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Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:05:00 - [1] Hi, as some of you might have noticed, I'm trying to figure out what to do. I've been too busy for playing EVE the last half year. So each time I've logged in, I've got a giant stack of mails with updates and new missions. I've done this work manually up till now, but I feel that the site and it's popularity has grown a bit beyond that point now. I had to make a decision. Pretty fed up with everything, I canceled my account. In other words, I 'just quit'. But I've given it a thought. And after some feedback, a lot of mails, and a "few" beers, I feel I can't just give up the guide. There has been too many that have helped out making this guide what it is today. So instead I'll try to organize an effort to upgrade the guide. The primary goal is to have an updated guide even though I take a longer break. I know there are a lot of people out there that are good at web design, some have server space to offer, others will work day and night to help out in any way they can. But the main issue is to combine it all. I'm no web-guru myself (as you can see from the simple code) so I have to "outsource" it. I've opened a channel in eve for ideas and suggestions, called Eve-survival. But as this may take I while, I'm going to do some small changes to how it's updated: First of all, I'll update the site with all the mails currently in my inbox. Then I'll make a thread in a forum for people to post new missions and one thread for updates to missions already on the page. This way I'll hope I can reduce the amount of work I have to do for each update. And perhaps others can help publishing the new missions. So again, please do not mail me any updates or new missions, as I might have them in my inbox already. Sorry for the inconvenience! Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:19:00 - [2] Hi, I'd like to thank you for the work you have done so far, must've taken ages and lots of dedication to test all the missions for aggr/triggers/new spawns and all. I'd also like to say that the vast majority of the missions are up to date, or at least haven't been changed in any patches, so most of the guide is perfectly fine. There are some things, like missions I've never seen, but they were usually lvl 1 or 2, didn't encounter any new or changed lvl 3/4 missions, except for New frontiers which had its scrammers removed after numerous ppl lost various battleships to that mission. In my opinion, the guide is fine right now and does not necessarily need a huge overhaul.
Fist1	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:32:00 - [3] I agree with Hanneshannes. just a few updates on the new missions and it will be good to go. oh, and how much beer do I need to send you to have lvl 5 missions added?
Contralto Federal Research Labs	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:54:00 - [4] I rely on the guide and there isn't anything out there that can match it. Great to see you back Chepe, if you dont plan to be active in Eve in the Future my guess is you will be forking out your own cash to keep the account active? How about we make contributions to a fund to enable you to keep the account alive using GTC's. I will gladly start it off with 10 mill isk. if you agree I will just transfer to Chepe's wallet.
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:10:00 - [5] Thanks for the guide. :) I could suggest a small number of changes, but I'll leave them, as they are only cosmetic and dont really add much value. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:48:00 - [6] The guide should be ok for most of the runners. I've got a few mails about level 1 and 2 missions that needs to be added. But what is taking time is all the randomness. Figuring out triggers, aggro, spawns and so on. That is causing most of the mails in my eve-mail atm. So a forum thread (and later a comment section) would probably reduce that buzz quite a bit. So no, the guides may not need an overhaul, but the reporting system needs a giant one. What is really killing me, is all the newbies that move to level 3 and 4 too fast. A couple of years ago, everybody knew that Mercenary Wingmen did web and scramble. I didn't need to add web/scramblers to the guide as they were pretty obvious and/or well known. Now, people are losing battleships left, right and center to them. Just because the guide didn't mention them. That is causing a lot of mails. Then there are mails that says "The Mercenary Wingmen in mission x didn't scramble". Sometimes I wonder if I should start teaching classes like "Missions 101" as nobody seems to read the guide about ship types. So as you can see, it's not the money that is stopping me, but the lack of time. One month, paid with the 3 month plan, is like one or two beers when going out in Oslo, Norway. (Yeah, the beer is expensive here). So what I'm hoping is that someone can help me out with the time, in a manner that I know the guide will keep it's quality. Then maybe we can include level 5's and even the new faction missions that comes this summer. I have a few ideas, but I lack the knowledge and the time to put them into production. Right now I'm just considering to simplify the pages a bit. Perhaps remove some of the non-essential info, plus compressing a few parts. But that might ruin the day for some of you. Examples are structures that drop non-faction loot, number of mineable roids in non-mining missions, and mission gear (Might just do "Suggested ships: Raven, Golem, Ibis"). But as I said, it's just thoughts. Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:04:00 - [7] I would say, if it scrambled once, or is named the same as one that is known to scramble in differentm missions, just mark it as a scrambler. I've had mssions where I've never been scrambled, and missions where I've been scrambled multiple times. Sometimes a mission will do it, other times it wont. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
Xi Mishikani	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:12:00 - [8] Edited by: Xi Mishikani on 18/05/2008 23:14:33 Indeed, losing your guide could potentially damage the PvE aspect of EVE considerably. It was a shocking blow when I saw the words "I Quit!" when I first loaded up the page the other day. Anyways, as up-to-date/accurate as the guide is, I have developed my own guide of sorts via EFT profiles. What I do is, if I encounter a mission I've never done before, I look it up on your guide or any of the others that are available (ie. EVE-Info and Battleclinic) just for a general idea of what to expect. If there's an actual list of mission rats with names, I manually look up the damage aspects of it through Grismar's Rat DB and the elfarto NPC DB for if the rat uses missiles. I then calculate the total DPS of the mission itself, and put the numbers into a mission-specific EFT profile. If I encounter any rats that are different, I then make my own rat-list and start the DPS calculations over again. Each new one takes a few minutes to create, but it only needs to be done ONCE. [color=green]Perhaps if someone made a database where one could upload their EFT profiles for others to use, maybe you could officially call it quits without any complaints from either party.[/color] The only drawback of EFT profiles compared to your mission guides, is that the profiles only deal with damage done to your ship. Which means that you may have a kick-ass tank on your ship, but the tank is useless if you don't know what to hit the aggressor with. People that fly missile-boats (ie. Caldari pilots) don't really have that problem because they have only 4 choices to make, however people like me that use projectile turrets, you have the maximum number of 8 choices to make and then sub-choices about which of the ammo types would be most effective. Your guides give suggestions about damage types to use, EFT profiles do not. Although there are general rules to which you should use, there are some exceptions to them. A perfect example would be the Level 4 Enemies Abound - Part 5 mission. You fight nothing but Republic Fleet, and general rules say you should use Explosive damage. However, some of the ships you encounter are susceptible to explosive, some are most weak against thermal. The problem with EXP-weak ships, is that thermal is usually the 2nd highest resist which means you'll do very little damage to them when you've been melting ships that have been weak to thermal. The same goes with TH-weak ships which have EXP as the highest or 2nd highest resist. The complexities of which damage-type to use for EA5 can literally kill you, because if you DO NOT kill each wave fast enough, that mission has the potential to throw over 3000dps at you and no amount of warping-out and warping-in will save you as the waves are on a timer and they all aggro you on sight. Not only that, but it should also be noted that Republic Fleet primarily use Explosive and Kinetic damage, which would make one believe that a shield-tank would be ideal, which is true. Most of the EA5 ships are easily dealt with using Thermal, but the Explosive-weak ships fire high-damage EM torpedoes at you which is the bane of any shield-tanker, so being able to take them out ASAP will save you a lot of sweat, and a lot of isk in trying to replace your battleship. Anyways, I didn't mean to write a novel but I don't think it's a complete waste of time to read.
Mik Nostrebor Minmatar Cardinal Foundation	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:50:00 - [9] Another thought might be to set up your guide as a wikki and appoint a few people to administer which submissions make it to publication. Wiki's automatically manage new submissions and send mail to notify admins that new submissions have been received. See Wikipedia for more info on wiki's. Now I am not completely sure but there should be a way for a Wiki to provide a simplified HTML output suitable for the IGB. At least something that could be used to read mission info, even if not allowing user to submit changes. Not sure about that. Admins would be necessary to add new missions and remove old missions as updates and releases are made by CCP. Also with the advent of factional warfare, other content (like complexes) could be added. I guess if that happened then the mythical COSMOS missions could be mapped? As a final note, I am a web dev and do have webspace available though I am have not personally administered a Wiki myself. I would be happy to set one up for you using the existing Eve-Survival mission info but would want to hand it over to an admin group to manage once it is up and running. Contact me if you think this might be of interest. kim.j.robertson at gmail.com AUSSIE AND KIWI EVE Fansite
Rainhailer Gallente Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.05.19 02:15:00 - [10] A wiki site that could work with the IGB would be a fantastic solution.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:38:00 - [11] Yea thanks Chepe, you have my carebear seal of approval. Don't outsource overseas! Maybe you can convince ccp to run your site? Click here for my High Security POS Service
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 10:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Newbear Yea thanks Chepe, you have my carebear seal of approval. Don't outsource overseas! Maybe you can convince ccp to run your site? Giving out the small surprises they try to make in every update? I don't think they want to do that ;) Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:35:00 - [13] Edited by: Chepe Nolon on 19/05/2008 11:35:24 As for the wiki-solution suggested: Yes, I've thought about using a wiki, and it's been the most suggested solution so far. Grismar has already a working in-game wiki. I really like wiki, but.. there is always a but or two: If restricted to a few approved moderators: We still have to find a way of submitting I have to find a few dedicated moderators/editors to trust. There will still be a lot of noise regarding updates etc If done in the real wiki-spirit: We have to find a few dedicated janitors that I can trust. The quality of what people submit is really varied. I'm getting reports without capital letters, lack of spelling and even in txt-spk. So the janitors have to be online and ready 24/7 moderating all the submissions to keep up the quality. One alternative presented to me earlier: For new missions: Web form connected to the IGB (for security). The report then needs approval from an admin/editor. Maybe to correct some spellings etc For comments/updates: A comment section below each report which is moderated by admin/editor/moderator. The outcome of the discussion can then be added to the report by an admin or editor. It might sound like a hassle, but I'm sure that it isn't much work if I only can get a forum/comment section where the disputes discussed before added, and not after. And especially if more people can help out editing the reports, it will be almost no work. Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
Zara Skyray Caldari Novus Satus	Posted - 2008.05.19 15:24:00 - [14] I would suggest a 2-part solution. One is to create a wiki with 1 page dedicated to each mission that anyone can modify. This should only be accessible out-of-game. As you've mentioned, some people are going to misspell and post in bizarre ways, but given the number of people that use the guide, there should be enough good grammarians to sort out the mess and make the material presentable. That is the beauty of a wiki after all. Then, every 1 week or so, an admin should copy/paste all of the updated info from the wiki into the actual in-game pages - taking time to make any necessary edits at the same time. While this adds an extra level of work, it would ensure that the actual in-game guides will remain readable and more-or-less accurate, since new information would have time to "brew" a bit before making its way in-game.
Ghengis Tia Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.19 15:26:00 - [15] Much thanks for all your hard work, I am amazed at the intricate details I often see, e.g., how much of a certain asteroid is available for mining at a mission site. Can understand your burnout with all of this, given the demanding attitude of a lot of players. You are a true citizen of EVE!
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 16:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Zara Skyray I would suggest a 2-part solution. One is to create a wiki with 1 page dedicated to each mission that anyone can modify. This should only be accessible out-of-game. As you've mentioned, some people are going to misspell and post in bizarre ways, but given the number of people that use the guide, there should be enough good grammarians to sort out the mess and make the material presentable. That is the beauty of a wiki after all. Then, every 1 week or so, an admin should copy/paste all of the updated info from the wiki into the actual in-game pages - taking time to make any necessary edits at the same time. While this adds an extra level of work, it would ensure that the actual in-game guides will remain readable and more-or-less accurate, since new information would have time to "brew" a bit before making its way in-game. A very good idea indeed. I was just thinking I could try to make a wiki-based page, where people could try it out, reporting new missions and editing them. Then I could link to them from the guide. If it's a success, then I could convert the entire site into the wiki. If it's a failure, I could just copy the information gained already. In the worst case, someone had to report the missions again. Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
Cribb Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.05.22 23:25:00 - [17] I would like to thank you for your good work. If you ever need a good janitor, contact me ingame. I would be happy to help if needed. ------- When in doubt, play loud
Yoinx JET FORCE	Posted - 2008.05.23 18:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Chepe Nolon What is really killing me, is all the newbies that move to level 3 and 4 too fast. A couple of years ago, everybody knew that Mercenary Wingmen did web and scramble. I didn't need to add web/scramblers to the guide as they were pretty obvious and/or well known. Now, people are losing battleships left, right and center to them. Just because the guide didn't mention them. That is causing a lot of mails. Then there are mails that says "The Mercenary Wingmen in mission x didn't scramble". Sometimes I wonder if I should start teaching classes like "Missions 101" as nobody seems to read the guide about ship types. I dunno man... Maybe I'm just a heartless bastard. Maybe it's the beer.... Sometimes newbies need to lose a few ships to get the point that they are'nt ready to step up to the next level. I always thought of the guides as a guideline of what to expect not a script that you can follow step by step for success.... - I wish I had something witty to put in a signature. -
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Yoinx Originally by: Chepe Nolon What is really killing me, is all the newbies that move to level 3 and 4 too fast. A couple of years ago, everybody knew that Mercenary Wingmen did web and scramble. I didn't need to add web/scramblers to the guide as they were pretty obvious and/or well known. Now, people are losing battleships left, right and center to them. Just because the guide didn't mention them. That is causing a lot of mails. Then there are mails that says "The Mercenary Wingmen in mission x didn't scramble". Sometimes I wonder if I should start teaching classes like "Missions 101" as nobody seems to read the guide about ship types. I dunno man... Maybe I'm just a heartless bastard. Maybe it's the beer.... Sometimes newbies need to lose a few ships to get the point that they are'nt ready to step up to the next level. I always thought of the guides as a guideline of what to expect not a script that you can follow step by step for success.... Yeha, it sees to be the best way to learn. I've told countless ppl to wait and work on skills and wait till they can use this and that T2 module or rigs, but no, let's do a lvl 4 mission in our unrigged T1 fitted drake while we don't even have enough ISK to insure the thing, then come crying about missions being too hard :S
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.27 00:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Chepe Nolon Edited by: Chepe Nolon on 19/05/2008 22:05:17 Originally by: Zara Skyray I would suggest a 2-part solution. One is to create a wiki with 1 page dedicated to each mission that anyone can modify. This should only be accessible out-of-game. As you've mentioned, some people are going to misspell and post in bizarre ways, but given the number of people that use the guide, there should be enough good grammarians to sort out the mess and make the material presentable. That is the beauty of a wiki after all. Then, every 1 week or so, an admin should copy/paste all of the updated info from the wiki into the actual in-game pages - taking time to make any necessary edits at the same time. While this adds an extra level of work, it would ensure that the actual in-game guides will remain readable and more-or-less accurate, since new information would have time to "brew" a bit before making its way in-game. A very good idea indeed. I was just thinking I could try to make a wiki-based page, where people could try it out, reporting new missions and editing them. Then I could link to them from the guide. If it's a success, then I could convert the entire site into the wiki. If it's a failure, I could just copy the information gained already. In the worst case, someone had to report the missions again. Edit: I'm currently trying out a wiki-based package. And it's really great! I "fear" wiki might be the fastest and easiest solution. I strongly suggest you set it up so that only registered users can edit an entry. You know how some Eve players can be... We'll have noobs warping into Blood Raider missions tanked for Serpentis :o -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.05.28 11:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Rooker I strongly suggest you set it up so that only registered users can edit an entry. You know how some Eve players can be... We'll have noobs warping into Blood Raider missions tanked for Serpentis :o I've opened for everyone with a small group of janitors ready. Though you have to have an invitational code to get registered. The code is not hard to get, it's just a way of limiting it to eve-users. New missions reported will not be linked from the main page before a janitor has checked it and linked it. Right now everyone is busy converting, but when we're done with that, we'll quality check the guide, and the janitors can start focusing on checking edits done. As for wrong information: I discovered today that I've got an old report about cargo delivery level 4 for sansha containing blood raider ships and a warning about NOS! So it's possible even for me ;) to screw up. Of course, if there are 100 persons in a corp that decides to destroy the guide, I have to reconsider. But until then I'm trusting the community to keep the bad guys under control by keeping the guide correct. (Though if it should happen that I got a havoc in the guide, I'll lock down registering, delete all the accounts, and use a tool that mass rollbacks every document in the guide.) Anyway, right now we're getting the guide up to a good standard, so it should be easier converting/importing later if we decide to go for another system. Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
SturmTurm	Posted - 2008.05.29 08:31:00 - [22] Hi Nolon, Eve-survival IS gold. It is generally considered the best guide in game. Keep up the good work ... Regards
Byron Squared	Posted - 2008.05.29 16:28:00 - [23] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Eve-survival is a god send. Thank you again. Your work is much appreciated. How do we get the code to edit? mail you in game? Any way that doesn't fill up your mailbox again?
Jenni Concarnadine	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:25:00 - [24] May I just add my voice to those thanking you for a most excellent (and, more important, in game) resource. To say that it has saved my life is an understatement -- it allows one quickly to identify those missions where you have no chance of survival, and get the frod out before the sky falls in. Long may you prosper. Jenni C Pod-pilot noob * * * * * Hamsters don't overload very well
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.05.31 07:44:00 - [25] Dear Chepe eve-survival is main source of info missions for long time and i linked every new mission runner for more than one year awesome job thank you again.
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.06.01 19:08:00 - [26] A milestone has been reached today, as we've completely converted the guide into a wiki. I must send out a big Thank You to all of you that has contributed to the guide, the conversion and for encouraging me to keep going. The old /missions/ link is redirected to the new wiki-page containing the index. Right now we're quality checking the guide, cleaning and updating the guides. This will be an everlasting and time consuming task, but it's fun. For those of you that want to register, I'm pointing to the main page of the site. But a hint is to join the channel eve-survival ingame. As the motd contains the invite code. (It will change now and then). I also urge you to join the channel for discussion about the guide. If there are info that should be updated, and how to do it. For general mission talk, the channel lvl4 is everything you need! :) Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
MadMaxHellfire	Posted - 2008.06.01 20:09:00 - [27] will i still be able to copy the whole site and mirror it easily as before? -
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.06.02 11:57:00 - [28] Originally by: MadMaxHellfire will i still be able to copy the whole site and mirror it easily as before? TBH, I don't know. It's generated pages, though without too much client-side scripts. Modern spiders might do it easily. I'll look into it myself, especially since I need some kind of backup. Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
Stephen HB Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2008.06.02 13:40:00 - [29] Just noticed this thread and wanted to add my appreciation of this amazing resource. I haven't been missioning for a few weeks or I would have noticed the changes on the site Unfortunately the host was down when I went to try it . I wish you the best of breaks Chepe, we'll be waiting for you. ---------- Character creation guide. Originally by: Adonis 4174 You killed him to annoy him. He self-destructed to annoy you. You're annoyed thus he wins.
Chepe Nolon New Order Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 10:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Stephen HB Just noticed this thread and wanted to add my appreciation of this amazing resource. I haven't been missioning for a few weeks or I would have noticed the changes on the site Unfortunately the host was down when I went to try it . Yes, I'm very sorry for this, but I haven't got any words from the host yet. So I hope you all survive using the old guides. They are linked at the main page. Though, isn't it typical? Just when we were finished converting, the server went haywire. Quote: I wish you the best of breaks Chepe, we'll be waiting for you. I hope the wiki (when it gets back on line) will make the guide a bit less dependent of me. There are many volunteers that have put a lot of effort in helping me converting the guide. And they are eager keeping it up to standards, and up to date. So I hope I can return from longer breaks without 100+ mails in my eve-mail. Safe travels! Chepe Nolon -- \|Guides for Mission runners\|Kill Mission Survival Guides\|
MadMaxHellfire	Posted - 2008.06.09 13:18:00 - [31] news? -
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.09 14:52:00 - [32] Yup, everything seems to be up, all was converted to wiki last I checked. Awesome work Chepe. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
William Alex Viscosity space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.06.09 18:52:00 - [33] So what's the site address?
Lotat Rubbal	Posted - 2008.06.12 12:12:00 - [34] I too give thanks for the guide.. Unfortunately I have to use the old one.. The ultra white background on the new one plays hell with my eyes.. At least the old one has a grey background..
MadMaxHellfire	Posted - 2008.06.20 14:17:00 - [35] i need help here, because now instead of a few hundreds eve survival consists of more than 5000 files which take me several minutes to backup (not an issue) and several hours to upload (definitely an issue) if you're still interested in having this backup/mirror site i could use a hand, or at least some suggestions ^^' otherwise i'm forced to go back to my "i'll update when i feel like to" attitude :/ -
ginlaaan Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2008.06.22 13:32:00 - [36] Site has been down for some time it seems for me since wiki update. Is there a mirror available? --Ginlaaan--
MadMaxHellfire	Posted - 2008.06.24 15:47:00 - [37] Edited by: MadMaxHellfire on 24/06/2008 15:47:28 http://www.donkeyisland.org/evesurvival/ but don't count on me updating it anytime soon -

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