EVE Search - Would security intrest you?

All Channels

Science and Industry

Would security intrest you?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:13:00 - [1] I have seen a post about a guy claiming that he can provide security in low sec for miners. the only problem was that he was one man and the possiblities of him protecting miners from low sec as a single person was called into question. I was wondering if there was a corp that could provide protection in low sec, how much would a mining corp be willing to pay for low sec protection. By protection I mean shipkill the pirate before he shipkills the miner. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:18:00 - [2] Edited by: Hanneshannes on 13/05/2008 19:19:52 Edited by: Hanneshannes on 13/05/2008 19:17:50 It's verly likely that that one person was out to lure miners out into a belt and then cap them himself. I'm pretty sure hiring a corp to do the protecting is possible but there needs to be some sort of trust or the amount of ISK needs to be right and for the amount of ISK to be right, you need a bunch of miners to make it worth it in the end. You also need to take some things into account, like the protection losing sec status unless they let the pirate fire first (which usually results in the death of a mining ship).
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:22:00 - [3] Originally by: Hanneshannes Edited by: Hanneshannes on 13/05/2008 19:19:52 Edited by: Hanneshannes on 13/05/2008 19:17:50 It's verly likely that that one person was out to lure miners out into a belt and then cap them himself. I'm pretty sure hiring a corp to do the protecting is possible but there needs to be some sort of trust or the amount of ISK needs to be right and for the amount of ISK to be right, you need a bunch of miners to make it worth it in the end. You also need to take some things into account, like the protection losing sec status unless they let the pirate fire first (which usually results in the death of a mining ship). Right I agree. BUt if a corp was to go into business how much would a miner feel comfortable to pay for security? would they pay by ore m3 mined? hourly? buy the number of attacks? Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:30:00 - [4] You're essentially talking about small-scale mercenary work. It's generally best in these cases to charge a flat rate for a period of time as it is something over which there can be no legitimate disagreement between the two parties. The question I would ask however, is how much would you need to recieve in order to make the potential losses you may suffer worthwhile? I would be interested in hiring mercenaries for small scale exercises but I don't mine, so this particular example is not for me :)
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:32:00 - [5] I really wouldn't trust any corp providing security unless they had the members and organization to completely lock down a stargate, which is tricky in low-sec, and would probably be quite expensive to the mining corp renting their services. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Bad Bobby You're essentially talking about small-scale mercenary work. It's generally best in these cases to charge a flat rate for a period of time as it is something over which there can be no legitimate disagreement between the two parties. The question I would ask however, is how much would you need to recieve in order to make the potential losses you may suffer worthwhile? I would be interested in hiring mercenaries for small scale exercises but I don't mine, so this particular example is not for me :) Right, and that is why I wasn' t talking about mercenary work, But strictly on the subject on securing an area, how much would a merc charge? Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Pwett I really wouldn't trust any corp providing security unless they had the members and organization to completely lock down a stargate, which is tricky in low-sec, and would probably be quite expensive to the mining corp renting their services. Ok so for a gate camp how much would you pay? Would it make a difference if the guards could lock down a few belts and anti camp a station? and would it be better to pay by the hour? or by the amount of space secured for the hours? Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.05.13 20:26:00 - [8] Edited by: Pwett on 13/05/2008 20:26:06 Heck I couldn't even imagine how much a "water-tight" gate camp would cost. For the number of people it would take, probably easily on the order of 20-30 mil per gate per hour, plus any possible ship costs. Then you have to remember how utterly boring it is to sit on a damn gate for hours on end; without being able to use bubbles. Man, it boggles the mind. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
MentaFox StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.13 22:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Janus Cohen Would security intrest you? No ----------------------
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.13 23:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Pwett Edited by: Pwett on 13/05/2008 20:26:06 Heck I couldn't even imagine how much a "water-tight" gate camp would cost. For the number of people it would take, probably easily on the order of 20-30 mil per gate per hour, plus any possible ship costs. Then you have to remember how utterly boring it is to sit on a damn gate for hours on end; without being able to use bubbles. Man, it boggles the mind. Doubtful. I think you are thinking too over the top. Some low sec/0.0 sec areas dont get travelers for hours on end. and it wouldn't take a bubble to camp a gate any low sec gatecamper could tell you that. As far as cost of ships, any good security company would have insurance. I want to know from miners and miner corps how much they would pay and how they would pay for security? Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Alex Redwidth	Posted - 2008.05.14 03:28:00 - [11] Edited by: Alex Redwidth on 14/05/2008 03:28:12 Depends on the 'guarantee' .. if the merc corp would be willing to have replaced equipment deducted from their fee at a rate of 50% (both parties sharing the cost) then I'd be interested. The problem comes from the fact low sec mining has such poor hourly rate. Given one can mine in high-sec for more ISK, there's not much incentive to mine in low sec even with protection. If it were 0.0 we were talking about, given the increased earnings, I'd be willing to haggle around 60mil a week.
Janus Cohen Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.27 17:50:00 - [12] OK so I took some of the post opinions and I came up with this. 1. Losses should be deducted from the fees. 2. There should be a charge by the hour according to the amount of mining/ industrialist working. 3. Security forces are to always have insurance and spare ships in system. Poster should make alterations if there are some things they think should be added or removed from the list. I have been floating aroiund high sec., and I have wondered,since there are so many high sec wars going on, if therre would be a need for high sec protection? I think the industrial corp would need some kind of combat force already, so the security guards could get kill rights from their fellow gangmates. Anyways all on topic responses would be welcomed. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
shady trader	Posted - 2008.05.27 18:12:00 - [13] The only addition I can see is Logistics ships and heavy interdictors. Asumming that the miners have some tank so they are hard to pop in one go. Logistic ships (pre locked onto miner's ships) to help them stay alive till the bad guys are dead or they are in warp possible combat ships with webbers to allow warp out quicker. Possibly heavy interdictors to discurage capital ships being used. You would probobly also need a neutral person or group to hold the funds (pay up front and till the completion of the contract, Day?). A agreed kill board so that the miners can post their losses so the neutral party can agree the losses. The neutral then pays the defender's corp based on the agreed terms. The neutral person who be a broker/fixer making the arangemets. Is possible but will require a trusted person and probobly an exteral website or two (one for kill board and one for contract) sort of like the merceny review board and hiring hall in battletech. The only other way is sort of like the old alliance that built the chain of neutral outposts. they provide securty to the region and have non agression pack's with the other alliances (after all it secures their path to hi sec as well). You play a fee (per player or corp) and you set as blue. If you loss your ship you get compensation via kill board. However if they catch your ship in a belt unattended your contact is vold/ reduced to salvage parts. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
Janus Cohen Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.27 18:32:00 - [14] Originally by: shady trader The only addition I can see is Logistics ships and heavy interdictors. Asumming that the miners have some tank so they are hard to pop in one go. Logistic ships (pre locked onto miner's ships) to help them stay alive till the bad guys are dead or they are in warp possible combat ships with webbers to allow warp out quicker. Possibly heavy interdictors to discurage capital ships being used. You would probobly also need a neutral person or group to hold the funds (pay up front and till the completion of the contract, Day?). A agreed kill board so that the miners can post their losses so the neutral party can agree the losses. The neutral then pays the defender's corp based on the agreed terms. The neutral person who be a broker/fixer making the arangemets. Is possible but will require a trusted person and probobly an exteral website or two (one for kill board and one for contract) sort of like the merceny review board and hiring hall in battletech. The only other way is sort of like the old alliance that built the chain of neutral outposts. they provide securty to the region and have non agression pack's with the other alliances (after all it secures their path to hi sec as well). You play a fee (per player or corp) and you set as blue. If you loss your ship you get compensation via kill board. However if they catch your ship in a belt unattended your contact is vold/ reduced to salvage parts. Good idea with the use of logistics ships. I think that would prevent loss. I have not seen many capital ships in low sec regions, although they would pose a problem. But how many corps are carving out sections of low sec space, and how could I advertise a section of low sec without drawing too mmuch attention to the area? Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.05.27 18:43:00 - [15] The best 1 guy can do is act as a forward scout of approaching hostiles so you have time to get safe. If someone's coming to gank you it's usually as part of a gang (there are some solo gankers around, but they're the exception to the rule).
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.27 19:04:00 - [16] Remember this simple rule: If you need protection from another corp to be in low sec then you shouldn't be in there at all in the first place. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EVE Database, Character Generator & more
Janus Cohen Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.27 19:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Braaage Remember this simple rule: If you need protection from another corp to be in low sec then you shouldn't be in there at all in the first place. Well I am not providing/ or planning to provide static occupation of any low sec system. and there are plenty of corps in 0.0 sec who have no business there either. I am attempting to make things more competitive for players, and grant some people some oppourtunity to do some low sec mining and still retain authourity of their corp. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
IVeige	Posted - 2008.05.27 20:28:00 - [18] instead of going in low sec, just pay or rent a system control by a big alliance. You will do way more money than in low sec. A simple pilot cannot protect a mining operation alone, no way. And miners wont trust one guy at all. You need players to lock down every gates, and an other group staying with the miners too. Some pilots protecting the haulers. So 0.0 might be better than low sec for this kind of stuff.
Ritzenhoff Fabian Strategy	Posted - 2008.05.27 22:48:00 - [19] Originally by: IVeige instead of going in low sec, just pay or rent a system control by a big alliance. You will do way more money than in low sec. ..... So 0.0 might be better than low sec for this kind of stuff. QFT. I think this is the reason no-one does this, although I applaud the entreprenurial initiative of the OP.
Janus Cohen Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:04:00 - [20] Ok so how much would you charge for 0.0 sec? an hour? Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:47:00 - [21] Well, you'd have to have a mercenary group with at least 3-5 people to provide any sort of security, and that is assuming you are mining in tanked hulks that won't pop too fast. Regardless, short of completely locking down a system, there will always be a group of pirates who will have more people than the mercs do. Depending on the size of the op, it's only a matter of time until they build a group large enough to kill you. It would probably be suicide in 0.0 that's not your space, and it would be a bad idea in low sec unless it were sparsely populated (read: doesn't have stations).
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.05.28 17:56:00 - [22] In 0.0 you'd typically charge a monthly rent + % of refines in your outposts. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Janus Cohen Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.28 19:35:00 - [23] Ok so I am thinking 5 ships 1 Battleship 1 Support/Logistics 2 Battlecruisers 1 frig sized tackler supporting 3 retrievers same belt for a cost of 3 million isk per barge an hour. An additional 3 million isk per retriever. If the op is crashed by pirates then Security corp is liable for losses, but amount will be prorated. Feel free to lend feedback. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Gridwalker	Posted - 2008.05.29 01:00:00 - [24] The problem is, it really isn't worth mining low sec regardless of the level of protection. Many low sec ores simply aren't worth as much as Plagioclase or Veldspar anymore. Even the ones that are worth more, the increased value is marginal. This is especially true when calculating in the logistics of getting the ore where you want it when you are done. Any sort of payment is going to completely wipe out any profits that might exist, and they payments likely won't be enough to make it worthwhile to the protecting corporation. I mean, what would you rather do? Watch miners mine for eight hours for 3m isk/hour, or do, well, ANYTHING else? You'll make more spending 10 minutes running a level 4 mission. Just my opinion, but I think it is probably a pretty accurate assessment. Now, what would an industrial corp pay for protection of a moon mining POS? There might be some good isk in that! Protecting miners, however, not so much... -Grid
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.05.29 02:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Gridwalker The problem is, it really isn't worth mining low sec regardless of the level of protection. Many low sec ores simply aren't worth as much as Plagioclase or Veldspar anymore. Even the ones that are worth more, the increased value is marginal. This is especially true when calculating in the logistics of getting the ore where you want it when you are done. Any sort of payment is going to completely wipe out any profits that might exist, and they payments likely won't be enough to make it worthwhile to the protecting corporation. I mean, what would you rather do? Watch miners mine for eight hours for 3m isk/hour, or do, well, ANYTHING else? You'll make more spending 10 minutes running a level 4 mission. Just my opinion, but I think it is probably a pretty accurate assessment. Now, what would an industrial corp pay for protection of a moon mining POS? There might be some good isk in that! Protecting miners, however, not so much... -Grid This tbh. Although, retrievers are an interesting point. If you were using hulks, you'd totally get suicide ganked- some people would just warp in in cruisers or BCs and gank the hulk- unless you have an absurd amount of protection, you will still die along with them. But yea, you'd have to pay a load for protection and it wouldn't be worth it and would be unlikely to even work that well.
Antarus Lars	Posted - 2008.05.29 10:09:00 - [26] Edited by: Antarus Lars on 29/05/2008 10:10:30 Ironcially the best security you can get is a pirate gate camp. Find out which systems are heavily camped by pirates, (some its literally 23/7), or at least close, or the home system of a local large & good pirate corp). Come to some kind of protection arrangment with the CEO. As it wudnt be any extra work for the pirates as they would be there anyway it would more that likly work out well. As a pirate would make say... erm... 15m from the loot of one of your corp ships... but then your corp would never go there. But if you paid them a flat fee of 100m a week say, they would just see you as free money earner... But as nothing gets into a well pirate camped system, you would have a totally locked down system, and belts which have probly never been mined. And trust me, a reputable pirate corp wudnt blow you up, as basically your paying a monthly ransom free, they rely on there reputation to make money. (note, you will also not be responsable for any of there ship losses) Note, they would also help you if you get attacked, not that they care about your miners at all, but they want more stuff to shoot/ransom always.
Aiden Bismuth Die Boeremag	Posted - 2008.05.29 11:38:00 - [27] After reading all the comments here, the one by Antarus Lars makes the most senses, basically find a pirate-infested system, and "rent" the asteroid belts from them. That's what I would look for as a mining corp., and be happy to accept as the pirate CEO. Of course, being criminals, there is not guarantee that they won't renege, and blow you away anyway, regardless of the "rent" or ransom. But that would be like the cliche about killing the goose that laid the golden egg. AB

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.