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GTC change is NOT a rip off

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Angela Toren Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:48:00 - [1] The change was necessary because GTC's are actually loosing CCP money. Let me explain; - The majority of GTC cards are bought with dollars. - The doller is very weak at moment, e.g. it is not worth much against other currencies. - European people have now found that buying GTC/ETC with isk works out cheaper than say paying in Euros because firstly the majority of GTC's are bought with dollars, and secondly you avoid EU tax this way. When someone that should be or used to pay in euros changes their method and buys a 'dollar bought' GTC, CCP is actually loosing money. The revenue amount gets less and less as more people that should be paying in euros switch to GTC's that have been bought with weak dollars. - The solution is: By adjusting the cost and/or length of a GTC, the weak value of the dollar could be offset in a way that doesn't cause as much damage to CCP's revenue if loads of GTC are bought with dollars. In actual fact, ccp are not trying to rip people off by making you pay more for the same or less, they are simply guarding their revenue against the dollar and the popularity of the GTC via the dollar. At the end of the day the books have to balance or there will be no Eve. I think i'm right, if not feel free to flame me on a big roast bbq porkstick. _______ Oh Mindy...
Rorin Cutter KNIGHTS OF RYCHE	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:53:00 - [2] why should I pay more for playing this game then someone from the US? It's not only a rip off, its a bad business model in my opinion.
David Rouvenor	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:56:00 - [3] Quickly CCP announce that your letting carriers into highsec! that will divert attention from the GTC problem and stop anymore of these threads!
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:56:00 - [4] If so, then why doesn't CCP say so instead of saying it's to "streamline GTC sales" instead? SOE liked to lie to their customers, hide drastic changes, and soak them for money too. CCP needs to learn that this sort of behavior doesn't win you subscribers (SOE's lost more than half theirs). If they'd told the truth in the announcement there would be a lot less angst. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance.
Sertan Deras Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:57:00 - [5] No, it's a rip off. The dollar may be tanking, but it's not 35% tanking. This GTC change makes the cost of playing EVE go up 35%, and that's for people paying US dollars. I feel sorry for you suckers in Europe that have to pay with Eurobux, because CCP isn't going to adjust your cost down. They are simply going to convert US dollars to eurobux and tell you to go screw yourself if you don't like it.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Jack Gilligan If so, then why doesn't CCP say so instead of saying it's to "streamline GTC sales" instead? Because they fired Kieron. It's as simple as that, Kieron would have been up in arms if forced to post a lie and it's probably part of the reason he was fired and is now working at NCSoft. I'm not going to pass judgement on Wrangler (partly because such a message would be deleted pretty quickly) but I bet Kieron wouldn't have said this was to streamline GTC sales. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:59:00 - [7] I'm not going to support my game play with GTCs anymore and go back to using my credit card, as it's cheaper for me to do it that way.
Divi	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Sertan Deras No, it's a rip off. The dollar may be tanking, but it's not 35% tanking. This GTC change makes the cost of playing EVE go up 35%, and that's for people paying US dollars. I feel sorry for you suckers in Europe that have to pay with Eurobux, because CCP isn't going to adjust your cost down. They are simply going to convert US dollars to eurobux and tell you to go screw yourself if you don't like it. Well here is a hint. The cards are only the first thing to go up. The credit card rate will follow. I will also note there are two big game releases in the near future. Time will tell if this is a good move or not, but it may solve the lag problem.
Khan d'barr	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:05:00 - [9] Edited by: Khan d''barr on 22/05/2008 17:05:01 Don't think i'll be re-subbing now. I'm going to uni and could just about afford the 90day GTCs in my budget. Thanks thumbs up
Jacob Marden Aliastra	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Rorin Cutter why should I pay more for playing this game then someone from the US? It's not only a rip off, its a bad business model in my opinion. Do you make the same amount of money as someone from to US per hour? If I have $20 and you have $20, and an sub cost $15, we're both left with $5. It shouldn't be I still pay $15 and you pay less just because you're in a different country. MMO's have always had a standardized rate because how would it look if you wanted to play a game, and looking at the subs it said, "$14.99 US, $8.99 EU". It's a subconcious turnoff for a potential consumer because they're paying more than someone else.
Rorin Cutter KNIGHTS OF RYCHE	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Jack Gilligan If so, then why doesn't CCP say so instead of saying it's to "streamline GTC sales" instead? Because they fired Kieron. It's as simple as that, Kieron would have been up in arms if forced to post a lie and it's probably part of the reason he was fired and is now working at NCSoft. I'm not going to pass judgement on Wrangler (partly because such a message would be deleted pretty quickly) but I bet Kieron wouldn't have said this was to streamline GTC sales. wait, they fired Kieron? and they are now "streamlining" there payment systems. Sounds like a fail to me. Regardless, I bet CCP will be loosing members and money on this one.
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Divi Originally by: Sertan Deras No, it's a rip off. The dollar may be tanking, but it's not 35% tanking. This GTC change makes the cost of playing EVE go up 35%, and that's for people paying US dollars. I feel sorry for you suckers in Europe that have to pay with Eurobux, because CCP isn't going to adjust your cost down. They are simply going to convert US dollars to eurobux and tell you to go screw yourself if you don't like it. Well here is a hint. The cards are only the first thing to go up. The credit card rate will follow. I will also note there are two big game releases in the near future. Time will tell if this is a good move or not, but it may solve the lag problem. I also believe they will raise the CC rate as well. If they got rid of the 30 and 90 day cards for a 60 day one almost as expensive as the old 90 day one to "streamline" sales, one wonders what their announcement will be when they do that?
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Rorin Cutter why should I pay more for playing this game then someone from the US? It's not only a rip off, its a bad business model in my opinion. First off if you buy a GTC online for $35 it costs you exactly the same as an American who buys it for $35. Secondly I find it funny that so many Europeans complain that they pay more than those in the US. The dollar's weakness is relatively recent. Back when EVE started it was stronger and Europeans paid less (not counting VAT but that is something different). Why weren't you complaining about the unfairness of Americans paying more then?
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Rorin Cutter wait, they fired Kieron? and they are now "streamlining" there payment systems. Sounds like a fail to me. Regardless, I bet CCP will be loosing members and money on this one. Yeah, they fired him a while ago and tried to keep it quiet until someone found his resume online saying he was no longer at CCP and currently unemployed. Now it says he's something like a community manager for NCSoft.
Lord XSiV Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:10:00 - [15] Of course it isn't, it is a correction to a flaw. This is no different than cell phones using a 'pay as you go' type of service. They pay a premium charge per unit for the convieniance to cancel at any time. GTCs should be no different. Once again all the people whining aobut it won't cancel their accounts, and even if they did, it isn't like CCP is making any money off them anyhow so good riddance I say.
Sabrina Treadehugger	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:11:00 - [16] what an idiotic post avoiding the real problem.
KapnKaboom School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:13:00 - [17] They just need to do away with the GTC system alltogether. The RMT system it supports has needed to be stamped out for a long time now.
LilRascal III	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:13:00 - [18] Sorry, but Europeans complaing about paying more is pretty funny. This is only a recent phenomenon, and the VAT tax is completely on your governemnts. Cry more IMO.
abraheam Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:14:00 - [19] Originally by: LilRascal III Sorry, but Europeans complaining about paying more is pretty funny. This is only a recent phenomenon, and the VAT tax is completely on your governemnts. Cry more IMO.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Lord XSiV Once again all the people whining aobut it won't cancel their accounts I know I won't. I've been hooked on EVE for years, not going to give it up any time soon. My costs will go up but given the state of the dollar I can't believe they hadn't gone up yet anyway. One of the big issues at hand is that the costs for different people are radically different and if they're standardising their price ranges, they should have done it all at once rather than in baby steps. The general rule is that when you have to give people bad news, it's best to give it all at once. When CCP alter the prices for recurring subs in dollars too there'll be another outcry.
Natsume Chidori	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Jack Gilligan If so, then why doesn't CCP say so instead of saying it's to "streamline GTC sales" instead? Because they fired Kieron. It's as simple as that, Kieron would have been up in arms if forced to post a lie and it's probably part of the reason he was fired and is now working at NCSoft. I'm not going to pass judgement on Wrangler (partly because such a message would be deleted pretty quickly) but I bet Kieron wouldn't have said this was to streamline GTC sales. [CITATION NEEDED]
Rorin Cutter KNIGHTS OF RYCHE	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Rorin Cutter why should I pay more for playing this game then someone from the US? It's not only a rip off, its a bad business model in my opinion. First off if you buy a GTC online for $35 it costs you exactly the same as an American who buys it for $35. Secondly I find it funny that so many Europeans complain that they pay more than those in the US. The dollar's weakness is relatively recent. Back when EVE started it was stronger and Europeans paid less (not counting VAT but that is something different). Why weren't you complaining about the unfairness of Americans paying more then? Sorry guy I am normally not very argumentative, but this time your not only wrong but really wrong. I am American. 35 Euro is worth 52,5 dollars at todays rate. not 35 dollars is 35 euros. So the people in europe pay more for the same enjoyment and gameplay as the US players.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:19:00 - [23] What CCP really should do was charge all their prices in Euro. GTC resellers would then have to handle the currency conversion, and they would take the blame when a currency plummets like the US dollar. Would be an easy way out for CCP to avoid more blame in the future for an issue that is essentially outside their control. CCP needs ISK/Euro to pay their expenses. It doesn't make much sense for them to continuously get less and less revenue from their US customers just because the dollar is in free-fall.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Natsume Chidori [CITATION NEEDED] Not that it's really relevant to the discussion, but: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cdane http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=733079 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777829&page=1#14 Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Natsume Chidori	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Natsume Chidori [CITATION NEEDED] Not that it's really relevant to the discussion, but: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cdane http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=733079 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777829&page=1#14 Right, but all we know is that he doesn't work here anymore, no idea whether he left on friendly terms or not.
Ralara D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:24:00 - [26] As a UK person: As far as I can see, the price hasn't gone up since 2003, when the game went live. In 5 years, no price change. Yet there's been RL inflation, market crashes and currency value changes. And it's STILL cheaper, if you're in the EU, to buy game time cards in dollars, through, say, Shattered Crystal, than it is to pay monthly. --
Angela Toren Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:29:00 - [27] Edited by: Angela Toren on 22/05/2008 17:34:59 Originally by: Rorin Cutter why should I pay more for playing this game then someone from the US? It's not only a rip off, its a bad business model in my opinion. I'm not saying you should pay more, i'm trying to explain what I believe the problem was for the change to happen. Pretend the running cost of Eve per month is for example 3 million dollars and for many months ccp are making a steady 4 million. If then with the same subscription number you find you are now only making 2.5 mil a month due to a weak dollar and Euro paying players mass changing to GTC (via dollar) - you then have a serious problem which needs to be fixed one way or another. Originally by: Jack Gilligan If so, then why doesn't CCP say so instead of saying it's to "streamline GTC sales" instead? Because that is a professional way to conduct ones business, we don't always need to know the exact details as people will pretty much figure it out for themselves. Streamline is to reduce or make more efficient, that is really all they need to say. _______ Oh Mindy...
Inarr Beck	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:30:00 - [28] wouldn't the smart move to be then to have all the rates denominated in ISK (the iceland one)? That way everyone pays the same from CCPs viewpoint. And as for the people saying that the euro/dollar rate is recent: it's at least a couple of years old by now. What is new is 1Ç buying you 1.5 dollars. That's a significant difference when compared to the times when the rates where in the europeans favour (iirc 1$ bought you 1.2 euro or somesuch). All said and done: we need to remember that this is only an issue because it's so very easy to see the rate-differences and that the ability to pay in foreign currency is also readily available. In other words: or view is skewed due to easy access to information.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:31:00 - [29] Edited by: Nyphur on 22/05/2008 17:32:39 Originally by: Natsume Chidori Right, but all we know is that he doesn't work here anymore, no idea whether he left on friendly terms or not. It's discussed in the second link thread a little. Essentially, they made no anouncement of him leaving or Wrangler being promoted but when the last community manager Pann handed over to Kieron there was a big announcement. The difference is that Pann still works for CCP and just moved within the company but Kieron stopped working there. That suggests to me that they wanted to downplay his departure and didn't offer him a chance to say goodbye. Additionally, for about a month Kieron's online resume had no current job, meaning he was unemployed. A few a months later, I checked it and it had changed to say that he had been working for NCSoft for one month, indicating that he didn't have a job lined up when he stopped working at CCP and had to go hunting. I don't think any more evidence is required at this point, that's a fairly strong case for him having been fired. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Angela Toren Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:39:00 - [30] Edited by: Angela Toren on 22/05/2008 17:40:03 Originally by: Inarr Beck wouldn't the smart move to be then to have all the rates denominated in ISK (the iceland one)? That way everyone pays the same from CCPs viewpoint. In my opinion I believe this would be best for all concerned but i'm sure CCP have reasons why they prefer not to be paid in their native currency. I think it has more to do with the standard MMO wide practice of paying in euros, pounds or dollars so people know exactly the value of what they are paying for. _______ Oh Mindy...

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