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Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
581
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Posted - 2012.03.07 00:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Do not read any further if you're not interested in a long gloating, against all odds, how-I-foiled-those-evil-PvPers, type of war story.
__________________________
It's not often that the care bear's little-hauler-that-can gets a victory against a seasoned w-space PvP gang. Of course 'victory' in those circumstances means survival, but it was a lot of fun so I am gonna gloat about it while I can.
Here's how it all went down ....
There I was, quietly clearing out my previous home (C3 w-system) after having pretty well completed the sale and transfer. I'd hauled everything out to empire except a small tower, a CHA, a shuttle, and a little bit of fuel / stront. That is my usual system-exit strategy.
I've offloaded the fuel and stront into the POS of the system's new owner, have popped the CHA into my hold, and have just offlined the tower when I need to go run a few errands. So I leave the offline tower and the 'canary' shuttle sitting quietly to await my return.
I come back to find that my canary has been killed and the wreck destroyed - both of those observations telling me something about my visitors. There are no extra ships apparent on probe scan, but I figure anyone who'd kill that canary and destroy the wreck was not gonna be making themselves obvious. They'd either moved-on or were quietly waiting for me.
What to do? What to do?
Risk assessment
Worst case outcome is that there's an ambush going down and I will lose ship, CHA, tower, and capsule ... prolly around 250M and some angst and humility. Best case is that they've moved on and I will safely and quietly uplift the tower and head off to my new home. Likely scenario = ambush, because they went to the effort to find and kill my canary and destroy the wreck, and so they were probably aware of my POS offlining and saw that, along with the uplifting ship, as an easy and juicy target.
If it was an ambush I reckoned on at least a fast-locking frig(s), a dictor / hictor, an EW ship, and some DPS doods.
Assuming it was an ambush I reckoned our respective strengths and weaknesses were:
Their weaknesses. PvPers = short attention spans. Good PvPers (as I assumed they were) = slightly longer short attention spans. If they're waiting around the unanchored tower they will be >2km from it, to maintain their cloaks, and they will have a target locking delay when they uncloak (NFI how that works for hictors / dictors tho).
Their strengths. I expected I was dealing with competent PvPers so they've prolly done this sort of thing before ... perhaps many times.
My weaknesses. No warp core stabs, no AB (MWD fitted), no tank, and absolutely no DPS for more than a dozen jumps.
My strengths. Possibility of surprise, getting to dictate the timing of any engagement. Cloak. Only a strength if I get to use it. Preparation. I already had a collection of warpable bookmarks around the tower.
Plan
I decided to take the all-or-nothing option and try to extract the tower.
First I decided to play on their attention spans with a little bit of a waiting game before I took action. Then I wanted to try to use the cloaking distance to my advantage and to take action as quickly as I could when the time came. Use a pair of above-and-below bookmarks when the time came.
Implementation
My first action was a key to my strategy ... I headed off to pickup the kids from their swimming lessons. I figured that that 15 - 20 minutes would have any wannabe ambushers starting to doubt, and probably sharing lurid fukung postings ... rather than watching alertly for me.
When I got back home I warped to a bookmarked location above the tower, and aligned.
Hail Marys, touching of wood, crossing of fingers ... warp to zero on my POS tower bookmark.
As soon as my cloak dissolved I hit the little align-to triangle on my HUD, to power straight ahead, then scooped tower to cargo, hit cloak (tower no longer stopping that) and MWD. True to expectations a fleet materialises around me, and a hound appears to be moving towards me as my cloak tries to take and, heart racing, I fumble the menu items to warp to the inline bookmark below the tower. I was surprised that there was no bomb launched and am not sure whether a bubble happened or not - PvP is always a bit of a heart thumping blur to this non-PvPer.
As the hound gets close enough to frack my cloak attempt, my exit warp 'takes' and I plummet down towards that BM - recloaking on the way. As I do this I see them all aligning and warping off in the same direction. I'd made it! Buoyed by the adrenaline I make a wee taunting gesture in local ... stony silence from my attackers.
So then I warp to another bookmark a few hundred km from my planned exit WH ... to find their little fleet had relocated to the WH and had it bubbled and camped. Obviously they were expected me to be warping there to hastily exit.
That was easy! I then headed out to prepare dinner for the family. But first I grab an info window on these dudes and note it down - [ADHC].
When I returned their camp had dissolved and I jumped out to empire space to continue on my merry way.
When I check their corp info, I ROFL bigtime. Even **I** have heard of adhocracy ... and I will dine out on my I-survived-ADHC ambush story for years to come, even though I have no doubt I will also die many times to ADHC or like-minded folk.
Thanks guys, it was fun, and a lesson for me in what can be gotten-away-with if you're lucky enough
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
136
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Posted - 2012.03.07 00:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fun read. (: Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
3
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Posted - 2012.03.07 02:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good story - Enjoyable read. I had a similar experience once.
But your ending is much happier than mine.
Mine ended with me stupidly exiting a wormhole in Gallente space and the Faction Navy npc's eating my Badger. Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
177
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Posted - 2012.03.07 03:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cool story, bro.
From your description, I assume your active ship was a blockade runner of some sort. Quite honestly, I'm shocked they weren't able to stop you from warping. Bombers have no decloaking delay to targeting, and good scan res to boot. Your choice to hold off on grabbing the tower and lulling them into a sense of complacency clearly paid off. Well done. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
249
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Posted - 2012.03.07 06:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Congrats :D good job! |
Dark Pangolin
The Clean Up Crew S E D I T I O N
59
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Posted - 2012.03.07 15:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Confirming PvPer attention span of 3 min or less...Cool story though. They should make an EvE video about it :) YOU WERE THERE! |
Karl Planck
147
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Posted - 2012.03.07 16:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
good read, fun to hear about the carebears who make it. I am always interested to hear what is going on in the minds of the defenders If you don't like it, you should go and ride your Emo high-horse all the way back to WoW.
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Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
597
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Posted - 2012.03.07 18:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dark Pangolin wrote:Confirming PvPer attention span of 3 min or less...Cool story though.
Hey thanks. It was fun to write. I found my heart racing just reliving the incident as I wrote the details down
3-minutes!!! They must be uber-leet PvPers.
Dark Pangolin wrote:They should make an EvE video about it :) YOU WERE THERE!
Ya, and we can title it "The little hauler that could".
Karl Planck wrote:good read, fun to hear about the carebears who make it.
Just to maintain some balance, here's a previous war story of my not-making-it ... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26794&find=unread
Karl Planck wrote:I am always interested to hear what is going on in the minds of the defenders
Usually OMFG-type sheer terror, followed either by despondency and not wanting to play for a day-week-month or rabid elation and exuberant cockiness. After losing my loki I moped around for a week or so , after cheating death on this occasion I'm still on a high a couple days later.
In this little 'battle' I think the life saver for me was my canary shuttle. If they'd not killed it first then I'd probably have had no idea they were there and would have been taking a much more leisurely approach to the tower pickup. But then I guess they weren't to know I'd gone AFK after starting the tower offlining. All a series of ifs, buts, and mebbes We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.03.07 18:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
I assume you were in a BR, based on your description of events. As such, you did have a decent chance of escaping as long as they did not have a couple of SBs drop their loads on you.
Just curious what I would do in the same situation, but I think I would line up opposite a celestial in my overview (I prefer moons) so that I could skim past the tower, scoop it, and just click the warp button on my overview/hit cloak at the same time. I am not sure I would hit MWD, since it delays the warp a wee bit and makes you sig huge in case you do get bombed. |
Calfis
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
64
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Posted - 2012.03.07 19:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote: I figured that that 15 - 20 minutes would have any wannabe ambushers starting to doubt, and probably sharing lurid fukung postings ... rather than watching alertly for me.
I lol'd, this gave me flashbacks to many PvP ops, splendid escape, what did you say in local? |
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Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2012.03.07 19:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
You know, if they'd put a cloaked HIC right by the tower, it can bubble as soon as it drops cloak, no need to lock you. I'm almost 100% sure a regular interdictor could do that too, but usually w-space people have HICs for the tank. Indeed Adhoc aren't bad, they should have had you, but perhaps you bored the HIC pilot(s) long enough to give those wise POS BMs a final use.
Also, you should PvP far more, as you've proved you're not a ****** and thus better than many, |
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
4
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Posted - 2012.03.07 21:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Even with a HIC present, a BR has a passable chance since they can use the cov ops cloak. It all depends on how effective/lucky their decloaker is. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
598
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 23:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Salcon Cliff wrote: I assume you were in a BR ... Just curious what I would do in the same situation, but I think I would line up opposite a celestial in my overview ... I am not sure I would hit MWD ...
Yes, the little-hauler-that-could was a prowler. All my prowlers are rigged for GTFO rather than cargo-space but since I needed 6k m^3 for the tower plus CHA I had cargo expanders in the lowslots (rather than the usual nanos).
Using celestials is always an option, but I am not fond of it. I rename my planned warp-to BM, starting the name with "!", so it's unmissable at the top of the list. In the past I have been caught by interceptors warping to a celestial, although I guess you could customise your warp-to distance to reduce that possibility or, as you mention, warp to a non-planet celestial. To do this, though, I'd have to also potter around and build a new bookmark ... slowly while under cloak. As is was I had several paired sets of bookmarks that were ideal for this purpose. I have them because they're usually the entry routes to my POSes ... the only way to get to them, or the nearby moon, without getting caught in the nasty T2 large bubbles that I ****-cage myself with. As a rule my POSes get many many more kills than any of their residents do.
To MWD or not-to-MWD is an interesting debate. I figure that my primary defence is my cloak and that if I get uncloaked and target locked I am dead. I also figure that a w-space engagement of this kind will usually see me caught in a bubble of some sort, often with a fast ship powering towards me intent upon uncloaking. Given this scenario I figure that the MWD bloom is a reasonable risk (quicker for bad guys to lock me, and slower for me to establish GTFO warp) given that it moves me more quickly out of line of the fast-approaching frigates and also more quickly beyond the bubble ... that probably didn't happen in this case.
Calfis wrote:I lol'd, this gave me flashbacks to many PvP ops, splendid escape, what did you say in local?
FYI, I'd never heard of fukung until I sat in a few gate-camps in Pure Blind :-)
I was very courteous in local. I think it went something like this .... Upon getting thru the ambush alive "No surprise there boys :-)" Upon seeing the WH camped "Nor there" They, quite appropriately, maintained radio silence throughout.
Daneel Trevize wrote: ... it can bubble as soon as it drops cloak, no need to lock you ... ... they should have had you, but perhaps you bored the HIC pilot(s) long enough to give those wise POS BMs a final use. Also, you should PvP far more ...
Absolutely. I had expected to be bubbled, hence my MWD pulse once I'd made the scoop. I'm not sure that in this scenario a bubble would have changed it an awful lot ... it doesn't take a MWD-boosted prowler long to cover the 16-20km of a HICtor bubble. But if I was uncloaked by the hound before getting to the edge of the bubble then I'd be well and truly dead.
Yes, very happy with having those bookmarks.
As for PvP, I've done a little and enjoyed it mostly. Loved the ganky small gang roaming and hated big fleets and gate camping.
KevLor I wrote:Even with a HIC present, a BR has a passable chance since they can use the cov ops cloak.
That was my reasoning ... removing the tower let me cloak, and hitting the MWD as I cloaked helped me power out of the bubble I expected.
That's certainly my gate camp approach but the ambushers in a gate camp are usually spread a bit wider than a group waiting on a sole unanchored tower.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1419
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Posted - 2012.03.08 10:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Great story ! :D Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Laura Marhsal
Pure Steel Inc.
15
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Posted - 2012.03.08 13:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
good read! |
Phugoid
BHEI Galactic Construction
8
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Posted - 2012.03.08 16:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hey Substancia..... congrats Im sure it was a great feeling escaping the hunters! Congrats on putting all ur Eve experience to work! Its great to see that even us non-pvp's can have small victories here and there .
I had a "similar" escape not to long ago. Tho it was against obviously noob gankers who tried to gank me and my Hulk I was mining in .7, when I see a Skyth warp in, moves toward the belts and starts to mine.....hmmmmm, a Scythe isn't the best mining ship to mine with... so of course my antennae go up : I continue mining but on red alert. He now moves a bit closer to me. So now I know he's probs bookmarking a spot for his buddies (lesson learned from a previous Goon gank in an ice belt).... Ok, red alert lvl2, I give orders to align, re-call drones,.... no-sooner I do that 2 catalysts warp in and start to approach Of course, by this time I was ready to warp out, and I GTFO!.... Im sure these guys werent experts, because they did have a few seconds of time to scram my Hulk, but didnt, I assume they were learning, hehe, and luckily for me I had already learned some basic things to look out for...
Anywaz, I felt really good and proud of myself that I avoided a gank for once! So much so I got a medal for it from my corp's CEO : Wooohoooooo! To some it may be no big deal, but when ur only a few years old Eve wise, its a good accomplishment and a small victory! |
Tyr Snorri
United Tritanium Forge Ishukone Drug and Research Utilization Group
0
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Posted - 2012.03.08 17:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Good one, I think its the lack of prep that screws people the most. If you rush it, you're more likely to f-something up and lose your cargo!
Nice work! |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:a Scythe isn't the best mining ship to mine with. With good skills, it is about par with a retriever. And set up correctly, it makes an excellent can-flipper killer. |
Phugoid
BHEI Galactic Construction
8
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Salcon Cliff wrote:Quote:a Scythe isn't the best mining ship to mine with. With good skills, it is about par with a retriever. And set up correctly, it makes an excellent can-flipper killer.
My bad, didnt know that, I sit corrected :) |
Memoocan
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
15
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Posted - 2012.03.09 16:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
I hadn't realized we were e-famous.
I wasn't there but my corpmate that was has asked that I paste this for him:
"Is this about that small tower that we couldn't be bothered with enough to go back the 3 jumps home to get a hauler?
Survived ADHC, my ass, who gives a **** about a small tower. I was tooling around in an Ishtar at the low sec exit hoping a Loki would engage, little did I know this guy was triple boxing (scout in the low sec system, cloaky Loki at the low sec wormhole, and the prowler for the small tower. Between ships, clones and time wasted waiting for small tower to unanchor he was "risking" more assets than the tower was worth.
He didn't even mention my Ishtar, and how he only waited til I was gone from dscan to try for the POS. It sat unanchored for a good 10 minutes while I sat at the low sec wormhole semi AFK "reading" the babe thread on failheap real hard hoping a cloaky Loki pilot finds some balls."
It's hard to bore ADHC, we wait 3 hours for a cov ops on a hole. But some things just aren't worth it lol
But cheers for the escape, that was well earned. Amusing read as well. |
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Zedah Zoid
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
6
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Posted - 2012.03.09 16:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Memoocan wrote:[snip] "Is this about that small tower that we couldn't be bothered with enough to go back the 3 jumps home to get a hauler?
Survived ADHC, my ass, who gives a **** about a small tower. I was tooling around in an Ishtar at the low sec exit hoping a Loki would engage, little did I know this guy was triple boxing (scout in the low sec system, cloaky Loki at the low sec wormhole, and the prowler for the small tower. Between ships, clones and time wasted waiting for small tower to unanchor he was "risking" more assets than the tower was worth.
He didn't even mention my Ishtar, and how he only waited til I was gone from dscan to try for the POS. It sat unanchored for a good 10 minutes while I sat at the low sec wormhole semi AFK "reading" the babe thread on failheap real hard hoping a cloaky Loki pilot finds some balls."
It's hard to bore ADHC, we wait 3 hours for a cov ops on a hole. But some things just aren't worth it lol
But cheers for the escape, that was well earned. Amusing read as well.
ISKies being worth it is a bit relative. I can remember (vaguely thru the mists of time) when a flying 5M ISK Caracal made me nervous!
I wasn't there either, but to me the thing that sticks out about this story is the great time that it sounds like the OP had. This is what Eve is all about. The rush and the adrenaline of getting away with your skin still attached to your butt, regardless of the cost or ship or risk. Solid tactics, good prep, good execution, and it worked(this time). More people need to get over the fear that they might not win or might not get the kill and just play Eve and enjoy the thrill. There's nothing like having another heart pounding story to tell your wife/hubby/kid/friend/non-Eve playing mortal while she sits there politely and thinks, "Whatever rocks your boat, internet spaceship lol".
PS: confirming it is hard to bore ADHC Fly it like you've already lost it folks! |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
621
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Posted - 2012.03.09 17:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
LOL, excellent. There's always different perspectives on stuff that happens.
Great to learn that ADHC are beyond the human frailties of boredom and the like.
Wot ishtar?? Mebbe he only made an appearance while I was off grabbing the kids from swimming. Timing is everything I guess.
Our efforts at the time did not involve lowsec. I think there was an active C140, but we were planning our escape via the C2 ... and that the one y'all camped after I made the snatch.
Also interested to learn that going to get a hauler for the tower was a thought. I'd not thought that likely, worth it, but it was a nagging mebbe.
If that was us, and some sounds similar enough, that cloki loki was not gonna engage. He'd have been my scanner, and wouldn't know which end of an autocannon to point at ya.
Thanks and, ya, my boat rocks We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Bishops Guest
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
18
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Posted - 2012.03.09 17:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
We are not 'leet PvPors' we just want a good game where thing could go boom. Win or lose, just play the game. If that game is "Get as many of the cap ships out as well can before they go down" or "Counter gank the T3 gank squad" or even "Escape with my hauler" they are all fun w-space games. (Though I will admit "Watching a guy and his six alts in gas harvesting moas sit in a POS" is not one of my favorites)
Glad we could make your evening more enjoyable. |
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
30
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Posted - 2012.03.09 18:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
http://youtu.be/-_2_cJxYYhM
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Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
622
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 19:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bishops Guest wrote:We are not 'leet PvPors' we just want a good game where thing could go boom. Win or lose, just play the game. If that game is "Get as many of the cap ships out as well can before they go down" or "Counter gank the T3 gank squad" or even "Escape with my hauler" they are all fun w-space games. (Though I will admit "Watching a guy and his six alts in gas harvesting moas sit in a POS" is not one of my favorites)
Glad we could make your evening more enjoyable.
I likes your attitude :-)
It's a game, and it's gotta be fun ... at least often enough.
Given that I'm big-bear by inclination, escaping with my hauler (and POS) is fun, and a nice counterpoint to the all-too-often caught-and killed scenarios that i don't usually write-up :-)
Pos-watching gas miners (mine are hurricanes) does not sound much like fun tho.
Enjoy, and stay safe ... or dangerous as preference takes you.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
302
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Posted - 2012.03.09 22:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote: escaping with my hauler (and POS) is fun, Good on ya' m8!
"we'll see you around..."
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
39
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Posted - 2012.03.09 22:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
It's good to see that most of the ADHC folks posting in here have a decent outlook, and took this thread in the spirit it was typed in. |
Egdod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.11 02:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1
A good little story, well told. |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
244
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Posted - 2012.03.11 12:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
This turned out to be an entertaining little thread. |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
127
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Posted - 2012.03.12 05:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
When's "Part Two: Ninja installation of a pos" going up? |
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