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AmmoniaisNH3
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:49:00 -
[1]
assume fleets are equal in number and force
which one wins?
::fleet with least ships lost/most killed
::fleet that bails out first
happened to us today, lost a bait drake, but we ran them off our territory
it was 3 BC 2 cruiser (us) vs 2 BS and 2 BC (them)
opinions?
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Natasha Donnan
Caldari
Kaminjosvig
Mournival Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:52:00 -
[2]
Sounds like you won if that was your objective.
If theirs was to pop a ship then they also achieve an objective. So a bit of a score draw.
_________________________________________
The Girl with the really Starey eyes.
http://www.kaminjosvig.org/
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Naridos
Caldari
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:00:00 -
[3]
the way i look at it is, the first ones to gtfo are the ones disengaging making you the ones to win if it was a fair fight.
 Quote:
You Know you play too much Eve when you get into a car crash and you run away as fast as you can so that you don't get podded.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:03:00 -
[4]
whoever holds the field and loots.
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Siddy
Minmatar
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:40:00 -
[5]
Whoever desides to declear f-f-f-f-FICTORY on CAOD. And go ----> that way (away from delve) to other end of 0.0 to kill some pubs.
yeah, thats win for you right there!
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:48:00 -
[6]
They won... because you obviously don't use points/webs if two BS and BCs outran your 3 BCs and 2 cruisers. 
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Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster 
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The Icefox
Gallente
Under the Wings of Fury
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.05.10 09:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: techzer0
They won... because you obviously don't use points/webs if two BS and BCs outran your 3 BCs and 2 cruisers.
QFT.
However to clarify:
Victory can be easily determined by the following logical process.
Who departed the field first? (Preferably against their will)
If them put 1 point in the win category. If you put 1 point in the loss category.
Did they depart because they lost their ship and/or were podded?
If yes put 1 point in win. If no put 1 point in loss.
Did you destroy any of their assets?
If yes 1 point 1 if no 1 point loss.
Did you lose any material assets?
If yes 1 point loss if no 1 point win.
Who lost more? Determine total ISK value of assets destroyed. (Number of ships lost dosn't count if you lose your whole "fleet" but take down 10 times the isk value of your t1 frigate blob in the process you still win)
If your total is loss > than theirs 1 point loss, else 1 point win.
Total up your points if you have more win than loss points. Congrats you are the weenar! Otherwise go back to flight school.  And remember kids. There's no way to spell fair with the letters F I G H T. o/
Bored during down time? Try this. |
Lady Valory
Caldari
Caldari Strike Force
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:06:00 -
[8]
Also I think you have to ask what was the goal of the fleet...
Did the pos go into reinforced?
Did the freighter make it out?
Did they escort the pos fuel in?
Etc
In other words... What sort of losses are acceptable to accomplish the fleets goal.
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spanky herman
Gulfonodi Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:37:00 -
[9]
If you had fun - you won, victory is arbitrary and defined inividually, just have fun.
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AmmoniaisNH3
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Posted - 2008.05.10 14:15:00 -
[10]
We had one point, mine on my harbinger. Damn drakes can't tank with tackle :p
We broke the ravens tank and was about halfway in armour until he jumped through the gate.
the scout on the other side said they ran away :D
they even left a nanocane 200km from the field :x
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.10 14:46:00 -
[11]
sounds to me like you objectively lost. You lsot a ship, they lost nothing. They won.
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Violence isn't the answer, it is the question.
The answer is yes. |
Feilamya
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.05.10 15:06:00 -
[12]
You lost because you needed to create a forum thread for people to tell you what you were fighting for.
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.05.10 15:54:00 -
[13]
It's a bit a both tbh. But I would say that you lost because you didn't kill any of them.
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DutchGunner
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Posted - 2008.05.10 17:41:00 -
[14]
Ok basicly all the ppl that posted earlier are correct. Victory or defeat is all about perspective. You always get into a fight with a certain purpose. Just to give some examples:
You attack a gatecamp to break it up;
You get attacked, so you fight to not lose your ship;
You fight so others can escape (freighter, industrial, bigger ships/bigger gang;
etc.
Same goes for the other side of the fight. You can both claim victory because you both reached the goal you wanted to achieve when the fight started, or lose.
When it comes to fleet fights, there basicly are several generally accepted ways of measuring victory or defeat.
1) whoever held the field. Sure you can have lost more ships, but if you get all the loot and salvage, a large portion of your loss can be compensated
2) Whoever kills the most ships. Fleet fights are usually all about who has the less lag en kill as much as possible before your own losses start to climb
3) whoever inflicts the most damage in isk. Sure you can have lost 50 battleships, but if you in return killed several capital ships such as dreadnoughts, carriers, motherships or even a titan, you still came out better in terms of isk lost.
Hopefully this answered some of your questions. It's all about what you want and a win from 1 point of view can be a loss in another (isk v.s. ships for example)
DutchGunner
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Natalia Trade
Amarr Trading Company Inc
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Posted - 2008.05.10 18:21:00 -
[15]
They came in and killed your bait ship, then left laughing at your attempt to bait them.
Complete F. A. I. L.
Why ?
You lost your bait ship, they killed it, they have the killmail.
You failed to kill anything they had.
You failed to tackle them and keep them from running, thereby forcing them to fight.
You failed to think about setting up a tackle ship on the other side of the gate so when he jumped through you could still grab him.
You failed to stop shooting at him when he deaggessed so you could jump the gate with him and kill him the on other side.
You failed to plan ahead to prevent them from getting away, after they took your bait.
You failed to control the combat situation around you and make the decisions necessary to kill any of them.
Basicly they beat you horribly, made you look like amateur hour, and laughed all the way back home adding their killmail to their already bloated stats of epeen uberness.
But you can always learn from your mistakes and do better next time.
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Spacer X
Amarr
Xpress Yourself
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Posted - 2008.05.10 18:47:00 -
[16]
when the term "all your bases are belong to us" is a true statement
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m3rr
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Posted - 2008.05.10 22:17:00 -
[17]
you failed simply because you only fit one point out of your whole gang. that is pathetic
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AmmoniaisNH3
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Posted - 2008.05.10 22:57:00 -
[18]
><
we failed then :(
we had 1 point because it was late, few of us were on
well lesson learned, keep a tackler on the other side
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Khul Drukath
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2008.05.11 12:43:00 -
[19]
Unless there is a specific victory, I have always gone by isk. I've had to bail out of fights because we were getting overwhelmed, but had killed far more than we lost even after you factor in the other side getting all the loot.
On a side note it's surprising how many gangs consider the fight as being won and over when the enemy disengage. Quickly regrouping and striking back can gain a big advantage as the enemy are all in loot mode.
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Luke Lamarr
Infinitus Morti
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Luke Lamarr on 14/05/2008 18:20:09
EDIT: Thrown you in my sig :P
Originally by: The Icefox
And remember kids. There's no way to spell fair with the letters F I G H T.
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Samacia
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:34:00 -
[21]
You lost more ISK
You won Territory
They won a Drake Kill
They lost on 3-4 more possible kills
Perspective.
They best part is, you can all declare victory, thus keeping up moral ,,, whheeee! |
Faife
Noctiscion
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.14 22:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Faife on 14/05/2008 22:38:52
this is something i keep repeating:
Combat is meaningless until conditions for victory are defined.
if at any point you dont know what you're working towards, disengage, dock up, and get better FCs. since you don't even know if you were fighting for ISK, territory, or something else altogether, you lost by default.
figure out some long term goals, and then you can start asking yourself about how you're doing.
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Vim
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.15 00:12:00 -
[23]
You got them to retreat, you win if that was your goal.
Id say they made a tactical withdrawal, local spiking never bodes well. Was your two cruisers bychance blackbirds? If so their withdrawal even better of them.
Was this lowsec(assume it is), they took bait, they have sentryaggro? If so +points for withdrawing.
All in all, you lost I think, dont fight ppl on gates if you do not have the dps to kill them in a minute or have a tackler or three on the other side when the minute is up =)
Gl hf and kill them next time =)
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