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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.05.12 10:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: Serafini 2. Why if you pull your drones inside is it a lot harder to scan you down?
Drones are treated as extra things to scan for. So if he has a 10% chance of scanning you, and a 5% chance of scanning each drone (made up numbers) then he has a 10%, 5%, 5%, 5%, 5%, and 5% of finding something where you are. With the magic of probabilities, that's not 35%, but it's better than just 10%.
As I know scanning chance depend on (sensor strength)/(signature radius). So real numbers will be close to 1% for your ship and 10% for each drone because drones have very low sensor strength and huge sig radius at mwd.
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Karentaki
Gallente Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2008.05.12 22:14:00 -
[32]
the chances of somebody successfully scanning you down in a mission in lowsec are minimal as long as you stay out of the main pirate hubs like rancer, OMS, etc. If you've ever tried to scan down a single mission runner, you will realise it is almost impossible unless you get VERY lucky. If they use drones it becomes a bit easier, but it is still very difficult. Add to this the fact that most pirates do not fit probe launchers as standard, and you will very rarely actually have anyone even try to probe you. The only exception to this rule is NON-DEADSPACE missions. DO NOT DO THESE IN LOWSEC!
If you are paranoid (and in lowsec you should be) set your directional scanner to look for everything, and periodically scan at max range, 360*. Any probes can be seen on this list, and if the lowsec is quiet it shouldn't be too hard to spot them. If you see probes, pull in all your drones, and align to warp out. If you follow these instructions you will NEVER die in lowsec, except possibly to a gatecamp. Because of this risk, I suggest scouting each gate to your mission in a shuttle before jumping, and try to only mission in quiet lowsec.
I have spent quite a bit of time pirating in lowsec, so I know what I'm talking about. Whether you choose to trust me or not is up to you however.
========== This is a signature, a cunning ploy used by forum warriors! |
CrestoftheStars
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.05.13 03:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Zo5o In b4 subject-related dirty joke.
I think the rate of getting blown in .4 and below is pretty damn low, considering this is an internet spaceship game.
naa it depends on if your gf is home or not, if she is chances are quite good, if she's not emmm you better hope to god that she don't come home if you are about to get one XD hehe ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Gaia Thorn
Crabbs Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 13:00:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Gaia Thorn on 13/05/2008 13:10:31 Im sorry but scanning out mission runners are dead easy.
If u are really effective you use recon probes first scan him down below 5 au, then refit with quest probe and do another scan that i promise you will give me a 0 accuracy to the target.
Being probed is easy so dont think anything else. The problem with lowsec on the other hand is the first jump into it, the gate camp is the thing that will get you.
And heres another tip for you if you are using a alt to scout first check local if u have a high number of flashy cut throats dont jump in they most likely sitting in a safespot waiting for you or if u spend more then 1 minute in local u are doing something and they will find you.
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.05.13 13:39:00 -
[35]
With the right preparation, probing a mission runner is hilariously easy.
The problem is that that "right preparation" involves dozens to hundreds of BMs, to enable you to get within 4 AU (and preferably 2 AU) of any mission runner in seconds. After that, drop Quest/Pursuit etc and wait a couple of minutes.
I have hundreds of BMs in my favourite lowsec mission systems.
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Jbobj
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.13 14:41:00 -
[36]
I've been running Level 3 missions for a little while in a low pop system. I haven't been probed out yet, but I've ran into pirates around the stations a bit. Around the stations, single pirates didn't have the firepower to kill my BC before I could redock, but I did lose a Salvager Destroyer when I got a bit careless.
It's not that much more money then high sec missions, but heh, it makes it a bit more exciting I guess. I may not feel the same way when I move up to BS and Level 4's though, as those aren't as easy to replace I suppose.
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Exlegion
New Light Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:07:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Exlegion on 13/05/2008 16:11:38
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Probing down someone in a deadspace is 100x harder than in normal space.
Use the directional scanner as has been stated before. Max range, turn off use overview settings.
If you see "Scan probe", be wary. If it's "Spook Scanner Probe", "Ferret Scanner Probe" or something like that...pull in your drones, set your scanner to 500,000 km. He will have a ***** of a time probing you out without your drones out. If he shows up on scan at 500K KM, he's gotten to the acceleration gate, get the **** out ASAP. However, he might stick around, so you might have to wait awhile to continue the mission. Some people opt to retreat at the first sign of a probe in the system. You'll be interrupted more, but it means once the pirates leave you will be able to very safely go back to it.
If you see "X Quest Probe" (where X is Radar, Ladar, Magnetometric, or Gravimetric), be very wary. Quest probes, (IF they correspond to your ship's sensor strength (Magnetometric for gallente, for example), are very easily able to probe you down. The plus side is that it will take him quite awhile to run one scan cycle. However, he can still probe you down with a probe that doesn't correspond to your sensor strength.
If you see quest probes on scan, set your scanner to 600,000,000 km and scan. If you still see it, he's in range. Time to GTFO.
If you see quest probes in the system that aren't within 4 AU, ignore them.
Other than the opening line this is pretty decent advice right here.
But only about 20 people will read it .
No, it's not that only 20 people will read it. It's that you're only telling half the story. This is how I can tell who has run missions in low sec and who hasn't.
The above will work like a charm... IF (and only if) your deadspace mission happens to spawn far from anything and everything in the system. Good luck with that.
In reality you're stuck reading through heaps and heaps of crap every 30 seconds or so. Depending on where your mission is you'll spend more time reading through scanning results than actually enjoying the mission itself. And the more wrecks you create the worse it gets. All it takes is one hostile neutral or red to be in system to have you spam the scan button every 30 seconds and read each and every result looking for a probe signal. Or you can choose to dock. But that's even less productive and inefficient. THIS is what it's really like running missions in low sec. It's not as easy as pirates would like for you to think.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:33:00 -
[38]
If you're spamming the scan button every 30 seconds even when there's just one other person in Local, no wonder you think losec missioning is so hard.
It certainly can be really hard, and I don't think the rewards justify the dangers from a pure economic standpoint, but you're making it much worse than it is.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Exlegion
New Light Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:49:00 -
[39]
You can always take a chance and skip a scan. And it won't be anyone's fault but your own when you're caught. I'm not this precautious because I'm paranoid. I'm like this because of my past experiences in low sec. And I KNOW it can happen on that one time I decide to get laxed. It's happened to me already.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.13 17:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Exlegion I'm not this precautious because I'm paranoid.
Sure, the more likely explanation is that you don't understand scanning or mission busting very well. You're not accounting for actual plausible scan times, or how long it takes to warp and then jump through an acceleration gate. You're also not accounting for the fact that you shouldn't have anything to fear from a single CovOps. And if a CovOps isn't involved, you're dealing with longer scans and/or the time it takes to change ships.
I guess I'm being a little nitpicky, because I do think the basic point about losec missions being uneconomical is solid. And usually you're not dealing with just one other person in Local, and while I don't find using my directional scanner to find probes to be that unpleasant, it isn't the height of fun either.
It just bothered me that you accused other people of only telling the parts of the story that suited their agenda, when your post wasn't the pinnacle of accuracy itself. Kahega's analysis isn't complete, but it's very good. He doesn't say anywhere in it that mission running in losec is safe, nor should he. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Exlegion
New Light Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 18:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Exlegion I'm not this precautious because I'm paranoid.
Sure, the more likely explanation is that you don't understand scanning or mission busting very well. You're not accounting for actual plausible scan times, or how long it takes to warp and then jump through an acceleration gate. You're also not accounting for the fact that you shouldn't have anything to fear from a single CovOps. And if a CovOps isn't involved, you're dealing with longer scans and/or the time it takes to change ships.
I guess I'm being a little nitpicky, because I do think the basic point about losec missions being uneconomical is solid. And usually you're not dealing with just one other person in Local, and while I don't find using my directional scanner to find probes to be that unpleasant, it isn't the height of fun either.
It just bothered me that you accused other people of only telling the parts of the story that suited their agenda, when your post wasn't the pinnacle of accuracy itself. Kahega's analysis isn't complete, but it's very good. He doesn't say anywhere in it that mission running in losec is safe, nor should he.
It's not the cov-ops ship in my system that I fear. It's his buddies on the other side of the gate. Come on now, you know this. And since you think I'm 'overkilling' when scanning, what do you think is a reasonable scan frequency on a typical low sec mission system? My comment was to emphasize it is not as easy as just scan-and-go. My point is that having to scan and scan through loads of crap (depending on the system location) is quite agonizing, personally.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.13 23:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Exlegion
It's not the cov-ops ship in my system that I fear. It's his buddies on the other side of the gate.
YES! Which is exactly what I'm saying. A solo CovOps isn't going to kill you without bringing in help, which gives you more time. If it's a Force Recon, the scans take twice as long. If it's a gaggle of gankers, you'll have local to warn you in a quiet system.
Quote: And since you think I'm 'overkilling' when scanning, what do you think is a reasonable scan frequency on a typical low sec mission system?
With one potential prober, one minute is very paranoid (Basically that's the "max scan skilled and implanted Force Recon using Snoops who gets really lucky and gets a good hit on the first try but still has the lock time, DPS, and EW to kill you because you're not aligned and/or already warpscrambled and having your tank beat up by NPCs" scenario.) Two minutes is more reasonable. But really you have longer than that in a low traffic system, because you'll be looking out not only for probes, but also for his buddies to show up in local.
Quote: My comment was to emphasize it is not as easy as just scan-and-go. My point is that having to scan and scan through loads of crap (depending on the system location) is quite agonizing, personally.
And that's perfectly understandable. It's particularly difficult in systems that have even moderate traffic. (Though if you weren't doing it already, the best way to catch scan probes with the least amount of pain is to sort the directional scanner by name and in reverse order.)
Quote: In my experience you can't let your guard down even for 30 seconds because that's enough time to get raped in low sec. Now you can downplay it all you want. Send your targets on their merry way to low sec. When they come back to the forums and ask what they did wrong THEN and ONLY THEN will you tell them "Well, you shouldn't have let your guard down. It's your own fault".
30 seconds is plenty long enough to get ganked on a mission in a quiet system if you weren't paying attention the previous few minutes.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Exlegion
New Light Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 01:07:00 -
[43]
Thanks for the kind response. I'll be taking a closer look and revising my scan frequencies. If you're correct, it will definitely be a sigh of relief, in the sense that I can actually take a few seconds of relaxation while missioning and not have to keep such a paranoid eye on my scanner. A minute and a half is definitely a big difference from 30 seconds. Thanks for the helpful tips.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.14 01:33:00 -
[44]
Well don't "relax". Or I really will feel bad when you do get ganked.
Anyway, cheers. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Quina
Caldari Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.14 21:19:00 -
[45]
One thing to remember is that the nano ships most pirates will be flying are useless in deadspace. Means you have to have an AB fitted to get anywhere. If you have a whole pirate gang in AB's, chances are they can be caught and killed easily on a gate before they cause mission runners any trouble.
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marie blueprint
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Posted - 2008.05.15 12:20:00 -
[46]
ok last time: stay out of low sec. never and i mean never go below .6 space.watch local stay lined up for warp as often as possible.don't shoot at flashy red just run.if every single player in eve moves to empire ccp might start listening to us.
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.05.15 13:48:00 -
[47]
Quote: One thing to remember is that the nano ships most pirates will be flying are useless in deadspace. Means you have to have an AB fitted to get anywhere. If you have a whole pirate gang in AB's, chances are they can be caught and killed easily on a gate before they cause mission runners any trouble.
Most pirates don't fly nanoships. This is lowsec, not crappy 0.0.
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Calvin Okone
Gallente Opus Imperium Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.05.15 16:34:00 -
[48]
I've been killed once in low-sec but I don't think is was in a mission. I think it was a dead space complex. I waited far too long before I bugged out, and 3 cruisers quickly NOSed me to death. Generally when I was running missions out of a .3 system the danger was in the gatecamps. Usually they would target you (but not shoot) on one side, wait for you to jump to the other side, then follow you and beat you down. If I had waited until they shot me I could have slipped through the gate while they would have had to wait. Live and learn. |
Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.05.15 18:20:00 -
[49]
I've been doing level 3 missions in systems that are 0.2 - 0.4 security status, and both are pretty quiet for the most part. But so far it really doesn't seem to be worth it considering the few people who do show up tend to be quite dangerous, so I'm preparing to move to a new agent (a better one) in a more secure area. The pay may be slightly better in 0.2, but it's not that much better. In addition, the economy isn't very good here, so it makes selling stuff a lot more time consuming and less profitable.
In short, the small amount of extra pay isn't worth the extra risk. If it were worth the risk, I would be more than happy to stay in 0.2 or even move to 0.0 and battle it out to make a profit. But as it is, it's just unnecessary risk and grief which isn't made up for by a paltry increase in reward money.
But I should say, this is just my experience in this one small area. It could be very different in another region.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.16 13:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: marie blueprint ok last time: stay out of low sec. never and i mean never go below .6 space.watch local stay lined up for warp as often as possible.don't shoot at flashy red just run.if every single player in eve moves to empire ccp might start listening to us.
Who is this "us", and why should CCP listen to people that think .5 is low sec?
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Somerled MacDhommal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.16 14:42:00 -
[51]
The question is not if you are paranoid in lowsec.
The question is, are you paranoid enough.
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banton
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Posted - 2008.05.17 16:44:00 -
[52]
This is disturbing on many levels, first the whole point on dead space way back when, was to provide a secure place to do your mission without other camping and killing your objective so you could not complete the mission.
But I guess CCP now looks at it as another pvp event.
I guess we should not explore either because we can just wait until someone else does it for us and find them.
This is sad that the game is being twisted to this end.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:30:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 18/05/2008 01:31:46
Originally by: banton This is disturbing on many levels, first the whole point on dead space way back when, was to provide a secure place to do your mission without other camping and killing your objective so you could not complete the mission.
I think you misunderstand the point of the deadspace system, since probing ships in missions has always been possible. It happened relatively rarely before Kali because probing was both more complicated, and more flawed than now. (Ships that were off-plane were often impossible to find, whether in a deadspace or not.) Also, camping in the normal sense isn't possible, because the mission can't be scanned for directly. The only way camping can happen there is if a target is scanned down, leaves, and then comes back. And I think that sums up the deadspace approach and purpose. It isn't meant to prevent player conflict, but just to put up some hurdles.
For an example of a different way of doing it that has even fewer barriers to player conflict, look at the the low level complexes and Cosmos sites. These are "public" since they appear on the overview and don't move around. For a sort of hybrid model, see Exploration and Anomaly sites. These are "public" too, but you have to do something extra in order to track them down, nor do they stay in one place.
Quote: I guess we should not explore either because we can just wait until someone else does it for us and find them.
Sure you could do that, but it wouldn't normally be anywhere near as efficient an isk maker as scanning the sites yourself.
Quote: This is sad that the game is being twisted to this end.
Well, I don't think anything intrinsic has changed even if some details have. And I'd consider the details to be not so much "twisted" as "fixed". In this regard, the designers' vision of the game has been very consistent: nowhere in space is completely safe. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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