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Muskiet	Posted - 2008.05.05 22:34:00 - [1] I would like to put up a research POS in high-sec. In my previous corp I've dealt with POS's a lot so I know how and what in low-sec, and I've read a lot on the how's and what's on high-sec POS's but I've not seen a thing about the defence of them there other then "you might want at least a couple of guns at your POS". As I don't feel like losing the POS for reasons like Concord bug exploits or wardec's by grievers while i'm away for a couple of days (otherwise I'd have 24 hours to beef up the defence) I agree with that statement. This is my idea: A medium Shadow tower with a standard and an advanced mobile lab (medium gives me room to expand). 2x small railgun battery, 1x medium railgun battery (range for sniping bs's), 1x warp disruptor battery (Oh no you don't shoot at my POS and get away with it) and 1x sensor dampener battery (Come a little closer please ). As I said I don't know about the defence of high-sec POS's but I'm hoping somebody has had previous experiences (both on the giving and receiving end) of such defences. I know there's no way a dread or other cap ship will be able to pound on my tower in high-sec, therefore I'd like the defence to be as lean and mean as possible (lean of course for fuel use). Thank you for any input.
The mafioso	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:58:00 - [2] technically I dont believe that anyone can shoot a POS in empire, since you cannot control guns in empire, I'd need a dev confirmation on that, but what I heard was that basically the charters pay for that empires protection, you shouldn't need guns. couple of ECM's wouldn't hurt.. you can't shoot what you can't target.
Gantrithor105 Caldari Acerbus Vindictum	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:43:00 - [3] If you get war dec'd which often happens when research POSs are found, just slap a bunch of hardeners on there and a few medium guns. You'll be fine... Actually I'd leave them offline until you get dec'd. That'll give you a 24 hour window to switch from research mode to battlemode. Most corps will see the hardeners (even though they're offline) and not bother simply because of the huge added time hardeners require to kill a POS.
Elvid Tanz	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:18:00 - [4] Originally by: The mafioso technically I dont believe that anyone can shoot a POS in empire, since you cannot control guns in empire, I'd need a dev confirmation on that, but what I heard was that basically the charters pay for that empires protection, you shouldn't need guns. couple of ECM's wouldn't hurt.. you can't shoot what you can't target. You can certainly target a POS in high sec, and if you are at war you can shoot at it without CONCORD geting in the way. Other folks have posted from personal experience that you can control guns in high sec, you just can only use them against war targets.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Newbear on 06/05/2008 03:24:23 Read the guide in my link http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=548531 First of all I recommend Dread Gurista towers, there is a reason why they are the most expensive. Reason is they put out he most CPU giving you the most number of labs. Medium DG tower is perfect for 1 account's worth of research, 2 adv. labs + 5 regular = 11 copy slots and 19 ME slots for a total of 30. Its pretty easy to train up everyone on account to do 10 research jobs. I recommend 2 groups of guns, one on top of pos shields and one on bottom. Guns on top cover guns on bottom in case pies try close orbit. A ring of small guns around the middle woudent hurt either. I've read 12 bs are needed for around 8 hours to reinforce a medium pos. Unless you go and pick fights, no one bothers to attack a pos for the labs. The bs die too easily to guns. The risk is too high for the reward of labs. Consider hi-sec a free cyno jammer they can't knock out. Most pies I know S-gank ouside jita. Yes, you can pause research jobs AND resume them by turning them back online or offline. This frees up cpu to online guns. Also know that you can anchor as many guns as you want, just don't online them and they wont eat fuels. Be sure to anchor web and disrupt batts as well. I also recommend anchoring giant secure cans full of ammo for your guns. The cans should be placed just inside shields but close as possible to guns. And last but not least! You can control pos guns in hi-sec now. They fixed that a few months ago. Click here for my High Security POS Service
RedLion Caldari Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:33:00 - [6] DG is best for research , however Shadow give you a bit better turrets. I mean, put up some stasis webifiers, warp scramblers, medium and small rail guns and be ready to melt you enemy. No point adding large guns in high sec, even for large pos. I wonder how many towers in high sec is actually destroyed, can't be that many. i also think that you can keep BPOs in a station in same system and still do research on it at pos, so even if your pos is destroyed you still keep BPO. I can't confirm this, but it's a rumour I have heard :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:09:00 - [7] Originally by: RedLion I wonder how many towers in high sec is actually destroyed, can't be that many. You'd be surprised, very surprised. A better question is why can't people with expensive BPO's learn Scientific Networking... ----- Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:30:00 - [8] Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 06/05/2008 12:31:18 Originally by: RedLion I wonder how many towers in high sec is actually destroyed, can't be that many. Considering that many highsec towers are in alt corps attended weekly, sometime you can wardec, reinforce, wait, pop tower, scoop labs before the real owner even knows it. And that's when they are not too cheap to stront their towers... Originally by: Shionoya Risa A better question is why can't people with expensive BPO's learn Scientific Networking... Wink Yeah, each time you repackage a lab it's a bit like Christmas.
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:32:00 - [9] Originally by: The mafioso technically I dont believe that anyone can shoot a POS in empire, since you cannot control guns in empire, I'd need a dev confirmation on that, but what I heard was that basically the charters pay for that empires protection, you shouldn't need guns. couple of ECM's wouldn't hurt.. you can't shoot what you can't target. You CAN control POS guns in empire it was added in ages back, see these patch notes, right at the very bottom.
Mannakin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.06 14:35:00 - [10] Originally by: RedLion i also think that you can keep BPOs in a station in same system and still do research on it at pos, so even if your pos is destroyed you still keep BPO. I can't confirm this, but it's a rumour I have heard :) Never put the BPO in the POS labs. Deploy your tower in a system where you have an office and do the research from the office. You can even lock down the BPO in the office and still research it remotely at the POS. I haven't tried this in high sec, but it works elsewhere and I see no reason why it wouldn't work in high sec. Use medium guns for anti-BS work and train for POS gunning. Stick 2 warp disruptor on the tower (one offline). I wouldn't bother with small guns.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.05.06 19:21:00 - [11] One other thing. You would also be suprised by the number of offline towers in hi-sec ppl have frogotten about. Some even have labs and other structures just sitting there. If pies are too lazy to attack offline pos in hi-sec with a war dec, then the probability of them decing you and attacking an online tower is even lower. Click here for my High Security POS Service
Muskiet	Posted - 2008.05.07 04:42:00 - [12] Thanx all for your replies :) Now I'm wondering about is whether I'm get a Dread or Shadow. It's gonna be put up in Gallente space so it's probably easier and cheaper to get the proper fuels for it when its a Shadow. Also it's only me in my corp, so more then two labs is for the moment not even nescessary. I've been gone for almost a year though and I'm wondering... POS guns do still auto-attack war targets etc do they? Like I said... if I'm gone for a couple of days I'd like the POS to be safe to be left alone.
Muskiet	Posted - 2008.05.07 07:39:00 - [13] Well, I went ahead and probed out a bunch of POS's in high sec and looked at them for a while. Some of them are fortresses and others seem to be without any type of defences whatsoever. I've only seen one DG small tower but several Shadow mediums. I've gotten a tip in the "help" channel to put up a bunch of ECM's as well as they're cheap, don't require much fuel and can ruin a bs fleet's day. Most POS's seem to have hardeners and two sets of guns set up both on top and below the shield bubble. Gotta think about this for a bit longer :s Thanx all for your input.
Zeph Solaris Legitimate Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.07 07:43:00 - [14] I reccommend Amarr/Dark Blood/True Sansha medium towers for moderate lab use. It allows you to set up several labs with enough powergrid to use many more batteries than a gallente-based tower.
Trader Axim	Posted - 2008.05.07 16:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Newbear Edited by: Newbear on 06/05/2008 03:24:23 Read the guide in my link http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=548531 First of all I recommend Dread Gurista towers, there is a reason why they are the most expensive. Reason is they put out he most CPU giving you the most number of labs. Medium DG tower is perfect for 1 account's worth of research, 2 adv. labs + 5 regular = 11 copy slots and 19 ME slots for a total of 30. Its pretty easy to train up everyone on account to do 10 research jobs. I recommend 2 groups of guns, one on top of pos shields and one on bottom. Guns on top cover guns on bottom in case pies try close orbit. A ring of small guns around the middle woudent hurt either. I've read 12 bs are needed for around 8 hours to reinforce a medium pos. Unless you go and pick fights, no one bothers to attack a pos for the labs. The bs die too easily to guns. The risk is too high for the reward of labs. Consider hi-sec a free cyno jammer they can't knock out. Most pies I know S-gank ouside jita. Yes, you can pause research jobs AND resume them by turning them back online or offline. This frees up cpu to online guns. Also know that you can anchor as many guns as you want, just don't online them and they wont eat fuels. Be sure to anchor web and disrupt batts as well. I also recommend anchoring giant secure cans full of ammo for your guns. The cans should be placed just inside shields but close as possible to guns. And last but not least! You can control pos guns in hi-sec now. They fixed that a few months ago. 8 hours for 12 BS's to drop into reinforced? sorry that's wayyyy off. my friends take about 20 minutes usually. that's a regular gallente medium tower with no hardeners and no defencese. they have taken out a large in high sec with hardners and defences into reinforced in under a few hours.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.05.07 17:18:00 - [16] Hmm 20+ bs okay possible for a few hours to reinforce, but you have to come back and grind though structure as well. Thats at least 12 hours of sitting there staring at space for a medium tower. And ask your friends if they used dreads for the 30min reinforce. I say biggest threat to your hi-sec pos is spies and corp thiefs. Click here for my High Security POS Service
Galen Brustar Gallente A-1 Excavations	Posted - 2008.05.07 19:50:00 - [17] I'm looking at putting up my first POS and will be starting with a small Gallente tower and 1 mobile lab and expanding out to a second mobile lab and an advanced lab. After running the fitting numbers, it looks like I could also squeeze 4 medium hybrid towers in, and was thinking of doing a pair of rails and a pair of blasters. Would this be enough to make my POS an unattractive target or should I go with a different setup? Also, to use scientific networking from a station with a corp office, does that station need to offer lab services?
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:30:00 - [18] Edited by: Shionoya Risa on 07/05/2008 20:29:42 Originally by: Newbear Hmm 20+ bs okay possible for a few hours to reinforce, but you have to come back and grind though structure as well. That's at least 12 hours of sitting there staring at space for a medium tower. And ask your friends if they used dreads for the 30min reinforce. I say biggest threat to your hi-sec pos is spies and corp thiefs. What? Originally by: Galen Brustar Also, to use scientific networking from a station with a corp office, does that station need to offer lab services? Nope. Any station will do. ----- Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!
dev urandom	Posted - 2008.05.07 21:00:00 - [19] Well... How long it takes to be put into reinforced depends on your tower & their fleet. Personally I think e-war on POSes is pointless as the counter to e-war in this scenario is bring more ships. It can be useful but it doesn't "save" your POS, just delays the inevitable. Same thing with hardeners. You win by killing their stuff, not by making them unable to kill yours. If you're in empire you don't have to worry about dread fleets and carrier reps. But a well tanked BS with logistical support can be difficult to break even with medium guns. Chances are you won't have focused fire (POS gunners) or they wouldn't attack. Two rows of large guns will wreck a BS fleet. Chances are you won't need a deathstar in empire though. But having defense is definitely a good idea. A bit of firepower on your POS would deter a sizable BS fleet quickly. The idea here is to crush whoever comes. Forget dampening them or scramming them just make them a triangle.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.05.08 16:00:00 - [20] Personally I use a Large Domination tower in hi-sec. The reason being that it has an awful lot of shield (second only to DG ones I believe), a good ratio of CPU to powergrid and most importantly bonuses that give it excellent defensive capabilities. However I would never expect it to repel attackers without the guns being manned at the very least. Having seiged and defended a few POSes in my time I know from personal experience that an undefended POS will go down, it's just a matter of time. The Domination POS with medium artillery batteries is quite capable of taking down attacking ships with it's impressive alpha strike, which makes it particularly difficult to fend off using remote reps. Plus you can deal whatever blend of damage types you choose so aggressors cannot stack their tank against any particular type. However, the Dread Guristas towers do have the most CPU and shield so if you aren't planning to mount an active defence and you want to jam in the most labs you can then that is probably the way to go. If you're not going to man the guns then the benefit of the Domination tower would be wasted. Oh, and POS ECM isn't much good at all. I'd much rather have (manned) guns and a few Falcons or Scorps to provide the e-war support. However, I have found that Sensor Dampening batteries can often be fit in the small amounts of PG and CPU you tend to have left after fitting everything you actually need. They're not particularly powerful but they can inconvenience the enemy and if you're not going to use the fitting for anything else then it's a no-brainer as far as I am concerned.
Bom Bolenath	Posted - 2008.05.09 22:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Bad Bobby I have found that Sensor Dampening batteries can often be fit in the small amounts of PG and CPU you tend to have left after fitting everything you actually need. They're not particularly powerful but they can inconvenience the enemy . . .. Aren't damps necessary to get sniping BS'es within the range of medium guns? My understanding was that large guns were great for dreads but have poor enough tracking to do badly even with a BB moving at full impulse speed. Also, with Apocs and Rokh's, for example, aren't SDs necessary even to get the target within ewar/web/scram range? Finally: aren't lasers an important consideration b/c they use no cpu and, unless destroyed, will be there shooting when your tower comes out of reinforced? I'm not trying to be snarky; I'm just new to this and still have a lot of open questions about the best high-sec pos defense strategy, especially on small and medium towers.
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2008.05.09 23:29:00 - [22] Originally by: The mafioso since you cannot control guns in empire wasnt that changed? i hope so cause i just told someone in another thread they can Originally by: Elise Randolph Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
Jonas Vinthyn Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.10 01:43:00 - [23] Take the tower your planning on putting up. Fit it to its PG and CPU limits with guns, a couple hardeners, and some EW (se sig for a program to id this. lol). Fill the guns with ammo and offline them all. Thats right, offline them all and put up your labs. If/when you get war deced offline all the labs and online all the goffense/defense. Everything in the labs will just get paused and when you online them again it will start back where it left off. Also as someone mentioned keep the expensive BPO's in a station and use the scientific research skill to remotely research/copy. I doubt there is ever more then 50 mil in BPO's in our labs at any given time. All the good BPO's are in lockdown in a station. With 24 hours notice you could even cancel your jobs, offline & unanchor the labs, and store them in a station till the war is over. -Jonas My POS - POS Fitting and Fuel Calc Stats!
Slave Runner	Posted - 2008.05.10 01:50:00 - [24] Yes you can control them in highsec now. See an earlier post for the patchnotes link. And ECM is actually useful for highsec POS defense (unmanned). It reduces incoming DPS. Combined with a large faction tower and a couple of hardeners, taking down that POS becomes just so annoying, not many will bother as long as there are easier and equally juicy targets.
Pandora Alana	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:00:00 - [25] I am looking into this issue myself. I want to anchor two mobile labs and advanced one later on. Shall I go for a medium domination with: 4 medium arty's, 2 energy neuts and a sensor dampenor?
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:25:00 - [26] You have been able to both wardec then kill, and control guns in highsec for a while now, 2 odd years ago you could do neither. Hardners and ECM will make a highsec POS an absolute ***** to takedown. Then bring in your own fleet and some controlled guns to clean them up.
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.15 11:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Lord Fitz Hardners and ECM will make a highsec POS an absolute ***** to takedown. Then bring in your own fleet and some controlled guns to clean them up. Confirming how annoying ECM and hardeners really are. -----
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.05.15 18:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Considering that many highsec towers are in alt corps attended weekly, sometime you can wardec, reinforce, wait, pop tower, scoop labs before the real owner even knows it. And that's when they are not too cheap to stront their towers... This is the reason that if you're in an alliance it's better to have a dedicated research corp. One or a few pilots get the right faction standing and stay in the corp. The occasional copy alt. But it's a live corp. Wardecs give you time to run intel on the opposing war-dec'ers. If you see a lot of BS pilots, down comes the tower, if it's just a few pirates war-decking you, you leave it up but anchor, and online the guns.

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