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Protect Player Choice: Save 30/90 day GTCs

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Irdomi	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Irdomi on 22/05/2008 18:13:51 Edited by: Irdomi on 22/05/2008 18:09:24 Per the announcement -- Changes coming for ETCs and Game Time Cards -- 30, 50, 90, and 100 day are being discontinued on June 15, 2008. These are being supplanted by a single 60-day ETC. This effectively removes any player choice with regards to ETCs. I respectfully request any CSM member put forth a resolution for discussion and vote urging CCP to retain 30/50/90/100 day times codes options. Such resolution should highlight the negative effects and unpopularity of this announcement as well as the benefits of ETC player choice. Additionally, the resolution and debate should be restricted to the availability of ETC player choice and from any discussion of pricing. Please protect player choice. Full text of the announcement: Quote: Changes coming for ETC's and Game Time Cards reported by: CCP Wrangler \| 2008.05.22 13:57:19 To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store. Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008. ! edit: Added restrictions on pricing discussions. Please debate pricing issues in the following thread Discuss Pricing Issues Here
Irdomi	Posted - 2008.05.22 17:58:00 - [2] Edited by: Irdomi on 22/05/2008 18:13:51 Edited by: Irdomi on 22/05/2008 18:09:24 Per the announcement -- Changes coming for ETCs and Game Time Cards -- 30, 50, 90, and 100 day are being discontinued on June 15, 2008. These are being supplanted by a single 60-day ETC. This effectively removes any player choice with regards to ETCs. I respectfully request any CSM member put forth a resolution for discussion and vote urging CCP to retain 30/50/90/100 day times codes options. Such resolution should highlight the negative effects and unpopularity of this announcement as well as the benefits of ETC player choice. Additionally, the resolution and debate should be restricted to the availability of ETC player choice and from any discussion of pricing. Please protect player choice. Full text of the announcement: Quote: Changes coming for ETC's and Game Time Cards reported by: CCP Wrangler \| 2008.05.22 13:57:19 To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store. Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008. ! edit: Added restrictions on pricing discussions. Please debate pricing issues in the following thread Discuss Pricing Issues Here
Avalira Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:02:00 - [3] You can vote for it here ------------- Selling the following: Probe BPC's ARK JF 4.5b
Avalira Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:02:00 - [4] You can vote for it here ------------- Selling the following: Probe BPC's ARK JF 4.5b
BillyBong2 COLD-Wing The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.05.23 00:12:00 - [5] Already another topic about this. http://coldwing.100luz.com.ar/board/
LeGlt	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:42:00 - [6] There are better things than choice - streamlining systems to make them more efficient and better for all. Sometimes less is more! To give you an exmaple, there are only x amount of potential codes left under the current system and they're spread against types which may or may not sell very well. Has anyone even seen many of the 50/100 codes for sale? people had their choice and the majority ignored 50% of them. Why waste a large proportion of your potential serials on somehting that won't shift? By unifying the structure 100% of the codes have 100% potential to be sold. Then there are the in-game Economic factors. At the moment a 30 day code sells for approx 150m and 90 days for approx 350m. Sellers of 90 day codes get a raw deal for their higher purchase cost whilst buyers save a good 100m opting to buy a 90 day code instead of paying 450m for 3x 30 days. This is plainly out of balance and unfair to 30 day buyers and 90 day sellers. By limiting codes to 60 days only balance is restored - the buyer can pay a flat rate for their time and the seller won't get ripped off buying a higher code and selling it for less than it's equivalent value. Everybody wins... in theory... The only problem I personally have with the 60 day codes is the price. $35 seems a bit steep for a 60 day GTC when you can get a 90 day ETC for $39? __________________________ Nice forum - I'll take it!
Amaeros	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:52:00 - [7] Agreed. I'm neutral on the point of consolidating time codes (I understand both sides of the argument). However, the price seems more than a little unreasonable. I would think somewhere around $28 would make more sense - something about in line with the monthly subscription, and slightly less due to buying 2 months instead of 1 at a time.
Mr Fingol	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:47:00 - [8] Edited by: Mr Fingol on 30/05/2008 17:52:51 Originally by: BillyBong2 Already another topic about this. There is never enough topics about this topic.
Panthon	Posted - 2008.06.22 15:41:00 - [9] Lets just arbitrarely bump the cost by close to a third. To answer the person saying that to simplify can be good. Why did they not just discontinue the 50-100 Day ETC and focus on the 30 -90 that has been in great demand. The answer is to increase the revinue. All I have to say is that my entertainment moneycan go to the new online space game that I have read about just around the corner.
Komara letschian	Posted - 2008.07.09 18:49:00 - [10] How much are 60 day time cards going for at the minute?

Lolarina	Posted - 2008.07.17 02:58:00 - [11] eve if they brought it back, it qowuld be mroe expnesive...\ ccp wanted to rais prices to refelct their needs, and nothing is going to change that, rather close the game down than function at a loss or with limited developement capability
Atomicus	Posted - 2008.07.19 15:37:00 - [12] Edited by: Atomicus on 19/07/2008 15:37:54 If going for only one single type GTC is the most beneficial for CCP in one way or the other, then they should have gone for the 30 day type only. Obviously that would satisfy the needs of all players (just buy more GTCs if you want to charge the account for more than 30 days at the time)
cain mjolnir	Posted - 2008.07.31 22:11:00 - [13] Well they gotta make their money somehow when people quit the game from a nerdrage at the Nanonerf.
Joseph Boeing Team Machine Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Lolarina eve if they brought it back, it qowuld be mroe expnesive...\ ccp wanted to rais prices to refelct their needs, and nothing is going to change that, rather close the game down than function at a loss or with limited developement capability 'Function at a loss'? HAHA My friend I know not everyone understands the economics of such things, but being familiar with the economics of running a development studio and specifically how an recurring charge implementation pans out in dollars and cents, your post is very funny. CCP is in no way shape or form hurting on Eve Online. Based on time involved to create the original product times average number of coders to do it in that time times the average going rate for a game developer, Eve would have broken even for say, the first year. And made approximately 60% profit every month since then. If they are true efficiency experts, it could be closer to 80. But its well above 50% unless they are truly bad at the business side of things. Granted, some studios are. What is happening here is simple: Some analyst/bean counter has told them enough times that they can GET MORE per month, and get away with it. It's that simple. Why sell it at $15/mo when you can charge $20? The answer in morals is because it's wrong to charge $20 when you are doing well off at $15. The answer in business(not a rule but often times) is DO IT. There is a reason why no software developer of any quality has stayed on top for long. Eventually they become too disconnected from their users, and make their one big mistake because of that. Welcome to CCP's one big mistake.
Fahtim Meidires Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Joseph Boeing Originally by: Lolarina eve if they brought it back, it qowuld be mroe expnesive...\ ccp wanted to rais prices to refelct their needs, and nothing is going to change that, rather close the game down than function at a loss or with limited developement capability 'Function at a loss'? HAHA My friend I know not everyone understands the economics of such things, but being familiar with the economics of running a development studio and specifically how an recurring charge implementation pans out in dollars and cents, your post is very funny. CCP is in no way shape or form hurting on Eve Online. Based on time involved to create the original product times average number of coders to do it in that time times the average going rate for a game developer, Eve would have broken even for say, the first year. And made approximately 60% profit every month since then. If they are true efficiency experts, it could be closer to 80. But its well above 50% unless they are truly bad at the business side of things. Granted, some studios are. What is happening here is simple: Some analyst/bean counter has told them enough times that they can GET MORE per month, and get away with it. It's that simple. Why sell it at $15/mo when you can charge $20? The answer in morals is because it's wrong to charge $20 when you are doing well off at $15. The answer in business(not a rule but often times) is DO IT. There is a reason why no software developer of any quality has stayed on top for long. Eventually they become too disconnected from their users, and make their one big mistake because of that. Welcome to CCP's one big mistake. Honestly, I don't think it's a mistake. For people paying for the game with real money, it's still $15 a month. You can buy a month then suspend payment, essentially buying a 30 day code. For people who buy their codes using isk, those prices will change a little, but ccp doesn't care too much b/c it's space currency. The people who are hit hardest here are those who sell codes for isk. They are forced to make larger purchases at once and don't get as good a deal. This probably hurts RMT as well. IMO, this is a good thing.
Joseph Boeing Team Machine Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:57:00 - [16] Well as for GTC's, look in the forums for it. Money/Isk ratio isn't being hurt at the moment, in fact the GTC dealer is actually making abit more atm. $40 90 day was going for about 350M Isk. Now $35 60 day is going for about 350M Isk. To make it clear, my point was this: This is a preface to raising the monthly fee. Which is where my issue lies. $15 is a premium price already for what is being delivered, but it is acceptable. When you start to raise that price, it becomes too much in your favor and too little in mine; it loses it's VALUE. If the monthly rate is not being raised, I have no problem. $15 a month is the proper value, and that's what it's about: what is something worth. I am not one of those people(there are too many of them, screwing it up for all of the rest of us) who will pay WHATEVER something costs, if they really want it. No, for me, the price has to make sense. And, in cases where I am aware of the cost of making such a thing, the amount of profit made off my purchase, needs to make SENSE. It is relatively easy to look at what it takes to make something and come to a reasonable idea of how much it cost to make it. From there you can reason out a reasonable price. I hope that clears up my beef in the previous post. Hence my references of $15/mo becoming $20. Because the increase in GTC price/time ratio leads you in the reasonable direction that the monthly subscription price increase is coming next.
Mr Morimoto The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.03 17:39:00 - [17] As many others before you, your greed will get the best of you CCP. Rome Has fallen......... -----Empire Corp in need of isk farmers. Must be willing to move into my basement. Bread and water provided daily. Convo ingame-----


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