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Factional Warfare: How will it be Won?

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Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 18:00:09 Well so far we've discussed Factional Warfare to great extent, wither it be the impact it has on the game - how exactly it will work, RP alliances being po'ed, and armageddon World of Evecraft Doomsday threads. Now arises a new and important question - how will this be fought? How will it be fought ,in terms of what we are actually going to see on the battlefield; what kind of ships that people will be using? Now at first, I thought to myself, "Ugh, dear god - there's going to be a few hundred thousand nanohac's out". In that event, you can except the Huginn/Hyena markets to skyrocket after a few weeks of release. I continued that line of thought and figured that if blockade tactics to cut-off reinforcements into a target system were put into wide use, nanohac's could in theory because less useful here. Your likely are going to need more heavy hitters/tankers to form up the bulk of a blockade - something that can cut down small or large groups of ships trying to push there way in. You would also need to have a series of covert ops to effectively probe those doing militia missions in the name of their faction. As for capitals - it may all depend. There has been no statements from CCP that POS's will not be anchorable - it could end up becoming where some corporations will anchor POS's to act as a supply center/fortress; that is if they are allowed. In this event, POS's would be used as waypoints for capital pilots, and/or targets for dreadnoughts. It's probably likely that carriers and some dreadnoughts, the Moros in particular, will be widely used. A good and experienced capital fleet may end up making a extremely effective blockade. We can think of a lot of things, it's not hard to see what people are going to do - and how they are going to fight - however the most important and hard to predict question is; what ship/tactic will we be seeing the most of? I still think it's going to be nano's for some reason, they are incredibly easy and effective, and are overrated - but people still blob in the things anyways, regardless. I'm not sure if that will stay this way though - it will at start; this will change if nanohac pilots realize, "you know - this works great in 0.0 and all but it sucks in this kinda fighting." I also predict, a lot of newer pilots, and carebears, will get very involved. As a result we will see a lot of t1 cruiser and battlecruiser battalions. We may see a lot of, for example, Thorax fleets, or Caracal fleets. They have proved effective in groups before, and are cheap. Well - that's just my line of thought. I'm not a expert of war - so anyone else have any of their own theories on what these battlefields are going to look like? Will nanohac's be incredibly overused and overrated in this style of warfare too? ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:08:00 - [2] did you lsiten to the live dev blog? that's all the info we get for now. but as far as I know it will be winnable which would be funny :P and then basicly the other faction would have to push REALLY REALLY hard and use black ops battleships and such to sneak behind lines and start taking over pockets of space. as far as ships being used... I don't know if letting MWD will be a good idea or not, maybe they are going to change how they work? because right now it might be full of ships going 13,000m/s unless... you have to stay in a range to take over a control point in which case you'd have to slow down. personally I can't wait to run around the frigate only complexes. In todays eve I daily hunt down players in these complexes. becuase when it comes to frigates I have almost all of my skills at level 5. well lets jsut wait one more days for that dev blog.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:45:00 - [3] Originally by: MotherMoon did you lsiten to the live dev blog? that's all the info we get for now. but as far as I know it will be winnable which would be funny :P and then basicly the other faction would have to push REALLY REALLY hard and use black ops battleships and such to sneak behind lines and start taking over pockets of space. as far as ships being used... I don't know if letting MWD will be a good idea or not, maybe they are going to change how they work? because right now it might be full of ships going 13,000m/s unless... you have to stay in a range to take over a control point in which case you'd have to slow down. personally I can't wait to run around the frigate only complexes. In todays eve I daily hunt down players in these complexes. becuase when it comes to frigates I have almost all of my skills at level 5. well lets just wait one more days for that dev blog. I did listen to it but it sounds like your the one not listening. My question is what the popular ship/fight style people will be using. Factional warfare can't be won - I know that, only titled my thread that way for effect - I'll suppose I'll change that for you, officer. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:51:00 - [4] Ships/Methods will be same as you see in PvP. Maybe a little more PvE oriented in the start. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Na'hkin Oaks Pro-Trade Industries Inc	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:56:00 - [5] I think the punisher will be a favourite t1 frigate closely followed by the rifter. t2 frigate will be crow/ishkur/blaster ranis t1 cruiser will be vexor/rupture t2 cruiser will be rapier/tanked ishtar/vagabong imo
Gwendion Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:08:00 - [6] First, they said in the Devblogs there will be mixes of areas. Some T1 Frig only, some up to T1 Cruiser only, others allowing T2, etc etc. So we will have areas with T1 only stuff. Originally by: Na'hkin Oaks I think the punisher will be a favourite t1 frigate closely followed by the rifter. t2 frigate will be crow/ishkur/blaster ranis t1 cruiser will be vexor/rupture t2 cruiser will be rapier/tanked ishtar/vagabong imo Na, T1 Frigs will be Kestral, Merlin (caldari) Incurus (gallente) Rifter (Minmatar) and Punisher mostly. There may be some ewar frigs, Griffins will be popular T2? I see a use for Assault frigs in there for T2 Frig areas. (Woot Harpy time) Basically, The combat and Ewar varities of T1 ships are going to sell like wildfire. We may see some T2 stuff going on by the vets, but iN general, It will be mostly fought like real wars. Cheap, Disposable people.. err ships.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:13:00 - [7] Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 19:14:18 Originally by: Gwendion First, they said in the Devblogs there will be mixes of areas. Some T1 Frig only, some up to T1 Cruiser only, others allowing T2, etc etc. So we will have areas with T1 only stuff. Originally by: Na'hkin Oaks I think the punisher will be a favourite t1 frigate closely followed by the rifter. t2 frigate will be crow/ishkur/blaster ranis t1 cruiser will be vexor/rupture t2 cruiser will be rapier/tanked ishtar/vagabong imo Na, T1 Frigs will be Kestral, Merlin (caldari) Incurus (gallente) Rifter (Minmatar) and Punisher mostly. There may be some ewar frigs, Griffins will be popular T2? I see a use for Assault frigs in there for T2 Frig areas. (Woot Harpy time) Basically, The combat and Ewar varities of T1 ships are going to sell like wildfire. We may see some T2 stuff going on by the vets, but iN general, It will be mostly fought like real wars. Cheap, Disposable people.. err ships. They also said they will have anything-goes complexes - I would assume those would be the biggest deals with the biggest fights. But - I would imagine cruisers are probably going to be one of the most usable things out there. In example, a thorax battlegroup can be incredibly useful in both the cruiser complexes, and the anything goes complexes. Vexor groups could be great too I bet - even in combination with Thorax's. I have seen a pretty mean spider tank between the two before in PvP. Vexor only groups are pretty vulnerable to smartbombs though, it takes just a medium, not even a large, to kill off all the drones Vexors can field. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:09:00 - [8] Edited by: Forge Lag on 18/05/2008 20:12:10 Originally by: Amastat Vexor only groups are pretty vulnerable to smartbombs though, it takes just a medium, not even a large, to kill off all the drones Vexors can field. You mean the drones with 100km range and cruiser sized tank? :-) Or you mean bonused blasters cannot kill stuff alone? :-)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Amastat Originally by: MotherMoon did you lsiten to the live dev blog? that's all the info we get for now. but as far as I know it will be winnable which would be funny :P and then basicly the other faction would have to push REALLY REALLY hard and use black ops battleships and such to sneak behind lines and start taking over pockets of space. as far as ships being used... I don't know if letting MWD will be a good idea or not, maybe they are going to change how they work? because right now it might be full of ships going 13,000m/s unless... you have to stay in a range to take over a control point in which case you'd have to slow down. personally I can't wait to run around the frigate only complexes. In todays eve I daily hunt down players in these complexes. becuase when it comes to frigates I have almost all of my skills at level 5. well lets just wait one more days for that dev blog. I did listen to it but it sounds like your the one not listening. My question is what the popular ship/fight style people will be using. Factional warfare can't be won - I know that, only titled my thread that way for effect - I'll suppose I'll change that for you, officer. sorry you added a LOT of content after I commented mate. In this case I need more information on how to capture points. If you only need to be in the complex it will be nano hell as fighting won't be part of the timers. However if you need to kill the other force AND stay close to the control point then Honestly I see people having two fleets, a close range tanking group with logtisics and snipers at range. Thus each control point would be two battles for power. However we must wait for satuady to test it :)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:19:00 - [10] Quote: You would also need to have a series of covert ops to effectively probe those doing militia missions in the name of their faction. \ quick point for thought. \ I believe that once you get to the mission point a beacon will be dropped in space telling everyone you are there, like a cyno. Meaning thankfully or not thankfully cov op ships might not be needed.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Forge Lag Edited by: Forge Lag on 18/05/2008 20:12:10 Originally by: Amastat Vexor only groups are pretty vulnerable to smartbombs though, it takes just a medium, not even a large, to kill off all the drones Vexors can field. You mean the drones with 100km range and cruiser sized tank? :-) Or you mean bonused blasters cannot kill stuff alone? :-) The combat drones, lol. Sentry's would only really work if all the Vexors did that and it was sniping - however you'd need another group to do the webbing/tackling, otherwise thats useless. If your using blasters, you'll have combat drones for additional damage at close range. Probably have a spider tank too - that's the most common Vexor group setup I've seen, and it's pretty impressive. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:23:00 - [12] Originally by: MotherMoon Quote: You would also need to have a series of covert ops to effectively probe those doing militia missions in the name of their faction. \ quick point for thought. \ I believe that once you get to the mission point a beacon will be dropped in space telling everyone you are there, like a cyno. Meaning thankfully or not thankfully cov op ships might not be needed. Yea I heard about the beacon thing before, but is that for control complexes only or missions too? The control complexes I believe will be static overview complexes - the mission ones won't be; they'd be triggered by a agent I presume. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:27:00 - [13] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Amastat Originally by: MotherMoon did you lsiten to the live dev blog? that's all the info we get for now. but as far as I know it will be winnable which would be funny :P and then basicly the other faction would have to push REALLY REALLY hard and use black ops battleships and such to sneak behind lines and start taking over pockets of space. as far as ships being used... I don't know if letting MWD will be a good idea or not, maybe they are going to change how they work? because right now it might be full of ships going 13,000m/s unless... you have to stay in a range to take over a control point in which case you'd have to slow down. personally I can't wait to run around the frigate only complexes. In todays eve I daily hunt down players in these complexes. becuase when it comes to frigates I have almost all of my skills at level 5. well lets just wait one more days for that dev blog. I did listen to it but it sounds like your the one not listening. My question is what the popular ship/fight style people will be using. Factional warfare can't be won - I know that, only titled my thread that way for effect - I'll suppose I'll change that for you, officer. sorry you added a LOT of content after I commented mate. In this case I need more information on how to capture points. If you only need to be in the complex it will be nano hell as fighting won't be part of the timers. However if you need to kill the other force AND stay close to the control point then Honestly I see people having two fleets, a close range tanking group with logtisics and snipers at range. Thus each control point would be two battles for power. However we must wait for satuady to test it :) In the live-blog CCP said that it will not be a hitpoint based takedown, it would be timed based. So - it's a matter of holding the complex and bashing the bunker for long enough to win control. I could imagine that there would be quite a need for support to keep opposition from coming in and removing the siege force. Snipers and logistic for example I would imagine are good for helping protect the siege units. I bet you will be seeing some nano-logistic cruisers in the future for this. Killing the defense force isn't really necessary, but you will have to deal with them if you plan to actually capture a bunker. You probably will also need to clear them out of the area after you seize control because they will probably want to take it back - unless there is a cooldown between being able to attack a bunker every time the control shifts. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:20:00 - [14] to much text i would just say hopefully dirty factional piracy to get on top
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:27:00 - [15] hi, here's what i'll be doing, where to find me, and how to best fit to kill me and get my phat phat lootz:
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:42:00 - [16] I think i'll start with the good old drake, a solid and cheap ship, and then see what's going on. Probably it will be a lag/blob-fest anyways in the first weeks, since everyone wants to try it out ... and imagine systems full like jita, but with lots of pvp / drones / pve activities - lagproof setups might be a good idea. Depending on how things work i'll try to adapt, for example if caldaris will dominate the gates / battlegrounds a high dps ship/fitting might be ok, if the grounds are camped by pirates or frustrated alliance members (some already announced to kill fw-participants as a statement, becaus they are refused to participate as an alliance), something fast might be good, maybe a crow - or most likely a covops. It will be something totally new, eve never saw something like this so new tactics / ways of use ships will be developped, new thinking (instead of only repeating old tactics) will be required. It's very hard to say what ships will dominate the field after the hype of the first few weeks.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Amastat I did listen to it but it sounds like your the one not listening. My question is what the popular ship/fight style people will be using. Factional warfare can't be won - I know that, only titled my thread that way for effect - I'll suppose I'll change that for you, officer. How are you going to ask a question about what people are going to be using and how they are going to be using it when you dont have all the details of the fight? That to me is pointless and sounds like someone can't think for themselves. Not to mention no one is going to plan for something they dont know anything about yet. The funny thing is that nanohacs,last i heard were rather expensive to put together. A lot of people will likely never have pvped before so spending that kind of isk will be pointless as they will likely get shaken up and get themselves killed. also nanohacs never seemed to mean much against a gate camp. you might as well ask what type of ammo people are going to use, it makes as much sense and means just as much.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:20:00 - [18] Why don't you wait for the release and not post wild speculations?
dojocan81 Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Amastat Now arises a new and important question - how will this be fought? How will it be fought ,in terms of what we are actually going to see on the battlefield; what kind of ships that people will be using? "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVagas 2x NanoIshtars vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVagas 2x NanoIshtars i think i hit the jackpot ....
NeoNeTiC Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:32:00 - [20] Ok, that does it. RANT-MODE: ON. OP, you're trying to discuss things that are not even final. Factional Warfare itself won't change the current flavour of the month (or year), unless CCP nerfs/boost something for completely different reasons. All this hype and talk about things that are not even live yet is so annoying. Everyone shouts out "OMG, IZ LIEK DIZ BECUZ DA CCPz MAEK DA FAKTIUNAL WARFAIR AND I KNUWZ ALL 'BOUT IT!11!!" without even knowing precisely what makes it into factional warfare and what not, nor having any numbers/data at hand. It's wild speculation and pretty bad one at that. The most precise prediction of Factional Warfare I can give right now is: I think people will fly ships with warp-disruptors, turrets, drones, neuts/nos and sometimes even missile launchers. And they'll shoot other people. No mention of a nano-nerf yet, trend continues. Now go play the game in the present and not in the possible future. Rant-mode: off. Have a wonderful day, NeoNeTiC [MORTS]-Realist
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Na'hkin Oaks I think the punisher will be a favourite t1 frigate closely followed by the rifter. t2 frigate will be crow/ishkur/blaster ranis t1 cruiser will be vexor/rupture t2 cruiser will be rapier/tanked ishtar/vagabong imo Don't forget stealth bombers, you can bet those will be popular. I'm personally interested to see how much faction ships will be used. The tech level limit on some complexes might make them decently popular.

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