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"you" can exploit?

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Jorah Vulture Minmatar Wrecking Ball Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:37:00 - [1] I've been told by a trustworthy person that renaming a can "you" is considered an exploit when used to confuse people making them believe you're shooting at them. However, I petitioned about it and the GM said it's not an exploit. The guy that first told me is pretty sure about it, so I suspect the gm might have commited a mistake. Who's right there? thanks.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:44:00 - [2] I read about a guy getting banned for this. I hope you're hitting F5 'cause this post might get moderated and I might get a nasty e-mail, but here goes: You warp to belt, see miner with can. You go flip can, now flashing red to miner by can aggro. You name your can 'you'. You target the miner and your can. You wait for the miner's auto-lockback to resolve and him to start flashing yellow. (this will work best if he has his drones out). Now, you warp scramble the can named you. this causes a message to pop on his screen, saying "Avoheja[VCO](Kestrel) has started trying to warp scramble you." for example. Now, the miner sees that, goes "oh snap!" and sets his drones on you. Now you can shoot him. That was called an exploit a while back, and afaik nothing has changed.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:59:00 - [3] Why not just grow some instead of trying to work out how to use some lame mechanics to score a risk free kill. Real pvpers just shoot others in the face, none of this 'flagging' crap. KIA - Don't ask me, I was off grid.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:06:00 - [4] By your logic, shouldn't you guys still be in Period Basis 'shooting others in the face' instead of looking for easy ganks in the north? The same way Death4Free is tired of seeing killmails, I'm tired of seeing 'real pvpers do this' or 'real pvpers do that'. Real pvpers undock, at that moment you've signed up for PvP and whatever happens to you happens - even if you're just a scrub in a belt in 1.0 space, using a Navitas to mine into a jetcan. Maybe, like Death4Free, I need to just recognize a ****poast earlier and not read it.
Jorah Vulture Minmatar Wrecking Ball Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Necronomicon Why not just grow some instead of trying to work out how to use some lame mechanics to score a risk free kill. Real pvpers just shoot others in the face, none of this 'flagging' crap. Why do you assume I WANT to use it? I might have been a target of that exploit and be looking for information.
Green Halo Vigilante inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:55:00 - [6] Edited by: Green Halo on 17/05/2008 22:02:40 Why is it an exploit? It is breaking any rules in EVE? How about the Game Mechanics? If someone is stupid enough to engage to that old trick, its their own fault.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Green Halo Edited by: Green Halo on 17/05/2008 22:02:40 Why is it an exploit? It is breaking any rules in EVE? How about the Game Mechanics? If someone is stupid enough to engage to that old trick, its their own fault. The game mechanics was the point. When you get warp scrambled, you see a message that says "SoAndSo[TICKR](ShipType) has starting trying to warp scramble you." When that person is already flashing red on your overview and you see this message, it's not hard for anybody to have an "Oh ****!" reaction and 'fight back'. Especially when you consider that A LOT of people don't know how can aggro works to begin with, as evidenced by the dozen posts per week here in C&P asking how can flipping works. "I flipped this retriever's can and went to shoot him and I got CONCORDed - halp!" ...ring any bells?
Venetian Tar Heretic Army	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Jorah Vulture I've been told by a trustworthy person that renaming a can "you" is considered an exploit when used to confuse people making them believe you're shooting at them. However, I petitioned about it and the GM said it's not an exploit. The guy that first told me is pretty sure about it, so I suspect the gm might have commited a mistake. Who's right there? thanks. Woah, hang on... why would you need to warp scram a can to destroy it anyway? [I know, nothing to do with the OP... ] -----------------------
Fox Ogmo Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:16:00 - [9] I once flipped a miner in hisec whilst flying a rifer, then gave him the old "Fox Ogmo has started warp scrambling you" trick, he does nothing for a good five minutes, eventually a corp mate of the miner in a phoon warps in and I think "Oooh, my rifter's cheap, lets see how long i can speed tank this phoon's weapons?" Well, it turned out not to be long with a web on his setup, but the best bit was after, when the miner tells me in local: "That'll teach you for daring to warp scramble me" That made me chuckle.
OzakiFragments Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:38:00 - [10] Oh no way, I was in Sobaseki->Jita gate and a bunch of Omen guys locked me and they had a can w/ you out. Said they were tryin to warp scramble me...i was wondering why Concord didnt interfere o.O

Green Halo Vigilante inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Avoheja The game mechanics was the point. When you get warp scrambled, you see a message that says "SoAndSo[TICKR](ShipType) has starting trying to warp scramble you." When that person is already flashing red on your overview and you see this message, it's not hard for anybody to have an "Oh ****!" reaction and 'fight back'. Especially when you consider that A LOT of people don't know how can aggro works to begin with, as evidenced by the dozen posts per week here in C&P asking how can flipping works. "I flipped this retriever's can and went to shoot him and I got CONCORDed - halp!" ...ring any bells? They don't flash red at all, just yellow from the targeting... And its not doing anything to them, just giving everyone on grid a nice notice that you would like your can to not warp away.
Erialor Godsent Gallente Federal Navy Support Divison	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Green Halo Edited by: Green Halo on 17/05/2008 23:46:37 Originally by: Avoheja The game mechanics was the point. When you get warp scrambled, you see a message that says "SoAndSo[TICKR](ShipType) has starting trying to warp scramble you." [b]When that person is already flashing red on your overview and you see this message.... They don't flash red at all, just yellow from the targeting... Yellow from the targetting yes, but already flashing red because he can-flipped... -- Get Your Crumplecorn signature here.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:56:00 - [13] The people that fall for this trick don't have their overviews setup correctly.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.18 00:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Green Halo Edited by: Green Halo on 17/05/2008 23:46:37 They don't flash red at all, just yellow from the targeting... And its not doing anything to them, just giving everyone on grid a nice notice that you would like your can to not warp away. So... - If guy targeting you is YELLOW, he's not really scrambling you. - If guy targeting you turns from YELLOW to RED, he's most likely about to be concorded Edit: look ma', I can BOLD too! I see you can bold. I also see that you don't know how this trick is/was done. Here, let me highlight this to make sure you don't miss it: Originally by: Erialor Godsent Yellow from the targetting yes, but already flashing red because he can-flipped... Thanks for your help in explaining how/why this trick came to be classed as an exploit, Erialor. Do you understand it a bit better now, Green Halo?
Green Halo Vigilante inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 00:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Avoheja I see you can bold. I also see that you don't know how this trick is/was done. Here, let me highlight this to make sure you don't miss it: Originally by: Erialor Godsent Yellow from the targetting yes, but already flashing red because he can-flipped... Thanks for your help in explaining how/why this trick came to be classed as an exploit, Erialor. Do you understand it a bit better now, Green Halo? Missed that part, thanks for correcting me. Although that part of the 'exploit' was not known to me, the 'naming a can YOU and warp scrambling it while targeting someone else' is not an exploit.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.18 00:33:00 - [16] eve-search yields too many results for a search on 'can exploit', so I can't find the thread where a dev replied to it, but yes, within the last 8 months it was classed an exploit. Probably because it has the same feel of can baiting noobs in the starter system - who knows... As the OP stated, a recent GM response said it's not an exploit. Conclusion, I guess, is go ahead and do it until the right GM gets the petition and takes action on you. My more ignorant persona isn't allowed in highsec anymore so I don't mind it - I hope it IS no longer considered an exploit. I personally agree with the people who have said "if you're dumb enough to fall for that you deserved to die".
Majuan Shuo Vigilante inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 06:57:00 - [17] let this die halo q-"WELL WHAT ABOUT THE PIRATE CODE!?" a-"well actually... they're more like guidelines.."
Molpadia Devaux Minmatar Applied Creations	Posted - 2008.05.18 09:57:00 - [18] What is an exploit? Hacking and using 3rd party programs to give you an unintended advantage. Example the one that allowed you to fit more modules then your ship was designed for. Exploit would also include using designed features in a way not intended. Tricking the unwary into attacking you is valid. Using a game feature that automaticaly notifies a player when "you" are being warp scrambled is perverting the intended design of the feature. Until CCP officially announces that using this feature this way is working as intended, then it is an exploit.
Dihania Gallente Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.05.18 10:08:00 - [19] This means that a person named you is helping exploiting since playing eve. You scramble you and confuse people to shoot you. Makes no bloody sense, if they indeed named this an exploit than they suck . I need isk! Accepting donations :)
Feilamya Minmatar Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:08:00 - [20] Every cheap trick uses game mechanics in a way they were not intended, and therefore is an exploit by your definition. If you don't want to be creative, and you hate others that are, you shouldn't play games that are more complex than "Tic Tac Toe" or "World Wide Nuclear War". It is usually peoples' personal opinion that distinguishes between exploits and cheap tricks. It's an exploit if others do it. I like cheap tricks myself and prefer them over brute force more often than not. I wouldn't do stuff like the "you" can trick though, because it's pathetic, but I know better than to call it an exploit just because I'm not lame enough to do it.

Sirius Problem Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Jorah Vulture I've been told by a trustworthy person that renaming a can "you" is considered an exploit when used to confuse people making them believe you're shooting at them. It used to be that if you named a can "You" and scrammed it, everyone on the grid would see the message "XYZ has started warp scrambling you". If you had targeted a neutral and they saw this message, they could be fooled into believing you were scramming them, causing them to retaliate. However, the message was changed some time ago to something like "XYZ has started to warp scramble the cargo container named 'you". That may not be the exact message, but the point is that it's been changed so as not to lead to confusion. ---- Train more. Whine less.
Tzar'rim Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:42:00 - [22] There's a bunch of people in this thread who have no clue about what is asked yet they feel the need to show how 'uber' they are by l337 posting. As far as I know it's classed as an exploit (I'm the trustworthy person in the OP) and I've petitioned it on occasion and the GM acted on it, this is not too long ago. It could ofcourse have changed as stated above but I just tested it and it's not as evident as one might think. Here's a screenie of me scrambling a can called "you" as seen from my alt. It doesn't state that it's a "can called 'you'" but it DOES say "'you'". So yes, you can tell but it's still not really clear. Wether that was grounds enough for CCP to stop classing it as an exploit I don't know. I don't use it since to me it's still an exploit. screenie Looking for a corp again
Green Halo Vigilante inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Tzar'rim There's a bunch of people in this thread who have no clue about what is asked yet they feel the need to show how 'uber' they are by l337 posting. Yes. Elite. Originally by: Tzar'rim As far as I know it's classed as an exploit (I'm the trustworthy person in the OP) and I've petitioned it on occasion and the GM acted on it, this is not too long ago. How long ago, before it was classed or after? Because this 'trick' has been around for as long as I can remember in EVE. And I know a heck of a lot of people who have done it that would be jeopardy if what you said, the GM said, was true. Originally by: Tzar'rim Here's a screenie of me scrambling a can called "you" as seen from my alt. It doesn't state that it's a "can called 'you'" but it DOES say "'you'". So yes, you can tell but it's still not really clear. Wether that was grounds enough for CCP to stop classing it as an exploit I don't know. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't an exploit by itself. Although as Avoheja pointed out, it can be classed as an exploit IF combined with the can flipping aggro. Which even then it loses any real reason for calling it an exploit... because the original point of doing this 'trick' is to get the person to aggres you and DIE to CONCORD.
Majuan Shuo Vigilante inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Molpadia Devaux Until CCP officially announces that using this feature this way is working as intended, then it is an exploit. no im pretty sure until its "classified" as an exploit, then its NOT an exploit e.g. you cant break a law unless its stated as a law, and the broad spectrum you tried to categorize it as doesnt cut it imo q-"WELL WHAT ABOUT THE PIRATE CODE!?" a-"well actually... they're more like guidelines.."
Tzar'rim Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:18:00 - [25] 2-3 months, something like that. GM stated he'd look into it and shortly after the can mysteriously dissapeared. Thing is, it has been classed as an exploit a long time ago and as far as I know (luckily I don't know everything) it still is/was. There's several situations where this could work, thing is that it doesn't matter. I've seen it done just outside a tradehub, when someone tried to can flip me (yeah, like that's gonna work) and on other occasions as well. IF it has changed solely on the fact that it now shows when the trick is being used it's not exactly obvious to the untrained eye. As such I have no problem with that since EVE is about Darwinism but the difference between "you" and "'you'" is kinda minimal. Looking for a corp again
KapnKaboom School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:16:00 - [26] It's hard to see how anyone could fall for this. In highsec, trying to fight back even if someone REALLY was trying to warp scramble you out of the blue like that would be pointless as Concord would cut them down quickly. Anyone dumb enough to be in highsec and to think 'oh ****' and counter attack like that deserves their loss tbh. Darwinism at its best.
Savage Roar Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:02:00 - [27] /me points out that the overview has, by default even, an icon to let you know when you're being scrammed......
Caligulus Legion of Lost Souls Ivy League	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:28:00 - [28] Edited by: Caligulus on 19/05/2008 08:28:44 I personally prefer naming the can "your mom", or if it's a minmatar ship "your floating trash heap". You get some decent lawls out of that. Definitely fun to do in return to can flippers. ------------------------------------------------- ** You're out of your mind! ** Well that's between me and my mind.
Auron Shadowbane Pelennor Swarm Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 18:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Savage Roar /me points out that the overview has, by default even, an icon to let you know when you're being scrammed...... which wasnt there for a LOOONG time boy :)
Blood Daemon Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.20 15:27:00 - [30] Edited by: Blood Daemon on 20/05/2008 15:27:17 Originally by: Avoheja By your logic, shouldn't you guys still be in Period Basis 'shooting others in the face' instead of looking for easy ganks in the north? The same way Death4Free is tired of seeing killmails, I'm tired of seeing 'real pvpers do this' or 'real pvpers do that'. Real pvpers undock, at that moment you've signed up for PvP and whatever happens to you happens - even if you're just a scrub in a belt in 1.0 space, using a Navitas to mine into a jetcan. Maybe, like Death4Free, I need to just recognize a ****poast earlier and not read it. Nice post!!1 ------------------ SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION



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