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cormaline
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Posted - 2008.05.08 23:01:00 -
[1]
1) Does the number of runs on the bpc I use as an input affect the number of runs on the invented bpc, or is that only driven by the decryptor that I use?
2) How much does not using any t1 item as an input affect my chance of success? The issue being that it would be a helluva lot cheaper to invent t2 BS's or other large ships if the effect is small.
3) Do my skill level affect my chances of success, or only the use of an input item and a decryptor.
Thanks!
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Eyee
Caldari
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Star Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:20:00 -
[2]
First u might read this guide, lot of answers u will find here.
1) Do invention with max-run-bpc for better results and runtimes.
2) For modules always use a T1 item for better chance, if possible use best named stuff (Meta 4).
Never use T1 items when inventing ships, its not worth it, exception may be cheap ships like frigs and cruisers. Stick to decryptors only.
3) Yes, the higher your skills, the better the chance for success. But i heared ppl who trained all up to 5 complaining about getting worse results. Dont know. I have all on lv 4 and my results are ok for me.
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.09 02:39:00 -
[3]
1)a - In module invention, yes always, use max runs.
b - In ship invention, yes it affects it IF you are using a decryptor that adds runs, you get 1 more run by using a max run BPC.
2) The effect is small to non-existant for non-meta items.
3) Yes, again to a certain extent.
The things that make a difference to chance are base chance, decryptor, skills and meta modules
The things that make a difference to output runs are input BPC runs, the T2 production limit and decryptors (the ones that add runs).
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cormaline
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Posted - 2008.05.09 02:47:00 -
[4]
Thank you both very much for your help!
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Nashtak
Gallente
Neoteric War Syndicate
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 06:05:00 -
[5]
Why do we have to use max run bpc for modules but not for ships?
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 06:20:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Nashtak
Why do we have to use max run bpc for modules but not for ships?
The number of runs on the output is (inputruns/T1ProductionLimit) * (T2ProductionLimit/10) + decryptor runs.
So for modules :
Max Runs
300/300 * 100/10 = 10.
1 Run
1/300 * 100/10 = 1
So you lose 90% of the runs if you use a single run, etc.
For ships :
Max Runs:
15/15 * 10/10 = 1 Run
1 Run
1/15 * 10/10 = 0.066 Runs
But you always get a minimum of 1 run, so it doesn't make any difference.
Now with a decryptor
15/15 * 10/10 + 9 = 10 Runs
1/15 * 10/10 + 9 = 9.066 runs = 9 Runs
So you lose 10% of the runs, which might be worth using a less run BPC for if it's worth less etc.
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2008.05.11 14:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Nashtak
Why do we have to use max run bpc for modules but not for ships?
The number of runs on the output is (inputruns/T1ProductionLimit) * (T2ProductionLimit/10) + decryptor runs.
So for modules :
Max Runs
300/300 * 100/10 = 10.
1 Run
1/300 * 100/10 = 1
So you lose 90% of the runs if you use a single run, etc.
For ships :
Max Runs:
15/15 * 10/10 = 1 Run
1 Run
1/15 * 10/10 = 0.066 Runs
But you always get a minimum of 1 run, so it doesn't make any difference.
Now with a decryptor
15/15 * 10/10 + 9 = 10 Runs
1/15 * 10/10 + 9 = 9.066 runs = 9 Runs
So you lose 10% of the runs, which might be worth using a less run BPC for if it's worth less etc.
it would therefore seem reasonable that if you are using any decyptor that increases runs per copy, using max runs would be worth it right?
1/15 * 10/10+ 2= 2.066
where as
15/15 * 10/10 + 2 = 3
giving a 50% increase on your efficiency. So really only if you use high end copies hoping for high ME + PE (So frieghter CS and BS copies I guess?) yet minimal runs- than you would use 1 run copies.
The question is, what is more economical in the long run? lots of high ME low run copies or a few low ME High run copies?
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Ravenal
The Fated
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 15:45:00 -
[8]
meh, a simplified version of above.
number of runs on the bpc * 0.1 ... round up of course.
battleship bpc max runs are 10, meaning 10*0.1 = 1 and 1*0.1 (round up) = 1
flawed imo.
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.11 16:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ravenal
meh, a simplified version of above.
number of runs on the bpc * 0.1 ... round up of course.
battleship bpc max runs are 10, meaning 10*0.1 = 1 and 1*0.1 (round up) = 1
flawed imo.
It only rounds up when < 1, as 1 is the minumum, otherwise it always rounds down.
Frigate BPC max runs is 30 so using your formula it would be 30*0.1 = 3, which isn't the case it's 1 just the same, as it's 30/30 * 10/10 (T2 Frigate max runs is 10, but T1 frigate being 30). The formula I wrote also works for old BPCs that are > the max runs, so for old Expanded Cargohold BPCs 1000/300 * 100/10 = 33.3 runs, so you get a 33 run BPC when you should usually get a 10 run ;) Keeping in mind this is also capped at the T2 production limit. If you had a 10,000 run BPC (somehow) you would only get 100 runs not 333.
As for always using a max run BPC with a + runs decryptor, well it depends. How much are the datacores, how much is the BPC worth to you. Generally I find it worth it, but if your max run BPCs cost more than just doing an extra invention attempt, it probably won't be. It really does depend on the BPC cost for that, or the time taken to make them. Fortunately modules are quick as you really do need the max runs. For ships if you aren't using a decryptor then there's no need to throw away a max run BPC when you could use a 1 run.
Quote:
So really only if you use high end copies hoping for high ME + PE (So frieghter CS and BS copies I guess?) yet minimal runs- than you would use 1 run copies.
The input ME/PE doesn't make a difference on the output, only the decryptor does. The area where this is most prevalent is Jump Freighter invention, as there the isk lost in the higher wastage levels is often far more than the cost to produce a lower waste BPC instead. So you might save 700m producing a BPC that is 200m/run instead of 100m/run etc, due to the lack of wastage.
Smaller ships it makes less of a difference, modules it makes none. With the cost of decryptors these days you're probably only worth using them for cruiser and above, maybe BC and above. It really does come down to a calculation though, how much does it cost per run, how much does it then cost to produce per run. Then you just compare all the decryptor options and choose the one (or lack of one) with the lower total cost to fully produce the item.
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