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Does CCP Scam people or is this some great isk sink by design?

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Genji Ancient	Posted - 2008.05.14 00:12:00 - [1] Does CCP Scam people or is this some great isk sink by design? When I look at all the containers sold in Jita there is always 1 container of each type sold by Caldari Navy which is 100X or 1000X the price of all the other containers. This container is always sold by Caldari Navy and is replaced on market immediately after sale. Besides being a money sink, what purpose would this serve from CCP (Caldari Navy)?
Kwint Sommer Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2008.05.14 00:19:00 - [2] So what you're saying is there's an NPC sell order that's 100x or 1000x times the normal price? That's not a scam, they're not tricking you into buying it. The price is clearly listed just like every other item on the market. I have no idea why they're so much more expensive but it's not a scam. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.05.14 00:30:00 - [3] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 14/05/2008 00:31:07 Originally by: Kwint Sommer So what you're saying is there's an NPC sell order that's 100x or 1000x times the normal price? That's not a scam, they're not tricking you into buying it. The price is clearly listed just like every other item on the market. I have no idea why they're so much more expensive but it's not a scam. Price for NPC items rises as you buy them in the same location, plus the final price is no surprise given the traffic in Jita.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.05.14 04:00:00 - [4] Especially if we're talking about Jita 4-4, then it isn't really surprising at all.
Genji Ancient	Posted - 2008.05.14 08:42:00 - [5] What's puzzling to me is that it's listed twice for each container type by the Caldari Navy The normal XXX quantity at price and then the 1 qty at 1000*price. I could see the stock containers going up/down in price based on demand. Caldari Navy has the same item listed twice. This is where I'm trying to figure out the intent.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.14 12:34:00 - [6] It's a stupid player's order. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
Rho'varo Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.05.14 13:33:00 - [7] Such items are not listed by the Caldari Navy, rather they are listed at the Caldari Navy station. NPC have an "expires in" date of about 364 days, whereas player orders have a maximum of 90 days. A player order might be replaced soon after being fulfilled (if the player happens to be watching and sees the transaction is done and sets up a new one), but only an NPC order is replaced instantly. But how do you know that this order is being replenished instantly? If you were buying the item (not sure why you would, as that's an expensive way to satisfy your curiosity), you would know (from your wallet's transaction log) whether or not it is the NPC corporation placing the sell orders... and if you're not buying the item, how do you know it's being replenished instantly? Features & Ideas: Winding Up Learning Skills
Daerkannon Shimmerscale Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.05.14 14:28:00 - [8] A corp mate of mine once bought a shuttle for 9M isk from Zoar and Sons. What this is isn't some NPC scam, it's an attempted scam from a player that doesn't understand how the market works. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this by now, but when you buy an item it is always filled by the lowest sell order. Even if you click on another order, the order gets filled from the lowest sell order at the price you selected. Since the NPC listed containers are lower than the player container, you end up with the player price from an NPC. The only way this scam could work is if the person in question put up (and kept up) containers at 0.01 less than the NPC price. Frankly I can think of better ways to make ISK. --- Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here! Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs!
Rho'varo Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.05.14 18:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale [W]hen you buy an item it is always filled by the lowest sell order [at that location]. Right you are. I sometimes forget how many people are ignorant of the market order matching process. Still, in order for the OP to be confused by this, wouldn't he need to be trying to buy from the ludicrously over-priced order? Do people really do that (when they are paying attention to the market orders, like the OP seems to be doing)? Features & Ideas: Winding Up Learning Skills
Genji Ancient	Posted - 2008.05.14 21:23:00 - [10] Edited by: Genji Ancient on 14/05/2008 21:23:21 I took a screenshot of the image of my wallent indicating that both items were sold by Caldari Navy: http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mediumsecurecontaineric8.gif There is no player named 'Caldari Navy'. Hence, I'm wondering why CCP would do this?
Chira Netanru	Posted - 2008.05.14 21:29:00 - [11] What part of "You cannot choose what sell order you buy from" don't you understand?
Whip Slagcheek	Posted - 2008.05.14 21:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Genji Ancient Edited by: Genji Ancient on 14/05/2008 21:23:21 I took a screenshot of the image of my wallent indicating that both items were sold by Caldari Navy: http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mediumsecurecontaineric8.gif There is no player named 'Caldari Navy'. Hence, I'm wondering why CCP would do this? Two things going on here that people are trying to explain to you. First, you tried to buy from a player's sell order. NPC sell / buy orders always have 365 days as duration which a player's order cannot. Second, you tried to buy from player but due to how the market works you actually bought from Caldari Navy. This is to keep people from transferring isk from alts / money laundering. You pay the higher sell order's price but the money goes to the lowest sell order. Congratulations, you just poured isk into the black hole of Jita.
Genji Ancient	Posted - 2008.05.14 21:42:00 - [13] I missed the understanding that if I click on the wrong sell order it selects that price but the lowest sell order receives the isk. I was thinking that you did not understand that both names listed was Caldri Navy. Do you think it's a bug that allows this to occur? If I can't choose which sell order to purchase, why would it allow me to choose a higher price to go to the lowest sell order? The effect is still allowing people to chooes a higher price to pay regardless of who gets the isk. In this case, CCP is primary beneficiary of this isk because there is a loss of isk in the economy.
Rho'varo Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.05.14 21:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Genji Ancient I took a screenshot of my wallet indicating that both items were sold by Caldari Navy. There is no player named 'Caldari Navy'. Hence, I'm wondering why CCP would do this. The real question is: why you would do this? That screenshot suggests that you placed an order for a Medium Secure Container in which you offered to pay 261 MISK for it (perhaps by accident). Given that you made that offer, why would the Caldari Navy (or any seller, NPC or player) turn it down? The market system then matches your offered ISK to the lowest-priced sell order item(s) at the relevant location, in this case the standing order from the Caldari Navy, and the transaction is executed. Because the ludicrously-priced order was not matched, that order stays in place. That pilot will eventually cancel the order or watch it expire, since it will never be matched so long as the Caldari Navy keeps posting its sell orders (instantly and forever as an NPC, as far as I know). That sad pilot is simply out of pocket the ISK (perhaps up to 2.61 M) that he or she paid in broker fees to post the order. Features & Ideas: Winding Up Learning Skills
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.14 21:59:00 - [15] I wish people would tell me about these dangerous activities before they do them. When buying well above market, you need a trained professional, such as myself to place a low sell order so that disastrous instabilities in the market can be avoided. As it is, someone is going to have to send me a lot of isk (I'm not sure how much yet, so just keep sending it) until I sound the "all clear".
Genji Ancient	Posted - 2008.05.14 22:07:00 - [16] Edited by: Genji Ancient on 14/05/2008 22:09:20 Quote: why you would do this? I did it by mistake. It's my loss I paid for it. I wish I could accurately say it will be the last mistake but, somehow, I doubt it will be.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.05.14 22:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Genji Ancient Do you think it's a bug that allows this to occur? If I can't choose which sell order to purchase, why would it allow me to choose a higher price to go to the lowest sell order? It is not a bug it is a feature: it is required to allow market PvP. You defeat someone else by out bidding them: if you have the lowest sell order in that station, you can be certain that your items will sell first, beating anyone else's sell order in that station. There is nothing wrong with letting buyers pay more for their items if they choose to do so, either intentionally or accidentally. It is up to the buyer to unsure they are paying the lowest price. The seller receives whatever the buyer chooses to pay, as long as it is atleast the minimum amount asked. This can be great for market PvP, if you have the lowest priced item in the station, you will receive extra ISK if someone attempts to purchase from a more expensive competitor: think of it as an added bonus for offering the best price. In your case, both names list Caldari Navy because they had the lowest price in that station at the time you completed the transaction. The more expensive order was likely placed by a player. If you want to deal with specific sellers, then arrange your transactions through contracts instead of the market.
Whip Slagcheek	Posted - 2008.05.15 00:37:00 - [18] My question is why would someone place an item at a very high price in the same station that NPCs sell the item.
Chira Netanru	Posted - 2008.05.15 00:41:00 - [19] Probably because he also undercut the NPC orders and subsequently found that he didn't have enough isk to maintain enough containers under NPC price before he caught someone in his trap, or simply forgot to refresh his sell orders.
Rho'varo Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.05.15 00:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Chira Netanru ... didn't have enough isk to maintain enough containers under NPC price before he caught someone in his trap ... What trap? Features & Ideas: Winding Up Learning Skills
Chira Netanru	Posted - 2008.05.15 00:47:00 - [21] You are officially too dumb to use market orders. Please recycle your trade alts and turn in your isk.
Rho'varo Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.05.15 00:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Chira Netanru You are officially too dumb to use market orders. Please recycle your trade alts and turn in your isk. You could have highlighted your smartness by explaining, but instead you chose to highlight your rudeness. Well played. I make my ISK honestly (buy low, sell high), and I don't spend a lot of time trying to think of market "traps" or ways to trick other pilots into screwing up. I hope someone explains. Features & Ideas: Winding Up Learning Skills
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.05.15 01:11:00 - [23] You set 1 item for 1000 times the npc price. You then sell 1000 items at .01 isk below the npc price. You sell 99.9% of your items at a 1 isk loss. You sell 0.1% for 1000 times the list price. In the end you make out quite well. It's playing on people's stupidity and you are counting on people being dumb. It's a good gamble as people are clearly not all well informed, as this thread points out. We've had this same question asked time and time again. I personally wouldn't waste my time using this method. It's a crap-shoot and a bit too close to griefing for my taste, but it's a legit strategy that only a lazy or uninformed player falls for... and if you are lazy or uninformed in EVE you deserve to be parted from your ISK.
masternerdguy	Posted - 2008.05.15 01:14:00 - [24] faction items are expensive cuz their awesome!
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.15 01:57:00 - [25] Originally by: masternerdguy faction items are expensive cuz their awesome! WTB Caldari Navy Giant Secure Container. Improve Market Competition!
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.05.15 02:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Originally by: masternerdguy faction items are expensive cuz their awesome! WTB Caldari Navy Giant Secure Container. Just rename the normal one.
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.15 16:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale A corp mate of mine once bought a shuttle for 9M isk from Zoar and Sons. What this is isn't some NPC scam, it's an attempted scam from a player that doesn't understand how the market works. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this by now, but when you buy an item it is always filled by the lowest sell order. Even if you click on another order, the order gets filled from the lowest sell order at the price you selected. Since the NPC listed containers are lower than the player container, you end up with the player price from an NPC. The only way this scam could work is if the person in question put up (and kept up) containers at 0.01 less than the NPC price. Frankly I can think of better ways to make ISK. A GM gave me the intel about this beeing a feature not a wrong working market. I wondered myself about selling stuff at higher prices, i never placed. * new []HINTS[] Competitions * * check them out * * prize:150,000,000.00isk *
Chira Netanru	Posted - 2008.05.15 16:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Rho'varo I make my ISK honestly (buy low, sell high), and I don't spend a lot of time trying to think This is just the logical extension of buying low and selling high, none of which has anything to do with honesty.

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