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StarWolfer
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Posted - 2004.04.28 09:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: StarWolfer on 28/04/2004 09:58:01
 Quote:
Have you read the Dev Blogs lately? The EVE team regularly blogs about their thoughts, current situation and upcoming things. Some recent blogs cover Customer Support status report, Hardware used for Tranquility and the next upgrade and Decentralization of highway systems.
Yes, we read them, and there can not be enough of them.
Patch announcements are more then welcome too. Last time the servers where going down for a patch, we really had to guess what was going on.
It was not announced, so I could not put on a long training time skill  .
Personally for me: any small thing (like a developer going to the toilet) can be "dev blogged" . I find it much more important then the ingame related news that another Amarr Emperor died, but that's just personal of course (not much of a roleplayer)  .
So in reply to your question: Yes, we read the Dev Blogs.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2004.04.28 10:11:00 -
[2]
Yes, more info of whats going on is more than welcome; BUT most of the older players and ex-betas are used to the secretive ways CCP follows (anyone remember the NDA?)...
It seems like CCP wants to keep a generel picture for everyone to see, but also make the players happy by suprising them!
Intercepting since BETA |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.04.28 10:11:00 -
[3]
I'm not sure we can get the devs to do a blog when they go to the toilet, but it can't hurt to ask, can it? 
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.04.28 10:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Wrangler
I'm not sure we can get the devs to do a blog when they go to the toilet, but it can't hurt to ask, can it?
i would laugh if it wasnt so criminal.
unfortunatley it seems the whole of CCP and its IDS force do not consider Dev blogs or interaction with the community to be of high importance at all.
sometime IDS/CCP even give the impression its somehow rude and demeaining for the players to actualy ask them questions. (note your comment above smacks of this attitude)
how can CCP/IDS have a careless attitude to such an integeral part of the whole shebang ?
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
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MacLagavulin
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Posted - 2004.04.28 11:28:00 -
[5]
Yes, I read them all, even chat logs or what ever. I agree with the other players in case of the information politics of CCP. It still could be much better, but it's better than it was a few month' ago.
What I would like to know is:
1. Why is the best place, to get important information quickly, a private fan-site? i.e. the server status should be shown here too, or is it allready and I never managed to find out where?
2. Why is it impossible (or seems to be) to depart the complete main website, including the forums, from the game server? It's useless if there are server problems and you can't get any information about it. This happens from time to time. btw.: I'm aware that any login here is doing a request to the main database 
if you don't show some respect, don't expect it from me |
lash
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Posted - 2004.04.28 12:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Wrangler
I'm not sure we can get the devs to do a blog when they go to the toilet, but it can't hurt to ask, can it?
I donÆt mean to sidetrack this post anymore than it already is, but, speaking of toilets, I've always wondered where they are in the pod. I mean are you sitting on the lazy bowl 5000 that you never need to get up from? Did scientist make a pill that means you never have to go? Is quafe the anti-laxitive? Or is it something unspeakable that involves tubes and a vacuum? 
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"You ever hear of the Seattle Seven? That was me. And, um, six other guys." |
Bohr
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Posted - 2004.04.28 12:17:00 -
[7]
As i play this game often, i would really like to read the dev blog. but the shortcut in news window does'nt function on my comp or uplink. Any leads on where to find it? Already searched forums.
Yours Bohr
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MacLagavulin
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Posted - 2004.04.28 12:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bohr
As i play this game often, i would really like to read the dev blog. but the shortcut in news window does'nt function on my comp or uplink. Any leads on where to find it? Already searched forums.
try eve-i.com ... the best and quickest information resource for the game, blogs are readable there and not just links to the original
if you don't show some respect, don't expect it from me |
Kel Kracken
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Posted - 2004.04.28 14:40:00 -
[9]
Just finishing my trial and signed up . Following browsing through all manner of websites and info other than the ones mentioned I'd have to recommend the following!
http://www.evegate.net/exclusives/
that has a huge list of the devlogs & Council meetings that have occured/are occuring. Very informative reading and nice if you are either alt-tabbing when in eve and warping or have an old pc lying around that I use for browsing.
As for the current devlogs found em here...
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp
Again would be nice if there was a 1/2 decent link rather than having to trawl everywhere to find everything.
There are so many sites around and some nice ones with some great tips.
The one I found most informative for a noob like me was
http://members.cox.net/webcore/eve/
What a great start for me playing and in less than 12 days have most of my learning skills at least at lvl 3. I now look at the skills I hadn't started pushing and see the drastic decrease in the time now required.
Best advice for any new squid on the block like me is hunt around the web when warping it gets you loads of useful tidbits & gives you something to do until you've managed to get a better ship/mining lasers/weapons.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.04.28 15:28:00 -
[10]
more infos coming in compared to some month ago.
a very welcome change!
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.04.28 16:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rancid Mare
i would laugh if it wasnt so criminal.
unfortunatley it seems the whole of CCP and its IDS force do not consider Dev blogs or interaction with the community to be of high importance at all.
I consider communication with the community to be very important. However ISD isn't involved in the dev blogs. What kind of interaction is it that you want and that you don't feel you're getting?
Originally by: Rancid Mare
sometime IDS/CCP even give the impression its somehow rude and demeaining for the players to actualy ask them questions. (note your comment above smacks of this attitude)
My comment was meant as a joke, because I thought it was a funny thing StarWolfer wrote. There's no conspiracy or hidden agenda behind my post.
But how is CCP and ISD giving you the impression that we think it's rude and demeaning for players to ask questions?
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Styrmir
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Posted - 2004.04.28 16:50:00 -
[12]
The Eve Insider link to the left is the "single" link you are looking for?
Founder and Manager of The Misneden Shuttle Museum |
Fret
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Posted - 2004.04.28 16:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kunming
Yes, more info of whats going on is more than welcome; BUT most of the older players and ex-betas are used to the secretive ways CCP follows (anyone remember the NDA?)...
It seems like CCP wants to keep a generel picture for everyone to see, but also make the players happy by suprising them!
I remember these times...and I think it's nice to "think" the devs do it on purpose to surprise us...ya...to surprise us...*cough*lazy*cough* 
NDA's are fun 
Fret
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.04.28 19:02:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I consider communication with the community to be very important. However ISD isn't involved in the dev blogs. What kind of interaction is it that you want and that you don't feel you're getting?
Ok props to you for asking, as this is a good good thing.
I can only really speaks for myself and this is the first mmorpg thingy i have ever played, so itÆs all a bit new to me.
Having said that i have been playing almost from release and it strikes me that these mmorpg thingyÆs are unlike any other games you might play, in that itÆs a community-based game.
If I recall only recently a senior CCP person had an interview and he was asked something like
"What makes eve so great"
And his reply was along the lines of
"Its the community that makes it great"
With this in mind, I personally feel that the current level of interaction between the community and CCP is sorely lacking and has a genuine negative effect on the game as a whole.
As taken from a comment on one of the dev blog
Quote:
feed us with info and not left in the dark and only the ignorant will complain ;)
I think that rather sums it nicely.
Being a team leader for IDS you are better able than most to judge the posts on this forum where people are *****ing and moaning.
I would hazard a guess to say a large percentage of these *****ing posts are based out of frustration at the lack of two-way info that isnÆt happening.
This lack of info also leads to conjecture and people posting hearsay as factual data (ref the whole tech2 lottery) which in turn only leads to more *****ing and moaning flaming trolling arguing *****ing moaning flaming etc and so on and so forth. Till IDS spend half their waking day deleting it all again.
When you ask
Quote:
What kind of interaction is it that you want and that you don't feel you're getting?
Here are some suggestions for things I think would be most appreciated and beneficial to the game.
Forum participation
I think it would make the world of difference if CCP had an employee whose main task it would be is to participate in the forum.
This person would have the time (the devs donÆt have) and the position within CCP (that IDS doesnÆt have) to participate in forum threads, answering questions, culling hearsay, replying to peoples many ideas and suggestions.
PROVIDING ACURATE INFORMATION QUICKLY
Generally giving the feeling that people are not wasting their time posting in the forums when they cant seem to get any response from anyone other than fellow players.
Which leads to frustration...hearsay...arguments and much locking/trolling emails.
a fine example of were a person of this nature would have been very helpfull is the Tech2 RD agent lottery situation.
This was where a post stated that lottery was bugged.
It was allowed to fest for some time in the hands of the players, whipping up a right old storm.
Causing many agent runners to have hart attacks.
With the lack of any CCP participation and only players posts to go on, whatÆs another player supposed to think ?
Project/Progress page
Somewhere which has information concerning items of particular interest.
IÆm sure many working players have managed the odd project or two. Sure some of them may even do it for a living.
CCP themselves are following a tried and tested project template are they not?
A page with little project charts showing the progress of subjects, which are of particular interest to the players at large.This would give clear and precise information on whatÆs going to be SOON tm and what is not.
You might for instance have a line showing lvl4 agent progress, this might show 3 main steps are required.
You can show were youÆre at currently, an estimated ETA.
And maybe a little snippet of information or anything relevant.
At the moment lvl4's are anywhere from days to weeks to a patch any day SOON tm?
I do appreciate this would require effort from CCP, but given the speed at which the games player base is growing. i think for a little effort and buy-in from CCP would go a long long way to improving the community/game as whole.
When you have a game of this size and this successful, with so many dedicated players. There comes a time when SOON tm really does not do justice to game or the community and definitely not to CCP.
IÆm sure many other people have suggestions to make (other than flaming me silly) which deserver buy in from CCP. But thatÆs where it seems to stumble.
As often pointed out this is not the job of the DevÆs and CCP do not really have access to this information. Whats needed is buy-in in from CCP in the form of time/effort spent informing and interacting with the community on a healthy daily basis.
At the end of the day better communication and interaction between CCP and the community can ONLY but improve the game.
On another note what happened to the CSM?
As they were as good as it got for interaction between
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
kieron
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Posted - 2004.04.29 07:56:00 -
[15]
Rancid, you are correct in stating that a MMOG community is comprised of the player base and the Devs. However, there are more forms of communication between the two parties than just the forums.
The Dev team maintains a nearly constant presence in IRC, especially #eve-chaos on the coldfront network. The Dev Blogs are being updated more frequently and just because the Devs do not respond to every hot issue on the forums does not mean that the forums are being ignored. Can communication on the forums be improved? Certainly, and constructive critisism or feedback can make a difference. I'll get with the staff that works primarily in IRC and try to get some cross communication worked out.
Your suggestion of a Project status page has merit and is something I'll bring up with the Devs. Perhaps it is something that can be used in conjunction with the Blogs.
The application CSM7 will be posted later today. There are some minor logistics to work out. A new format for the CSM has been decided upon and will be tried with the new session.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Reloaded INC
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Posted - 2004.04.29 10:39:00 -
[16]
well after reading this and being wooped by the almighty mod stick a few ours ago i think ill be a bit more "constructive" in my comments and try not to get so ****y at fecal matter that infests the irregularatorys i have been experincing
my apologies to the community
oh and if u are nice enuf i may just learn to type proparly even check 4 spelling and gramarr errors
** phew that was hard work **
I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.04.29 10:40:00 -
[17]
Hi Kerion.
thanks for getting stuck into this tread.
it is good to have ccp partiticpation on topics such as this. i hope your participation will continue for more than just the one post.
if i may make a reply or two to comments you have made.
Quote:
there are more forms of communication between the two parties than just the forums.
The Dev team maintains a nearly constant presence in IRC, especially #eve-chaos on the coldfront network.
whislt you cannot fault the Devs for participating in the IRC channel.
i would suggest that IRC is a limited method for interacting with the player base.
i would suggest a far greater % of the playerbase can be reached via the forums.
the reason for this is that many people will not even know what IRC is and many people may not be able to use IRC during working hours (firewall related), where as they will have full access to the forums.
so unless anyone can argue different i would say that the forums are the most efficient method for reaching the largest % of the playerbase.
hence this is why i feel CCP sould make far far greater efforts to participate in the forums.
the reason given (most of the time) for the lack of dev participation is that these people are just far to busy. but here you are saying that some of them spend considerable period of time with-in IRC.
Quote:
I'll get with the staff that works primarily in IRC and try to get some cross communication worked out.
sounds like a very good idea to me.
im sure the time spent in the forums whould benifit a far larger % of players than the same time spent in IRC.
on the same token i will see if i can get onto the IRC channel and them mabye i can ask some of the questions that are of current intterest and mabye even relay these back to the forum.
i will send in my application for participation in the CSM. i suggest you LOSE this email asap.
otherwise i might actualy get in, and im sure your Devs would not be to happy to have that happen.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Harmonic
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Posted - 2004.04.29 12:04:00 -
[18]
Perhaps some people who troll these forums should consider that there is a HUGE amount of work that goes into the running of Eve. Therefore the development team may be a little too busy trying to fix bugs/ answer the 1300 petitions/ test and update the server to answer some of your stupid questions! Perhaps you should spend more time playing the game and less time whining at the people who are doing there best to keep everyone happy!!!
CCP / ISD / Polaris you are doing a great job in my opinion! keep it up
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.04.29 12:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Harmonic
Perhaps some people who troll these forums should consider that there is a HUGE amount of work that goes into the running of Eve. Therefore the development team may be a little too busy trying to fix bugs/ answer the 1300 petitions/ test and update the server to answer some of your stupid questions! Perhaps you should spend more time playing the game and less time whining at the people who are doing there best to keep everyone happy!!!
CCP / ISD / Polaris you are doing a great job in my opinion! keep it up
please do explain why you need to state that im asking stupid questions.... as i feel you have no foundation what so ever for making such claims.
and your only reason for even posting in this tread is to casue trouble and get a bit of butt sucking in. both of which i find most disapointing and unsavory, considering the pivitol role of communication between CCP and the playerbase with in the game as a whole.
if you actualy have anything constructive to add please do so. but dont hijack what is a very important topic of disccussion just so you can show off.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
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Eight
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Posted - 2004.04.29 12:58:00 -
[20]
Well, since I've been thinking about what to say for the last 5 minutes, perhaps I should start by saying: It can often be very difficult to decide how to respond to each issue on the forums. Anything posted is usually picked apart ferociously, having the [=v=] under my name generally draws a great deal more attention and as such even more of a critical eye. This often makes what might seem like very simple posts rather time consuming.
The ratio of devs to players is roughly one to a thousand. It's simply not feasible to keep up on the volume of comments. I could very well spend my entire day dealing with the forums. Good threads like this one tend to stand out and get responses however.
There's a balance between keeping people informed about your work and actually getting your work done. There are weekly status meetings for each department for example, and people would be better kept up-to-date within each department if they were daily but you trade off productive working time for that.
As for time spent on IRC: Personally I'm on all the time (my quit message is actually, "I've either hit the wrong button or there's a software update, be right back in either case." or something like that), but very little of the time is it my main focus. I have it set to highlight on my name and just have a look whenever I notice it's been triggered.
Anyhow, hope that's a useful response.
~Eight |
Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.04.29 13:05:00 -
[21]
Kerion....
as suggested i have logged onto the IRC server.
however it has been pointed out the IRC is mainly for the discussion of Choas and Enthropy and on occasion serious bugs on the live server.
it is not the best place to ask general questions concerning progress or for updates on topics that many people feel are of importance.
so this leads us back to the situation where people have many important questions and the only real place to air them is on the forum.
with the lack of official participation it leads to the issues i listed in my original post.
such as conjecture/hearsay/misleading information and MUCH MUCH MUCH frustration.
which im sure we all agree is not a good situation for anyone.
even if some people insist on arguing that better communication is a bad thing....
if someone whould care to explain how better communication is a BAD thing id really really love to know
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
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Yuvjeni Mijailkov
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Posted - 2004.04.29 13:08:00 -
[22]
I think the whole point is:  INFORMATION.-
That's all I (We, I think) want or need.
I do understand the DT probs, the patch probs, crashes, etc.
But the point is to have some feedback, some info telling us what's going on.
That's why I do like this new Dev Blogs "politics" and I really hope we get them more frequently.
Shiva is a good example. I don't mind if it is delayed or how many problems we might have when released. What I'd like to have is a Dev Blog with info about possible dates, what's new (besides those deployable structures), if it is on time or not, etc.
Info is the point imo.
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.04.29 14:00:00 -
[23]
Eight... cheers for your ideas on this topic.
it is appriciated when a Dev does take the time to add their comments to a topic.
Quote:
There's a balance between keeping people informed about your work and actually getting your work done
im sure we all agree that a Devs time is far better spent actualy working on fixing bugs or upcomming features and to exspect a Dev to spend all day smurfing the forums is an unreasonable request to make.
i know at times it might seem that this is whats being aksed for..but i think deep down people know this to be un-feasable.
what people really want is the chance to ask relevant questions and be able to recive acurate and uptodate information. it dosnt matter if its a dev or IDS or a webpage with the details.
as long as they are up todate and above all acurate.
there can be no argument that there is a clear requirment for better exchange of information.
there can also be no argument that a better exchange of information, whould be of great benifit to the communinty and the game as a whole.
how CCP and the community go about this is another discussion all together.
mabye i will refrain from my weekly "were the hell are the lvl4 agents"
in the hope that a better and improved era in communication between all parties will provide this data and also anser the questions on many peoples lips.
as much as people can troll and flame, i personaly think that deep down we all know what a difficult job it is that you devs have.
i think mabye peoples frustration gets the better of them on occasion.
im sure the same happens to the devs from time to time, who MUST get frustrated at the continual requests for information.
Kerion....
can we keep the momentum going and see if something tangeable can come of this discussion ?
if you need extra manpower, im avalible at a reasonable cost.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.04.29 14:04:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Shiva is a good example. I don't mind if it is delayed or how many problems we might have when released. What I'd like to have is a Dev Blog with info about possible dates, what's new (besides those deployable structures), if it is on time or not, etc.
Info is the point imo.
have to agree whole hartedly.
its not the fact there is no shiva
its the confusion at not knowing whats going on.
last i heard Shiva was planned for May... which is like a week from now.
but again this is only hearsay and that the problem...too much hearsay and not enuf concise information.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.04.30 15:47:00 -
[25]
Weekly meeting notes should have a locked forum or even be posted in a section of Eve insider.
There could be a mod controlled Chat Channel ingame once a month on Sunday at 14:00 game time.
There could be priority ratings in the bug issue forum.
There could be a monthly patch release Calendar.
There could be a system history log. With petiton by category and the priority.
There could be also more player interaction on the forums. Allow players to rank other players and CCP people with stars for thier remarks.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.05.04 10:24:00 -
[26]
good to see this thread was left to die on its arse.
shame....and there was me thinking we were making some progress....
can it be that only a week after a decent discussion about the exchange of information that we back to normal allready ?
Kieron ?
did anything come of this discussion ?
or like Shiva and Lvl4's are we (the players)in no position to ask ?
i cant put it in any clearer terms.
YOU NEED TO SPEAK WITH US.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
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