EVE Search - Ogres vs. Specialized T2 heavies : I don't believe it.

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Ogres vs. Specialized T2 heavies : I don't believe it.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Heliarc	Posted - 2008.05.22 02:53:00 - [1] Since as far back as I can remember, I've always used rat-specific T2 heavies when ratting. I've heard people claim that Ogre II's are across-the-board better because of the higher damage modifier. I've never tested this, but it just doesn't make much sense to me. Has anyone ever conclusively proven this? Ie, Ogre 2's beat Berserker II's for say, Angels?
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:01:00 - [2] Edited by: NoNah on 22/05/2008 03:02:51 Impossible to say since there's so many factors other than just raw dps. Such as tracking, tank and mobility. Normally you're best of using specific drones with the exception of amarr drones that happens to be the poor choice for both dps, mobility, tracking and tank. For berserkers and angel however there's no competition, the berserkers will outperform the ogres on nearly every single npc.
Heliarc	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:05:00 - [3] That's about what I figured. For rats with significant resist holes, the specialists have to win. I look forward to lording my awesomeness over my misinformed corpmates who are still busy trying to find reverse on their Domis.
Hait	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:07:00 - [4] Depends on the range - sentry drone V and sentry drones tech II will bet the heavys 'gainst Guristas for eg. Travel time. Against mercs who like to orbit in close - the heavys win out. Ogre 2's will not beat Beserker 2's against angels - the resists say no. Against Bloods 'nd Sansha's however - the thermal drones win out over Infiltrators and their kin.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Heliarc That's about what I figured. For rats with significant resist holes, the specialists have to win. I look forward to lording my awesomeness over my misinformed corpmates who are still busy trying to find reverse on their Domis. I challenge you to point out an npc where the amarr drones are actually better though. I've yet to find one. =)
Heliarc	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:12:00 - [6] True enough. I've never been in a position to try though. Always been in Guristas/Angel space using Wasp/Berserker.
Mr Friendly	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:32:00 - [7] Beserkers or Ogres. EM and Kin are pretty much useless for heavy drone use. Occasionally I have seen t2 kins kill a specific 'boss' npc quicker than either ogres or Beserks do. Those specific npcs are so rare, they might as well not be mentioned However, in terms of time/isk, a spec fitted (sentry rigged/drone tracking link) Domis/Ishtar can kill a mission/ratting belt quicker. However, it's still a bit hard to judge and you need t2 sentries to make up for it. Also, it's more of a playstyle shift than it is a clear cut advantage (which is good since it menas there's balance). T1 sentries don't come close to ogres damage or Beserker's speed. Overall, EM lol, kin basically useless unless you fight with sentries and the npcs stay in specific ranges to the drones.
Nomakai Delateriel Shadow Company	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:51:00 - [8] Ogres vs Praetors: Ogres win every time, no matter the enemy. Anything vulnerable to EM is also vulnerable to Thermal and the difference in damage modifier is just too great. Ogres vs Wasps: Ogres obviously win vs Sasha&Blooders. It's fairly even vs Guristas and Serpentis and the Wasps are superior against Angels. The damage modifier is quite similar and the improved speed and shielding of the wasps has its advantages. Ogres vs Berserkers: Berserkers win against Angels. Ogres take home the rest. They're just so different that the damage modifier doesn't really matter. Wasps vs Berserkers: Vs Angels Berserkers could take it home thanks to their greater speed. Against all other foes the Wasps win thanks to a higher damage modifer and more generic damage (anything vulnerable to explosive is vulnerable to Kinetic. Everything that is vulnerable to Kinetic isn't vulnerable to explosive). Praetors vs Berserkers: Why bother. Ogres beat Praetors any time of the day anyway and anything that is vulnerable to one of them is highly resistant to the other. When it comes to PvP there can always be extreme cases, but the mainstream setups leave little room for Praetors. Here the most common choices are either Ogres for all out damage or Berserkers for their relatively high speed and effectiveness against armor Omnitanks. In reality though the PvP choice is much more interesting with medium/light drones where the Warrior/Valkyrie IIs are a real competitor to the Hobgoblin/Hammerhead IIs (although on ships with the capability to field a flight of light and a flight of medium/heavy drones the choice of light drones is always Warrior IIs). ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.05.22 03:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Mr Friendly Beserkers or Ogres. EM and Kin are pretty much useless for heavy drone use. Occasionally I have seen t2 kins kill a specific 'boss' npc quicker than either ogres or Beserks do. Those specific npcs are so rare, they might as well not be mentioned However, in terms of time/isk, a spec fitted (sentry rigged/drone tracking link) Domis/Ishtar can kill a mission/ratting belt quicker. However, it's still a bit hard to judge and you need t2 sentries to make up for it. Also, it's more of a playstyle shift than it is a clear cut advantage (which is good since it menas there's balance). T1 sentries don't come close to ogres damage or Beserker's speed. Overall, EM lol, kin basically useless unless you fight with sentries and the npcs stay in specific ranges to the drones. Actually, when it comes to sentries, I don't agree. Wardens are exceptional for their very long range, gardes for their tracking and damage, but they all fill a role, and compensate for their range with tracking or damage. However light, medium and heavy droones... Wasps have nearly the same damage as Ogres(63 vs 57) and asteroid battleships have about 80% of the resist in thermal in kinetic. So you'd be dealing about 13% more damage with the Wasp II's than the ogres - on top of that they have better speed and tracking - and tank. Doing the same for Blood Raiders, Praetors and Ogres.. The Pratetors comes out with 46 dps, Ogres 63, once again 25% higher resists in thermal than EM(relation is 40/50/60/70 for EM/THERM/KIN/EXP) the Ogres will deal 9.5% more damage than the Praetors. Yes, they are slower(1050 vs 1425 (74%)), and thus have 33% better tracking, but much poorer tank. For pvp they're like berserkers but poorer in every way. Postcount: 227515
Mr Friendly	Posted - 2008.05.22 04:23:00 - [10] Originally by: NoNah Actually, when it comes to sentries, I don't agree. Wardens are exceptional for their very long range, gardes for their tracking and damage, but they all fill a role, and compensate for their range with tracking or damage. However light, medium and heavy droones... Wasps have nearly the same damage as Ogres(63 vs 57) and asteroid battleships have about 80% of the resist in thermal in kinetic. So you'd be dealing about 13% more damage with the Wasp II's than the ogres - on top of that they have better speed and tracking - and tank. Doing the same for Blood Raiders, Praetors and Ogres.. The Pratetors comes out with 46 dps, Ogres 63, once again 25% higher resists in thermal than EM(relation is 40/50/60/70 for EM/THERM/KIN/EXP) the Ogres will deal 9.5% more damage than the Praetors. Yes, they are slower(1050 vs 1425 (74%)), and thus have 33% better tracking, but much poorer tank. For pvp they're like berserkers but poorer in every way. I used to do detailed dps/time calcs for flying drones. I used to concern myself with flight time vs dps vs likelihood of drones wandering off target when they reached their max pursuit time. I used to.... Then I realized I'd spent more time to research the issue than I ever would save using the 'best' drone. Instead, I use ogres for max dps with npcs that cluster close to me, I use wasps for missions that have those pesky npcs that orbit 50 kms out and spread out (and use a nav computer to accentuate their speed), and use beserkers for angels. Or, I use wardens or gardes. Generally, missions: I end up using ogres, or wardens with the occasional beserker thrown in. ratting: ogres in friendly space, beserkers in ninja-ratting space. I just got tired of constantly min/maxing my strategy, I guess.
Pliauga Militek Industries	Posted - 2008.05.22 06:21:00 - [11] I did some math not too long ago (big excel spreadsheet), and as far as DPS goes: Gallente drones are best against Amarr related NPC (Sansha, Blood, Amarr navy etc.) Caldari drones are best against Caldari related NPC (Guristas, Mordus, Caldari navy etc.) Amarr drones are only usefull against rogue drones Minmatar drones are superior against angels. This does not take into account drone travel time, but since Gallente drones are allways slowest, I never use them for anything else, but Amarr related NPCs.
AKULA UrQuan Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.22 07:29:00 - [12] It's nice to be able to use all four types of T2 heavy drones. Granted there isn't much use for the amarr drones. When you are desperate for extra DPS mid fight scooping and releaseing that inactive Praetor II that was shooting you 10 seconds before can make a difference. Yes, people do sometimes brings those to PvP fights for some odd reason.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.05.22 08:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Pliauga I did some math not too long ago (big excel spreadsheet), and as far as DPS goes: Gallente drones are best against Amarr related NPC (Sansha, Blood, Amarr navy etc.) Caldari drones are best against Caldari related NPC (Guristas, Mordus, Caldari navy etc.) Amarr drones are only usefull against rogue drones Minmatar drones are superior against angels. This does not take into account drone travel time, but since Gallente drones are allways slowest, I never use them for anything else, but Amarr related NPCs. How do you figure that? Granted my database dump might not be up to date, but taking random ships from it from both rogue drones and blood they appear to have the same average resistances following the pattern of 40/50/60/70 in EM/THERM/KIN/EXP. If you have more accurate, please share. Postcount: 338856
Deviana Sevidon Panta-Rhei Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:06:00 - [14] In certain plexes, more specific damage drones are better then standard ogres. For example some true sansha spawns in exploration, were tanking thermal damage surprisingly well but melted fast when the praetors and infiltrators began their work. But aside from special uses in complexes, the Amarr Drones are not really worth it.
mama guru Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:07:00 - [15] Im sorry but amarr drones are useless Ogres or Zerkers all the way, Wasps actually outpreforms Ogres by a small margin against Gurista and other caldari type npc's however
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:26:00 - [16] Originally by: mama guru Im sorry but amarr drones are useless Not true, Curators are pretty good.
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.22 10:55:00 - [17] Curators are the way to go in blood/sansha missions without a doubt, even with 2 omni tracking mods gardes just dont have the range to kill the longrange battleships. But yes, this is probably the only case where amarr drones are "usefull" imho.
Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 11:19:00 - [18] Amarr Drones are pathetic... I've used some T2 mediums ratting Dark Bloods, simply because Hammerhead IIs were too expensive around the 0.0 stations, and I tend to be careless enough on-top of it. Their DPS is ridiculously low and better speed / tracking cannot make up for it. RP-wise, Amarr ships tend to have a big drone bay, along with dedicated drone ships. It's not realistic for them to boost the worst racial drones. Should speed/tracking and-or range boost improve things a bit with the same dmg output, I cannot say. I tend to use Minmatar drones when I want speed, and effective dmg is way better. EM resistances where "re-balanced", still unless you are going against a totally EM-soft, shield tanking ratting BS/BC or sth, I cannot imagine any uses for Amarr drones. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! Introduce HEAT EMMITERÖ for the Pilgrim
Ralara D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.22 11:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Ralara on 22/05/2008 11:22:32 Ahh the mixup is with ratting and missions I think. For mission runners, overall, Ogres / Hammerheads are "the best" if you're lazy - they're primary/secondary damage type of all rats except Angels and with a high damage modifier, you can more or less just keep them in your ship wtihout needing to change them. For ratting, if you're going to encounter a specific type of rat and no others, then the primary damage drone is the one you should use. Kinetic for Guristas and Serpentis , Explosive for Angels etc. The exception being the EM drones and sanshas/blood - use thermals, the EM drones are crap. --
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.05.22 11:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 22/05/2008 11:22:32 Ahh the mixup is with ratting and missions I think. For mission runners, overall, Ogres / Hammerheads are "the best" if you're lazy - they're primary/secondary damage type of all rats except Angels. And EoM. Quote: The exception being the EM drones and sanshas/blood - use thermals, the EM drones are crap. I tried a T1 tach curator Geddon once. Worked great.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:01:00 - [21] You can get a small advantage using specific drones in some cases but it's so small that I think most people just say screw it and use ogres. To me, if I want something fast I'll use meds, lights, or sentries anyway.

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.