children require a lot of time and effort to raise, much of which likely would be spent planet or stationside, after all. As a busy capsuleer fighting the various threats that exist in New Eden, I don't think I would be a very effective mother since I would not be able to spend very much time with my child or children. I'd disagree. We have only to look at the countless examples of wealthy and extremely busy parents in our own world who can afford to hire babysitters, live-in nannies, and tutors to raise their children for them. If throwing out some pocket change (a few million ISK), was enough money to hire a small army of caregivers, tutors, nannies, etc for years at a time, capsuleers would have little issue in siring several children at a time. Think of the royalty of old, who for all intents had a small army of advisors and caregivers to raise their children while they went about their own important business. Capsuleers are wealthier by 100x.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 3438	Posted - 2012.03.16 16:12:00 - [26] - Quote well it was mentioned in the novels but several emperyans had children. However it was uncertain if they where empyeran themselves or before the encapsulation process. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Hans Zwaardhandler Borealis Mining Concern IMPERIAL LEGI0N 13	Posted - 2012.03.18 03:12:00 - [27] - Quote Take into consideration as well, that people evolve over time. Six thousand years down the road or so when your linage is evolved differently than you are, your DNA will not be compatible with their's Basically, since immortal creatures in nature are not practical and would have incompatible DNA with younger generation creatures, a capsuleer would have to have a child within the first year or so, if their own body did not evolve (I am assuming it is not, right now).
Yoma Karima Kuloldas 8	Posted - 2012.03.19 17:53:00 - [28] - Quote Hans Zwaardhandler wrote: Take into consideration as well, that people evolve over time. Six thousand years down the road or so when your linage is evolved differently than you are, your DNA will not be compatible with their's Basically, since immortal creatures in nature are not practical and would have incompatible DNA with younger generation creatures, a capsuleer would have to have a child within the first year or so, if their own body did not evolve (I am assuming it is not, right now). Well that depends on if you want to have your clone evolve or not. You can always change your clone's DNA after all. Those who wish to end War wish to end what it means to be human. Those who advocate War do not know its power. Yet Those who learn from War will be remembered for all time.
Terazul The Scope Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2012.03.19 18:25:00 - [29] - Quote For the record, as long as the same base-pairs are there (23 in humans), there is at least some level of reproductive compatibility. Yes, even 6 thousand years down the line. In fact, I somehow doubt that someone born today would be completely incapable of siring a child from someone born in 4,000 BC. There just weren't enough changes in the human genome to suggest such a thing. Evolution happens very, very slowly, to the point where the changes simply aren't observable even over that long a timespan. Realistically speaking, it would take tens of thousands of years (thousands of generations) before the differences become pronounced enough that reproductive compatibility disappears, where the children simply aren't capable of coming to term - though there are other things to consider besides simply DNA, most particularly social mating practices (which is the foremost driver of reproductive discrimination in nature). For capsuleers, that's probably the biggest hurdle to reproductive success a couple thousand years down, as they'll be dealing with the social stigma associated with such powerful people. That, and the behavior of someone who's that old is probably going to be far and away from standard social practices of that era. Hence, their best hope is probably going to be each other - assuming they can find others who are even interested (most are not, I would imagine).
Wyke Mossari Staner Industries 170	Posted - 2012.03.19 20:10:00 - [30] - Quote In Templar One, when Mordus (An Empyrean) sends his son on a suicide mission, the son says he will have an eternity to replace him.



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