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[Issue] Non Windows clients

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Arshes Nei Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:27:00 - [1] Edited by: Arshes Nei on 23/05/2008 11:28:51 As you know CCP have for some time now supported Linux and MAC OSX via a translation layer provided by the company Transgaming. I only briefly tried the linux version and was apalled by how bad it was(stability, gfx issues), these seem to be the problems: 1. There seems to be a free alternative to Transgamings translation layer that is working better and supports a wider amount of hardware(Wine). 2. Support for ATI cards not possible due to driver related issues(Non Transgaming versions have less of an issue apparently). 3. Grahics corruption and atleast for some players instability and fps loss(again the free inoffical client from 1. seems to hold alot better). 4. Still no Premium content available on the offical client after all this time(again 1. supports it). Sources: a.Official client or Wine for better FPS?. Free version supports premium content and is faster/more stable while having less grafical problems. b. Crossover games. Competitor of Transgaming released a program that officially support eve premium content, while apparently running better than official classic version. Basicly i would like to ask one of the CSM representives to support this as a inquiry for information about what ccp thinks about these current problems and what plans they have regarding these non windows clients in the future. The official client gets overtaken right left and center by third parties which simply work better than what CCP pays Transgaming money for, and the official premium client was anticipated months ago.
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:47:00 - [2] -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.
Siona Windweaver	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:54:00 - [3]
Arshes Nei Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.24 13:59:00 - [4] Seems like interest in this is low, well that was to be expected which is why i asked for direct support from the CSM ... So comeon people, even if you play in windows and dont intend to change that, show some empathy for those that are stuck with classic content and buggy software.
Inanna Zuni The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:39:00 - [5] Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 24/05/2008 14:39:45 Originally by: Arshes Nei Seems like interest in this is low, well that was to be expected which is why i asked for direct support from the CSM ... So comeon people, even if you play in windows and dont intend to change that, show some empathy for those that are stuck with classic content and buggy software. Well, being a Saturday on a holiday weekend for many I wouldn't expect to see a rapid number of comments on any post but ... As regards your issue, I fully agree with you that the availability to play the greatest 'game' in the universe on other (ie non-windows) platforms is to be both welcomed and encouraged. There is the difficulty on the Linux front, of course, that there are very many platforms which have that name but use different underlying structures, making actual implementation not as straight-forward as it can be elsewhere. That CCP have chosen one particular company to partner with in developing the ability to run EVE on these other platforms is neither surprising nor a problem. The cost overhead in doing it in-house would be terrible - why reinvent the wheel when others have become specialists in the field if you can make use of their skills? Whether or not someone else does it 'better' (fsvo) is a commercial decision for CCP I would argue, not for players or the CSM. It does no harm though to point out the pros and cons of any available solution though and to ask that the capabilities of the available clients be brought up to the same specification as the 'main/best' windows client. IZ My principles
Zaepho Advanced Logistics Empire	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:55:00 - [6] Transgaming is a modified version of Wine (or was last I looked). There should be no reason not to run the windows client under wine. If that's your cup of wine.. or tea.. or whatever Want to make a difference in the economy? Join the Party! eve-politico.net
Arshes Nei Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.24 19:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Inanna Zuni Whether or not someone else does it 'better' (fsvo) is a commercial decision for CCP I would argue, not for players or the CSM. It does no harm though to point out the pros and cons of any available solution though and to ask that the capabilities of the available clients be brought up to the same specification as the 'main/best' windows client. Hmm i disagree here. It was stated Premium content would be available in Q1, which has now gone and passed. We have people now subscribing after seeing screenshots or the new awesome trailers, which will be quite dissatisfied id guess. Not only do the graphics dont match the ones on windows, we now also do not even have a release date anymore for the premium content. One could say my issue is purely with the communications side, i do understand that the developement of this is not in CCPs hand for the most part. Its also hardly their fault that transgaming is basicly showing us the cold shoulder(atleast i dont see them in the linux/mac forum helping people), but what they can do is keeping us informed a bit better.
Orontes Ovasi COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.05.31 02:29:00 - [8]
NightmoonEagle Matari BackBone	Posted - 2008.05.31 05:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Inanna Zuni Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 24/05/2008 14:39:45 Whether or not someone else does it 'better' (fsvo) is a commercial decision for CCP I would argue, not for players or the CSM. It does no harm though to point out the pros and cons of any available solution though and to ask that the capabilities of the available clients be brought up to the same specification as the 'main/best' windows client. IZ With this I must also disagree. If the solution that is BETTER is FREE, then why are CCP WASTING our subscription money by paying an incompetent bunch of try-hard programmers (whose only real concern is how many WOW subscribers they can con) when they could be utilising this FREE, platform INDEPENDENT, WINdows Emulator. NightmoonEagle Director of Research Director of PoS Management Matari Backbone
Ameliorate	Posted - 2008.05.31 08:31:00 - [10] As someone who is seriously thinking about making the switch to Linux I support this issue. If it is true that the Windows client running under Wine is better than the official Linux client then that is terrible and should be remedied ASAP. Originally by: NightmoonEagle With this I must also disagree. If the solution that is BETTER is FREE, then why are CCP WASTING our subscription money by paying an incompetent bunch of try-hard programmers (whose only real concern is how many WOW subscribers they can con) when they could be utilising this FREE, platform INDEPENDENT, WINdows Emulator. Wine is not an emulator. ---- Train skills, check mail and pay bills from your mobile: Support my CSM issue

Garthal Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.05.31 08:46:00 - [11] -- We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2008.06.04 23:26:00 - [12] Q: Why you are using MS SQL server, it is slow and nowhere near enough to support your game? A: We were not know anything about any other DB server at the time we were started. Q: Why you were not learned something other? A: We do not have enough will to do so. Q: Why you are using DirectX, it is not cross-platform and supports very limited set of features, and not extendable? A: We were not know anything about any other hardware abstraction layer at the time we were started. Q: Why you were not learned something other? OpenGL was there for ages before DirectX, from what I know? A: We do not have enough will to do so. You got the point? -- Thanks CCP for cu
Hagis McBree Lucky Star Enterprises The Gemini Project	Posted - 2008.06.05 14:58:00 - [13] I hope this gets attention, but linux/os x being such a small EVE population, I don't think it will.
Ranamar	Posted - 2008.06.05 15:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Tonto Auri Q: Why you are using DirectX, it is not cross-platform and supports very limited set of features, and not extendable? A: We were not know anything about any other hardware abstraction layer at the time we were started. Q: Why you were not learned something other? OpenGL was there for ages before DirectX, from what I know? A: We do not have enough will to do so. You got the point? I have some friends who develop games as a hobby/extracurricular/etc. and intend to go into the game development industry when they finish school. I have gotten the impression from them that it is simply nicer to work with DirectX than OpenGL. That said, I have not worked with either, so I don't know any of this from personal experience. However, I have a dual-boot system with an ATI card, and I will support any measure which advocates looking into making this stuff work better on ATI cards as well as NVidia ones. (On the other hand, it is worth pointing out that ATI hated Linux, at least before they were bought by AMD, and my particular card has ... other issues, as well which mean my Windows driver is dated earlier than when I bought my computer.)
Deej Montana Outbound Flight	Posted - 2008.06.05 16:28:00 - [15] The current Mac version of the client is horrible. Suffers from much lower framerates, graphical glitches, and instability compared with the Win client. There's also the fact that we're stuck with the non-premium graphics for the foreseeable future. I'm paying the same amount in sub fees as the Win players, yet getting a vastly inferior gaming experience. I understand there are major technological issues that need to be overcome, but it seems that the open source community is solving these at a faster rate than Transgaming. This needs to be looked into and it would be nice to get some communication from CCP on this issue.
MrZYD	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:14:00 - [16]
Katrina Bekers Sudo Magodo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.06 14:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Ameliorate If it is true that the Windows client running under Wine is better than the official Linux client then that is terrible and should be remedied ASAP. It's not only true, but demonstrable in so many areas that's not even fun anymore. For kicks, take one of the laughable excuses as to why CCP picked TG: they wanted a "consistent" game client across all platforms, and TG is somehow contractually obliged to deliver that. Yet, their product, backed up by who knows how many coins, still doesn't support Premium Graphic, while WINE does (with some glitches, but at least it works nicely!). So whose product delivers best "consistency"? One that can provide only the Classic Graphics, or one that can provide both versions? And lets not even start with other basic functionality like cut'n'paste (!!) which doesn't work with the official client, but works flawlessly in WINE. Or raw performance. Or stability. Ah, well, we linux hackers are used to work our way around proprietary incompetence. After all, our very GNU environment is just a Xerox printer driver gone terribly wrong! <grin> Giving my support, as if it would change anything... -- Kate :: Dept. Foreign Relations :: Sudo Magodo Corp.
Jeirth Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.06.06 14:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Jeirth on 06/06/2008 14:18:10 Give some more love to the non windows people.
Kernel Flux	Posted - 2008.06.06 16:57:00 - [19] As a Mac OSX user I fully support this idea. Thanks for brining it up.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.06 17:06:00 - [20] I'm trying to get a Mac-using friend to play Eve, and I've even gotten her to agree in principle, but she's still holding off for a lot of the aforementioned stupid technical reasons. I can't imagine I'm the only one in a position like this. Fix these problems, and you'll get more subscribers, simply put. Plus, I get one of my friends out of WoW, and that's almost as good. ------------------ Fix the forums!

Franconian Eagle Core Element Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.27 15:01:00 - [21] Please CCP, support the WINE project directly. :)


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