| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
   |
Posted - 2008.05.13 23:25:00 -
[1]
So I was toying around with the idea of a Torp Golem with an AB and a Shield Buffer (lots of extenders/2 PDS and 2 BCU) for DPS support. My concern tho is that it'd just get called primary every time (650 mil ship for PvP anyone? It's like taking a CNR out,, now there's an idea!)
Is it realistic to even consider a gank fit for this, or are the chances of being primary just way too good?
|
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 01:56:00 -
[2]
i think i'd go for ultra high resists w/ maybe some shield extender rigs. then do the remote rep thing w/ your gang.
if they primary you, they will probably waste a bunch of time and finally switch targets, bar a really big engagement
|
Erotic Irony
0bsession
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 02:03:00 -
[3]
How close can a cruise golem get to destroying a hac or recon versus a raven without the golem bonus?
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
|
ori16
Shinra
Shinra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 02:54:00 -
[4]
ROLF Tj killed 1 last week droped 6b in loot ******* was officer fit but anyway TBAGEd and also 3 of them missiles from that golam ate 40% of my vagas shields like nothing like 500+ a hit.and i had 2 t2 shield extenders.
ori16 |
Morthis Rygal
Gallente
Zero Potential
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 04:35:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Erotic Irony
cruise golem
Those two words should never go together. :p
|
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 04:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Morthis Rygal
Originally by: Erotic Irony
cruise golem
Those two words should never go together. :p
Indeed, even mission runners are loathe to accept the fact the Golem is built for torps, not cruise missiles.
Thing is, the Golem gets it's power from a target painter. That lights up any ship (cept maybe frigs) to wtfpwndamage. DPS on a cruise Golem is incredibly inferior to a torp Golem. As someone mentioned, you could *maybe* go for ultra-high resists, then I wouldn't be surprised if you could fit three Large shield reppers onto the remaining Hi's and spider tank pretty damn well. Maybe even passive shield resists to save cap with high compensation skills?
*jumps on EFT for a bit*
|
Ravenal
The Fated
Odyssey.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 05:41:00 -
[7]
ecm, primary golem.
. |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 05:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ravenal
ecm, primary golem.
Undoubtedly so, which is the main question. The AB could perhaps be dropped for ECCM, or other ships could do the painting and the ECCM gets chucked onto PWNAGE slot.
Regardless, any ship with a decent fitout will get primaried, what I'm worried about is the tank not being sufficient to hold being primaried.
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 06:55:00 -
[9]
Golem = useless pvp ship.
It is useles for spidertanking pvp as well.
1 Set of light ECM drones and you could probebly permajam the golem and obsolete spidertanking. Its very easy to break spidertanking anyway and the super low ECM strenth of Golem makes it even easier.
Dont try to reinvent the wheel people, mauraders are no good for pvp at all.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Commoner
Caldari
Emergent Chaos
Bedlam Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:41:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Commoner on 14/05/2008 11:41:05
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Golem = useless pvp ship.
It is useles for spidertanking pvp as well.
1 Set of light ECM drones and you could probebly permajam the golem and obsolete spidertanking. Its very easy to break spidertanking anyway and the super low ECM strenth of Golem makes it even easier.
Dont try to reinvent the wheel people, mauraders are no good for pvp at all.
I'd say it's better than the Raven for pvp, stick on an ECCM and you've got some sensor strength to play with, with better resists.
However, i agree with you that it isn't the most cost-effective pvp ship, but it'sa good ship. (Probably better to use a carrier, rougly same price).
The worst pvp'er in EVE :
|
vostok
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
deadspace society
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 14/05/2008 05:06:45
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 14/05/2008 04:58:16
Originally by: Morthis Rygal
Originally by: Erotic Irony
cruise golem
Those two words should never go together. :p
Indeed, even mission runners are loathe to accept the fact the Golem is built for torps, not cruise missiles.
Thing is, the Golem gets it's power from a target painter. That lights up any ship (cept maybe frigs) to wtfpwndamage. DPS on a cruise Golem is incredibly inferior to a torp Golem. As someone mentioned, you could *maybe* go for ultra-high resists, then I wouldn't be surprised if you could fit three Large shield reppers onto the remaining Hi's and spider tank pretty damn well. Maybe even passive shield resists to save cap with high compensation skills?
*jumps on EFT for a bit*
EDIT: So I cooked this up for kicks...
4 * Malkuth Siege Missiles
2 * Large Shield Transporter (best named)
2 * invuln field II
EM field
Large Shield Booster II
PWNAGE painter
Heavy Cap Injector
100mn AB
2 * BCU II
1 * RCU II
1 * PDS II
With faction ammo/T2 med drones, deals about 850 DPS.
Just for giggles...
EDIT: Erm, I mean RCU, not co-proc.
dude are you kidding? why the hell use malkuths when arbalests are 300k a piece, this is a 700 ******* mill ship this should be T2/faction all the way, second you need fitting mods on it?! This is my fitting for golem for missions:
2 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil II
2 x Shield Boost Amplifier II
1 x X-Large Shield Booster II
2 x Invulnerability Field II
2 x Cap Recharger II
4 x Siege Missile Launcher II, Inferno Javelin Torpedo
1 x Salvager I
2 x Small Tractor Beam I
2 x Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Hammerhead II x5
That puts out over 1000 dps in torps at up to 40km away using faction ammo
|
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:59:00 -
[12]
Quote:
dude are you kidding? why the hell use malkuths when arbalests are 300k a piece, this is a 700 ******* mill ship this should be T2/faction all the way, second you need fitting mods on it?! This is my fitting for golem for missions:
Yeah, brain fart on the malkuths there, I keep forgetting Heavy Missile Launchers are the only ones worth 12 mil :/
But,, well, I'm not trying to make a Golem for missions here 
I think this:
Quote:
However, i agree with you that it isn't the most cost-effective pvp ship, but it'sa good ship. (Probably better to use a carrier, rougly same price).
Hits the nail on the head.
But hmm,,, Golem for low-number hi-sec PvP maybe even,,,
|
Xin Wen
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 14:37:00 -
[13]
I just got a Golem yesterday and honestly hadn't thought about going the Seige route until I heard someone mention it in this thread. Anyway, I can currently hit in the high 900s for damage with normal cruise missles. So I am wondering what is the highest damage folks have seen with using seige missles. Thanks.
|
MrRookie
Interstellar Planetary
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 15:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xin Wen
I just got a Golem yesterday and honestly hadn't thought about going the Seige route until I heard someone mention it in this thread. Anyway, I can currently hit in the high 900s for damage with normal cruise missles. So I am wondering what is the highest damage folks have seen with using seige missles. Thanks.
I have the 5% rof implant and the 5% torp dmg implant and. Not sure about the total dps but it should be around 1100 not counting drones
Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 15:26:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:28:17
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 14/05/2008 05:06:45
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 14/05/2008 04:58:16
Originally by: Morthis Rygal
Originally by: Erotic Irony
cruise golem
Those two words should never go together. :p
Indeed, even mission runners are loathe to accept the fact the Golem is built for torps, not cruise missiles.
Thing is, the Golem gets it's power from a target painter. That lights up any ship (cept maybe frigs) to wtfpwndamage. DPS on a cruise Golem is incredibly inferior to a torp Golem. As someone mentioned, you could *maybe* go for ultra-high resists, then I wouldn't be surprised if you could fit three Large shield reppers onto the remaining Hi's and spider tank pretty damn well. Maybe even passive shield resists to save cap with high compensation skills?
*jumps on EFT for a bit*
EDIT: So I cooked this up for kicks...
4 * Malkuth Siege Missiles
2 * Large Shield Transporter (best named)
2 * invuln field II
EM field
Large Shield Booster II
PWNAGE painter
Heavy Cap Injector
100mn AB
2 * BCU II
1 * RCU II
1 * PDS II
With faction ammo/T2 med drones, deals about 850 DPS.
Just for giggles...
EDIT: Erm, I mean RCU, not co-proc.
dude are you kidding? why the hell use malkuths when arbalests are 300k a piece, this is a 700 ******* mill ship this should be T2/faction all the way, second you need fitting mods on it?! This is my fitting for golem for missions:
2 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil II
2 x Shield Boost Amplifier II
1 x X-Large Shield Booster II
2 x Invulnerability Field II
2 x Cap Recharger II
4 x Siege Missile Launcher II, Inferno Javelin Torpedo
1 x Salvager I
2 x Small Tractor Beam I
2 x Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Hammerhead II x5
That puts out over 1000 dps in torps at up to 40km away using faction ammo
Raven can do same but with much less isk and 1250 dps. And btw, the title says golem pvp, not golem pve, learn to read.
Originally by: Xin Wen
I just got a Golem yesterday and honestly hadn't thought about going the Seige route until I heard someone mention it in this thread. Anyway, I can currently hit in the high 900s for damage with normal cruise missles. So I am wondering what is the highest damage folks have seen with using seige missles. Thanks.
How much you hit is irrelevant, what is relevant is how much dps you got, which is ([damage full ignoring resists] x [ nr of missile launchers ])/ rof. Just as informing, CNR can do with cruise 640-650 DPS. And if defenders take out 1-2 of those cruise, you lose less overall dps than with the golem.
|
Xin Wen
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 15:35:00 -
[16]
So do you mean that the defenders can't be used on the Golem when using Seige missles? If that is the case, then that is definitely a better way to go. Also, I have no idea what my dps is. I just go by the top number I see when I hit another ship with a missle. The top I have seen using normal cruise missles is around 940 or so. What actual damage would I see if I were using seige missles?
|
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 15:38:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:43:51
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:41:21
No, i mean that usually defenders take out on missions 1-2 of missiles. With CNR that means 2 out of 7, with Golem that means 2 out of 4, which is 50%.
You can go with torpedoes however, but realistically you would need t2 range rigs, and level 5 skills in range, to get torps to about 60km, where some mission rats hang out.
It would require very good knowledge of the mission, and using t2 javelin ammo.
Golem is a great ship, but it is made fubared by the present game mechanics, that include the only faction battleship in the game to get 1 extra weapon from the base one, which also happens to be the best bs in game for PVE, coupled with the fact that all NPC's spew defenders, even those that have nothing to do with missiles - bloods and drones anyone.
TL;DR version : anything the Golem can do and that is relevant, CNR can do better, and what little Golem does better - tanking, it's mostly not needed.
|
MrRookie
Interstellar Planetary
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 16:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:43:51
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:41:21
No, i mean that usually defenders take out on missions 1-2 of missiles. With CNR that means 2 out of 7, with Golem that means 2 out of 4, which is 50%.
You can go with torpedoes however, but realistically you would need t2 range rigs, and level 5 skills in range, to get torps to about 60km, where some mission rats hang out.
It would require very good knowledge of the mission, and using t2 javelin ammo.
Golem is a great ship, but it is made fubared by the present game mechanics, that include the only faction battleship in the game to get 1 extra weapon from the base one, which also happens to be the best bs in game for PVE, coupled with the fact that all NPC's spew defenders, even those that have nothing to do with missiles - bloods and drones anyone.
TL;DR version : anything the Golem can do and that is relevant, CNR can do better, and what little Golem does better - tanking, it's mostly not needed.
Actually NPC defenders are chancebased
And no, The CNR can't use torps as well as the Golem
Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
IceCreamMonster
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 18:57:00 -
[19]
Edited by: IceCreamMonster on 19/05/2008 19:01:26
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:43:51
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:41:21
No, i mean that usually defenders take out on missions 1-2 of missiles. With CNR that means 2 out of 7, with Golem that means 2 out of 4, which is 50%.
NPC spits a defender based on a fix chance per missile you fire. Golem does not suffer more than CNR from NPC defenders.
...but the OP asked for PVP, so whatever.
|
Yakkha
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 19:10:00 -
[20]
ahaha here is the trend:
...Golem Thread
...some dude jumps in and says golem is gimped in pve because npc defender.
...everyone respond explaining it's chance based or link dev's statement for proof.
...Another golem thread
...some dude jumps in...
It just goes like this over and over again.
|
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 19:20:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 19/05/2008 19:20:17
Originally by: Yakkha
ahaha here is the trend:
...Golem Thread
...some dude jumps in and says golem is gimped in pve because npc defender.
...everyone respond explaining it's chance based or link dev's statement for proof.
...Another golem thread
...some dude jumps in...
It just goes like this over and over again.
all of this has happened before, and will happen again
and again
and again
and again
the curse of the golem thread?
|
Dreadpilot Roberts
Corp 1 Allstars
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 00:48:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dreadpilot Roberts on 20/05/2008 00:48:47
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:43:51
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:41:21
No, i mean that usually defenders take out on missions 1-2 of missiles. With CNR that means 2 out of 7, with Golem that means 2 out of 4, which is 50%.
You can go with torpedoes however, but realistically you would need t2 range rigs, and level 5 skills in range, to get torps to about 60km, where some mission rats hang out.
It would require very good knowledge of the mission, and using t2 javelin ammo.
Golem is a great ship, but it is made fubared by the present game mechanics, that include the only faction battleship in the game to get 1 extra weapon from the base one, which also happens to be the best bs in game for PVE, coupled with the fact that all NPC's spew defenders, even those that have nothing to do with missiles - bloods and drones anyone.
TL;DR version : anything the Golem can do and that is relevant, CNR can do better, and what little Golem does better - tanking, it's mostly not needed.
Golem is an uber boat for pvp, go for shield tank (active) in small gangs (1-10) ppl. It tanks like a god. Sensor strength means that a griffin can perma-jam u tho and there goes your dps support. In large-scale engagements it's useless, as any other faction BS or marauder is. But if you think you wont get blobbed and if you have gang-mates that know what they're doing, a Golem is a beast for pvp ( again I cant stress this out enough - small scale pvp and hopefully low-sec - I'd gladly do 30 jumps if I read "Golem tackled" in alliance chat ).
Setana sadly is posting off-topic and her defender theory is wrong also.
"Mai lasa misiunile"
P.S. Carry some FOF's in cargo just in case u get jammed :) Also take this advice from someone who didnt fly the ship but encountered it in pvp a few times.
I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ? |
Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 04:17:00 -
[23]
A golem or marauder in general can probably be a nice lowsec ship, small gang ship, solo ship.
Wouldnt take it out for anything else.
|
Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 04:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Commoner
Edited by: Commoner on 14/05/2008 11:41:05
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Golem = useless pvp ship.
It is useles for spidertanking pvp as well.
1 Set of light ECM drones and you could probebly permajam the golem and obsolete spidertanking. Its very easy to break spidertanking anyway and the super low ECM strenth of Golem makes it even easier.
Dont try to reinvent the wheel people, mauraders are no good for pvp at all.
I'd say it's better than the Raven for pvp, stick on an ECCM and you've got some sensor strength to play with, with better resists.
However, i agree with you that it isn't the most cost-effective pvp ship, but it'sa good ship. (Probably better to use a carrier, rougly same price).
It's hardly better then a raven. And only costs the same as loosing 25 ravens.
|
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 08:48:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 20/05/2008 08:53:23
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 20/05/2008 08:52:16
Originally by: Yakkha
ahaha here is the trend:
...Golem Thread
...some dude jumps in and says golem is gimped in pve because npc defender.
...everyone respond explaining it's chance based or link dev's statement for proof.
...Another golem thread
...some dude jumps in...
It just goes like this over and over again.
Might be so, but it won't stop because very few read all the threads posted all the time for 1 month to notice a patern. If Defenders work as the KIA dude pointed out, then it might be worth giving the Golem a shot. And btw, torp raven can actually be used in mission with t2 rigs for range and Javelin ammo, a setup was posted about 2 months ago.
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Edited by: Dreadpilot Roberts on 20/05/2008 00:48:47
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:43:51
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 19/05/2008 15:41:21
No, i mean that usually defenders take out on missions 1-2 of missiles. With CNR that means 2 out of 7, with Golem that means 2 out of 4, which is 50%.
You can go with torpedoes however, but realistically you would need t2 range rigs, and level 5 skills in range, to get torps to about 60km, where some mission rats hang out.
It would require very good knowledge of the mission, and using t2 javelin ammo.
Golem is a great ship, but it is made fubared by the present game mechanics, that include the only faction battleship in the game to get 1 extra weapon from the base one, which also happens to be the best bs in game for PVE, coupled with the fact that all NPC's spew defenders, even those that have nothing to do with missiles - bloods and drones anyone.
TL;DR version : anything the Golem can do and that is relevant, CNR can do better, and what little Golem does better - tanking, it's mostly not needed.
Golem is an uber boat for pvp, go for shield tank (active) in small gangs (1-10) ppl. It tanks like a god. Sensor strength means that a griffin can perma-jam u tho and there goes your dps support. In large-scale engagements it's useless, as any other faction BS or marauder is. But if you think you wont get blobbed and if you have gang-mates that know what they're doing, a Golem is a beast for pvp ( again I cant stress this out enough - small scale pvp and hopefully low-sec - I'd gladly do 30 jumps if I read "Golem tackled" in alliance chat ).
Setana sadly is posting off-topic and her defender theory is wrong also.
"Mai lasa misiunile"
P.S. Carry some FOF's in cargo just in case u get jammed :) Also take this advice from someone who didnt fly the ship but encountered it in pvp a few times.
WTB torpedo FOF aka 'vreau minuni'.
|
Yakkha
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 15:24:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Yakkha on 20/05/2008 15:34:40
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Originally by: Yakkha
ahaha here is the trend:
...Golem Thread
...some dude jumps in and says golem is gimped in pve because npc defender.
...everyone respond explaining it's chance based or link dev's statement for proof.
...Another golem thread
...some dude jumps in...
It just goes like this over and over again.
Might be so, but it won't stop because very few read all the threads posted all the time for 1 month to notice a patern. If Defenders work as the KIA dude pointed out, then it might be worth giving the Golem a shot. And btw, torp raven can actually be used in mission with t2 rigs for range and Javelin ammo, a setup was posted about 2 months ago.
Hehe, I'm sorry I didn't make my self clear.
When I made the sarcastic comment, the "some dude jumps in..." was you :) And these threads will repeat as long as those people refuse to realize that bit of game mechanics.
The golem works just like the KIA guy said, there is no "If"... because DEV had said so, and people(including me) did statistical analysis on the topic to confirm that. We found out that even if we were to treat the chance of NPC defender firing as probability, the standard deviation shows CNR and Golem's dps potential to be equal with different number of launchers.
... and if you had read all the past months threads like you mentioned you would know that. and the 2 of the Javalin Torp Golem setups were posted by my characters ;)
I know my tone sounds a bit harsh, but I'm just a little annoyed by the fact that you contine to pretend you know all about the golem when you didn't even know how NPC defenders worked. By the sounds of it, I know you don't fly one.
|
Polly Prissypantz
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 16:07:00 -
[27]
Golem is a lossmail waiting to happen. Just fly a Torp Raven instead.
|
Thorek Ironbrow
Caldari
Ironbrow Industries Co.
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 16:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Commoner
Edited by: Commoner on 14/05/2008 11:41:05
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Golem = useless pvp ship.
It is useles for spidertanking pvp as well.
1 Set of light ECM drones and you could probebly permajam the golem and obsolete spidertanking. Its very easy to break spidertanking anyway and the super low ECM strenth of Golem makes it even easier.
Dont try to reinvent the wheel people, mauraders are no good for pvp at all.
I'd say it's better than the Raven for pvp, stick on an ECCM and you've got some sensor strength to play with, with better resists.
However, i agree with you that it isn't the most cost-effective pvp ship, but it'sa good ship. (Probably better to use a carrier, rougly same price).
#
But a Raven doesn't cost 700 Mil. I'd only fly a Golem if I really knew I was invincible.
_____________________________
The Jove will return... |
MrRookie
Interstellar Planetary
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:16:00 -
[29]
An interesting fitt for the Golem would be cruise launchers, missile explotion velocity rigs, javelin cruise missiles and as ubertank as possible. Not sure how that would work out on nanoboats
Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |