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What happened to the glory days of HACs?

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Squatdog Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:46:00 - [31] Try fighting a gang with ECM without a falcon/rook of your own. Hello FoF missiles and Drones! Also, ECM is chance-based and an ECM boat can be blobbed while a nanoboat will simply slip out of range and warp.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Squatdog Edited by: Squatdog on 20/05/2008 11:41:38 *(a) Nanoships (cruiser-sized) are fairly easy to hit with cruiser-sized weapons.* LOL...no they aren't. Heavy Missiles/HACs won't do jack and turrets will have a really hard time doing appreciable damage without tracking mods. You seem to be confusing Signiture Radius with Target Velocity Heavy missiles, no. Missiles suck for shooting fast targets, we all know that. Medium sized turrets hit them just fine, but your line "You seem to be confusing Signiture Radius with Target Velocity" leads me to believe that you don't have a CLUE about tracking. Originally by: Squatdog *Nanoships are far from impossible to catch; in the 150M price region, only the Vagabond is fast enough to be a serious challenge to catch.* A typical nano-boat can easily do over 3000ms with decent skills and T2 fittings, then overload to 4500 or so. How is a typical gang going to catch them when they only have to slip out of scram range to warp? Interceptors get pelted or (even worse) neuted and insta-popped Erm, it's quite easy (in gang settings) to catch and web a 3km/s ship. Overload works in favour of the attacker most of the time... given it works on next activation. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ahmadiyya	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Squatdog Try fighting a gang with ECM without a falcon/rook of your own. Hello FoF missiles and Drones! Also, ECM is chance-based and an ECM boat can be blobbed while a nanoboat will simply slip out of range and warp. fof missiles + drones on a 200km away falcon... best anti ecm is ecm damp, or vagabonds :P
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.20 11:51:00 - [34] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/05/2008 11:52:02 Originally by: Squatdog Try fighting a gang with ECM without a falcon/rook of your own. Hello FoF missiles and Drones! Also, ECM is chance-based and an ECM boat can be blobbed while a nanoboat will simply slip out of range and warp. Yes, I'll load my 220mm AC IIs with FOF missiles and turn on the FOF scrambler and FOF web and.... oh, ok. Do we have someone flying in Drake blobs or what? Anyway, you seem to be whining about the fact that nanoships you can't blob to hell to kill them as they'll start running away... so that's your issue, your blob doesn't work? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Squatdog Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:08:00 - [35] Medium sized turrets hit them just fine, but your line "You seem to be confusing Signiture Radius with Target Velocity" leads me to believe that you don't have a CLUE about tracking. No they don't. Please be more creative with your misinformaton. *Erm, it's quite easy (in gang settings) to catch and web a 3km/s ship.* LOL...riiight. Yes, it's really easy to close the distance on a faster ship orbiting at 20km when they only need to doubleclick in space and jet 4km to escape. Yes, I'll load my 220mm AC IIs with FOF missiles and turn on the FOF scrambler and FOF web and.... oh, ok. Do we have someone flying in Drake blobs or what? You'll run out of range and escape and there is NOTHING the ECM-boat pilot can do about it. Anyway, you seem to be whining about the fact that nanoships you can't blob to hell to kill them as they'll start running away... so that's your issue, your blob doesn't work? It's because they're practically impossible to catch regardless of whether you're solo, in a small gang or in a gigantic bs blob [yellow]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigato
Sin Stylejr	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:18:00 - [36] People will have to reskill if nanos are nerfed? small gang warfare will be gone ? Bring back the nanophoon so we can have solo pvp again lol. This is the line of thinking so why not? I dont think ALL nanoships should be revamped. As a whole it needs to be brought down a notch leaving the ability to escape available but not a 100% all the time option. Ships like vagas and intys are meant to go fast. Ishtars are not. nanoishtars are the perfect example of broken. It is just as broken as the nanophoon and nanodomi. Its not meant to work that way and should be addressed. So i say if your gona leave nanos in i say leave them all in. Bring the nanophoon and nanodomi back.
Neutrino Sunset KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:20:00 - [37] Originally by: "Derek Sigres" Polycarbs are indeed very good at what they do. While the rigs are in high demand and supplies of the components are very low (I myself have salavaged no more than a dozen Alloyed Tritanium Bars), their high cost is well offset by imparting a high degree of survivability on certain ships. Just to squeeze one of my own favourite rants into this discussion. Cost is also utterly offset by CCP choosing to sell isk for RL cash to rich players who would rather buy their way ahead in the game rather than play their way ahead.
Euriti Gallente Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:27:00 - [38] Edited by: Euriti on 20/05/2008 12:28:38 Edited by: Euriti on 20/05/2008 12:28:16 Edited by: Euriti on 20/05/2008 12:28:00 Originally by: Sin Stylejr Ships like vagas and intys are meant to go fast. Ishtars are not. nanoishtars are the perfect example of broken. It is just as broken as the nanophoon and nanodomi. Its not meant to work that way and should be addressed. Non-nano'd Ishtar is broken /thread. It has 5, 5 god damned low slots to tank, no tanking bonus, a bonus to medium guns which it can't fit in conjuction with double rep tank which is what you fit if you dont nano it. CPU and grid problems too. Utterly broken.
Squatdog Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:30:00 - [39] Bring back the dual-MWD Raven and the 7-stacking magnetic field Megathron! There were plenty of counters for them and they weren't imbalanced in the least!
Danny Centurai hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:31:00 - [40] Branko is 100% right there is no issue fighing any ship type as long as you fly a balanced gang. The Falcon sits at 200km jamming if a vagabond comes flying out towards his falcon pilot simply jams him. Rapier friend in gang warps to the falcon thats probally being bumped by vaga at this point as it can do nothing else. Rapier webs vaga and the falcon and rapier kill vaga. If more reds appear near vaga falcon just warps rapier runs. Fighting against ECM requires ECM or sacrificing slots to ECCM but people aren't really willing to do that. ECM is chancebased yes but with 2 jammers at 12 strengh each the odds are in your favor to overcome that 18 sensor strength. You want to test what Branko means take a few guys to Tama You will see exactly what I mean.
Trigos Trilobi X-Fire	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:32:00 - [41] Originally by: Squatdog Medium sized turrets hit them just fine, but your line "You seem to be confusing Signiture Radius with Target Velocity" leads me to believe that you don't have a CLUE about tracking. No they don't. Please be more creative with your misinformaton. So a vagabond with medium sized weapons can hit its target just fine, but the target with similar tracking weapons for some magical reason can't hit back? Just FYI, even some bs sized turrets can hit nanocruisers well enough to hurt. Maybe you should take your own advice and instead of spewing misinformation actually try these things out or atleast spend a few minutes toying around with the tracking guide so your blatant lack of knowledge/experience doesn't totally undermine any weight your arguments might otherwise have? As from personal experience, the things I dislike tackling in my vaga include such things as zealots and hurricanes for example, along with drakes and cerbs, and that's not because I couldn't handle their low/non-existant drone damage. And you don't even want to hear how the testing against a friend's anti-nano eagle fit went.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.20 12:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Squatdog Medium sized turrets hit them just fine, but your line "You seem to be confusing Signiture Radius with Target Velocity" leads me to believe that you don't have a CLUE about tracking. No they don't. Please be more creative with your misinformaton. Medium sized turrets hit them (tracking-wise) just fine, as any pulse or AC user can tell you. Tracking guide, the friend of the utterly clueless. Use it. Originally by: Squatdog *Erm, it's quite easy (in gang settings) to catch and web a 3km/s ship.* LOL...riiight. Yes, it's really easy to close the distance on a faster ship orbiting at 20km when they only need to doubleclick in space and jet 4km to escape. Hint: don't all stay bunched at one point. It's exceedingly hard to mantain 20km range towards a number of ships at the same time, particularly given that your average cruiser goes 2km/s overheated, meaning it's a very easy maneuver to intercept their orbit and melt away. I've killed 3km/s ships in a Hurricane in gang settings fairly often, it's fairly easy if they're orbiting something else. Originally by: Squatdog You'll run out of range and escape and there is NOTHING the ECM-boat pilot can do about it. You know, falcons/rooks are typically flown in a gang. If your gang does not have counter-jamming, you're in trouble. It's all (along with Huggins/etc) a part of a well-rounded gang. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Andreask14 Raptus Regaliter Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:01:00 - [43] Edited by: Andreask14 on 20/05/2008 13:02:16 Glory days They'll pass you by, glory days In the wink of a young girl's eye, glory days Glory days You just need to stop worrying and love the blob. Sig offline
P'uck	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:13:00 - [44] iirc when we got the hp boost t1 ships were increased by 50% HP, but the t2 ships only got 25 or 16 % or something. it seemed like a good idea to me back then but im not sure if i still think that way.
Polkageist Minmatar The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.20 13:15:00 - [45] i understand what a nanoship is, but a nano-fag? and nanofaggotry and what its called, what does that mean? /polka
Arkanjuca Caldari R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2008.05.21 07:09:00 - [46] i remember the days where the deimos was the best hac, ishtar and sacrilege the worse... look how this game changes a lot ps.: i just want the assault ships to be fixed tbqh -- Whatever works for you...
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.05.21 08:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Depp Knight There isnt just one thing, it was a lot of things, the new ceptor roles and stab nerf being some of the biggest.I remember back in the days that if my ceptor went 5k/s I was really going fast. But now that your -1 scrams dont use the normal 15cap per 5 secs or whatever, ceptors are now purely speed fitting it. They dont need cpr's to hold their scram. Prior to this stabs were nerf. This meant that 7.5km scrams were neglected and still are. Sometimes ceptors needed -2 scrams to combat stabs. This meant that it can get pretty damn nasty if a ceptor goes up against a hac. Now you have ceptors going over 10k's. Infact if you are not going that speed, then why are you flying a ceptor. That means that sniping ships like the muninn, and the eagle are neglected. Before it would take 20 to 35 secs to reach the sniping eagle (and you would need to get some serious transversal to avoid getting hit), but now it is taking about 10 to 15 secs. So sniping hacs have been taken out from the game somewhat. Now you have ships going so fast that fitting, arty's, beams, or rails are sorta pointless. You just cannot hit fast ships with them. So now you are relying on falloff and 20km skirmishes. Which means, you need speed, or huge tank. But then you have neuts and nos. draining you at 24km distance. The way to combat that was to get out of range, which means nano's. Tank is not an option, you just dont have the cap to fight. In short,I am not here to say that nano's and od's have ruined the game. The game is just different, and although it does help many aspects of the game, like small gangs, it also neglects other aspects of the game. If nanos and ods were removed for the game, it would mean the end of small gang skirmishes. Is that a huge deal? Yes, the game then would change and become 'different' once again, but that doesnt mean it would become bad. This. Nanofagottry is hurting solo pvp by removing adrenaline. I want a pvp that HURT, and make my heart pumping when I commit my ship to a fight. I want a game where it's kill or be killed, not kill or run away. ------------------------------------------
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.05.21 10:08:00 - [48] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 21/05/2008 10:10:15 too many lazy babies are crying about nanoing because they cant get them lolz its their own fault everyone nano, dont blob, no one will nano too dumb to set up an anti nano gang? cruise ravens with t2 launcher, neuts, shield transfers using precisions + explosion velocity rigs with a few gallente recons will hurt them alot. also there are minmatar recons too. lazy crybabies, with no effort you get nothing. do something or leave and go to lazytown
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.05.21 10:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 21/05/2008 10:10:15 too many lazy babies are crying about nanoing because they cant get them lolz its their own fault everyone nano, dont blob, no one will nano too dumb to set up an anti nano gang? cruise ravens with t2 launcher, neuts, shield transfers using precisions + explosion velocity rigs with a few gallente recons will hurt them alot. also there are minmatar recons too. Rofl, nobody will nano if there are no blobs... Everyone will nano anyway because it¦s less risk and faster to move around (means you catch more targets).
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.05.21 11:13:00 - [50] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 21/05/2008 11:14:12 so no one will catch anyone until they engage a decent anti nano gang. sounds fair to me to be able to counter. I also could say, spider tank bs gangs are too powerful because a not organized mixxed gang will loose to it. same issue. We have lazy crybabies that did not prepared well and engaged the bs gang and lost. then they will cry in forums cause they suck and are lazy, and whine until it is changed to make it easier for them. and even when it will be changed, the lazy crybabies will still find something they can whine about because it is "not fair" that someone have used valid counter tactics lolz.
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.05.21 11:21:00 - [51] Edited by: Ambien Torca on 21/05/2008 11:21:50 Spider tanking with BS being powerful is partially because often in EVE fights happen in border zones where you can "abuse" the fact that you can move to next room before your hp buffer is overcome. HP boost didn¦t help the game in this matter IMO. Also there are some ******** 0.0 systems that connect directly to highsec, giving such people complete safety after jump. Amount of gate hugging and station hugging going on in lowsec and in some 0.0 spots is rather disheartening. And yet, these people are still taking a bit of risk, sometimes game bugs and won¦t let you jump or something. People avoid risks at all costs because it makes sense so it¦s not a surprise.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.05.21 11:23:00 - [52] Originally by: Ambien Torca Spider tanking with BS being powerful is partially because often in EVE fights happen in border zones where you can "abuse" the fact that you can move to next room before your hp buffer is overcome. HP boost didn¦t help the game in this matter IMO. Amount of gate hugging and station hugging going on in lowsec and in some 0.0 spots is rather disheartening. And yet, these people are still taking a bit of risk, sometimes game bugs and won¦t let you jump or something. People avoid risks at all costs because it makes sense so it¦s not a surprise. and your point is? there is no real point, you can easily counter spider tanking with some working braincells.
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.05.21 11:29:00 - [53] Point is that EVE pvp is pretty terrible when you start looking into it, amrite?
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.05.21 11:41:00 - [54] Originally by: Ambien Torca Point is that EVE pvp is pretty terrible when you start looking into it, amrite? only if you are lazy and dont use your braincells.
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.05.21 11:51:00 - [55] Nah, it¦s still terrible even if you do. Biggest problems being pvp at zoning areas with ships that have massive hp buffers and remote hp repairs en-masse. Second being ease of PVP avoidance (easy intel from local, only very few spesific ships that are good at interdiction, every ship can use cloak). And terrible lag in any bigger fights and even sometimes in smaller fights. No, EVE ain¦t even close to being a good pvp game. It¦s a decent griefing game tho.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.05.21 13:15:00 - [56] if you dont want them to jump/dock, bump them :)
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.05.21 13:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 21/05/2008 10:10:15 too many lazy babies are crying about nanoing because they cant get them lolz its their own fault everyone nano, dont blob, no one will nano too dumb to set up an anti nano gang? cruise ravens with t2 launcher, neuts, shield transfers using precisions + explosion velocity rigs with a few gallente recons will hurt them alot. also there are minmatar recons too. lazy crybabies, with no effort you get nothing. do something or leave and go to lazytown Cpt Cosmic, thou art stupid. Thrice here hast thou uttered nonsense. Thou art unlettered and hath never read of the term 'balancing' for, assuredly, but those few letters would require all day and the use of both of your pustulent forefingers. The very fact that thou canst breathe must be by the arts of some homunculi or hob, smarter than thou, who doth sit upon thy shoulder and whisper in thy ear, 'breathe in, breathe out' else surely thou wouldst cease in this vital activity for lack of thought. Canst thou walk and chew bubble gum at the same time it is asked and I cry 'Nay' for I have found you, face down, the bubble gum before you upon the ground as proof. Cpt Cosmic, thou art stupid. ------------------------------------------
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.05.21 14:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Shadowsword I am MEGAFAIL and have no arguments thats why I insult other people directly fixed it for you
Euriti Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.21 14:43:00 - [59] Originally by: Ambien Torca Edited by: Ambien Torca on 21/05/2008 11:28:42 Edited by: Ambien Torca on 21/05/2008 11:21:50 Spider tanking with BS being powerful is partially because often in EVE fights happen in border zones where you can "abuse" the fact that you can move to next room before your hp buffer is overcome. HP boost didn¦t help the game in this matter IMO. Also there are some ******** 0.0 systems that connect directly to highsec, giving such people complete safety after jump. Amount of gate hugging and station hugging going on in lowsec and in some 0.0 spots is rather disheartening. And yet, these people are still taking a bit of risk, sometimes game bugs and won¦t let you jump or something. People avoid risks at all costs because it makes sense so it¦s not a surprise. For antinano, problems are mostly that that best counters take a lot of training and are available to one race pretty exclusively. So pretty much everyone who pvps in 0.0 needs to train minmatar cruiser 4 / recon ships 4/5 as soon as they can. Even well setup anti-nano camp will kill only one or two of the hostile gang before others get away so there are barely any decisive engagements anymore, which is unsatisfying. Very often you see a gang that has been outscouted and maneuvered running straight into a trap and only lose one guy who happened to be slightly too slow with that mwd/cloak/align/cloak-off/warp trick. FIT GOD DAMN HEAVY NEUTS THEY WORK TOO! THE HACS WILL STOP DEAD IN THEIR TRACKS.
Naomi Wildfire Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.05.21 15:07:00 - [60] I love my armor tanked Zealot. Dont nano HACs and you have no probs with Web Range (as long as there are not many more damage dealers)

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