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Nikita Alterana
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:30:00 -
[1]
One of the major things I've noticed in large fleet battles is the biggest blob always wins. There are no real tactics beyond moar guns=win. Th problem is primarying, big fleet battles come down to call primary, blow up ship, call primary, blow up ship, call primary blow up ship. I fleet battles we should have battleships going at it broadsides, with snipers blasting on from a distance while frigates and fighters zoom through the mess blowing blasting away at targets. So What prevents fleet battles from being like this? And How can we fix it? __________________________________________________ |
Nikita Alterana
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:30:00 -
[2]
One of the major things I've noticed in large fleet battles is the biggest blob always wins. There are no real tactics beyond moar guns=win. Th problem is primarying, big fleet battles come down to call primary, blow up ship, call primary, blow up ship, call primary blow up ship. I fleet battles we should have battleships going at it broadsides, with snipers blasting on from a distance while frigates and fighters zoom through the mess blowing blasting away at targets. So What prevents fleet battles from being like this? And How can we fix it? __________________________________________________ |
Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:31:00 -
[3]
not your fault most FC's cant think outside the box.
better tactics > moar ships plz!!!!!!
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Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:31:00 -
[4]
not your fault most FC's cant think outside the box.
better tactics > moar ships plz!!!!!!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:34:00 -
[5]
"In the land of the blind, the crooked-eyed man is the king". Replace "blind" with "unimaginative FC" and take it from there...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:34:00 -
[6]
"In the land of the blind, the crooked-eyed man is the king". Replace "blind" with "unimaginative FC" and take it from there...
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Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:44:00 -
[7]
also rarley in large fleets fights is every1 shooting at the same target. That why generally the FC is calling primary secondary and terciaries(sp). Gives ppl that either cant locate the primary some1 else to focus fire on. or ppl just dont listen and start just picking random ppl and have at it.
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Ridley Tree
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:45:00 -
[8]
A part of the 'tactics' problem is that a decent amount of lag can render all attempts at tactics utterly fruitless and just end up in yourself getting slaughtered because all your 'tactics' boiled down to nothing because of the lag and the other guy who brought more guns wins.
Small gangs are therefor more fun because tactics can work as lag is generally less. _______
Pirating 101: A Basic Course |
Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:49:00 -
[9]
generally tactics take into account the possiiity of lag
so get a on grid load spot
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Nikita Alterana
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:52:00 -
[10]
here are a couple other thoughts:
make it so titans don't instapop all ships smaller then a BS, so that you can actually use small ships in fleet battles.
Make it so weapons are LOS, so that it takes so skill to hit one thing with everyone. __________________________________________________ |
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Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana here are a couple other thoughts:
make it so titans don't instapop all ships smaller then a BS, so that you can actually use small ships in fleet battles.
Make it so weapons are LOS, so that it takes so skill to hit one thing with everyone.
how does Line of sight fix nething
also please dont bring a small ship like a firagte or something equally useless to a fleet fight your just causing every1 else lag and you should just go home
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:58:00 -
[12]
The problem is focused fire. All of EVE's problems can be traced back to that.
There's a stacking-nerf on most defence and offence mods, but there's abssolutely no form of stacking-nerf on applied damage. Hence, the fleet with most ships (or total DPS) wins most of the time.
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Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Sidewayzracer on 27/05/2008 05:01:03 i like the idea of focus firring but the result of it isnt always fun. rather difficult to change it without seriously hurtting something with the game.
Untill some1 comes up with a good idea as to how to fix it ill stick with leave focus firring alone.
PS akita do you work nights aswell?
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Nikita Alterana
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:02:00 -
[14]
LOS means that your ships can't focus fire because there is another ship blocking your view. Allows a slew of new things, hiding behind asteroids, using large ships as meat shields, fleet formations, etc. __________________________________________________ |
Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:05:00 -
[15]
the server load doesnt need extra "stuff" to waste its resources on so no
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Rhatar Khurin
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sidewayzracer
also please dont bring a small ship like a firagte or something equally useless to a fleet fight your just causing every1 else lag and you should just go home
You're an idiot if you dont think a frigate sized vessel is worthwhile in a fleet. Stop posting whilst drunk. _ EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
Originally by: Sidewayzracer
also please dont bring a small ship like a firagte or something equally useless to a fleet fight your just causing every1 else lag and you should just go home
You're an idiot if you dont think a frigate sized vessel is worthwhile in a fleet. Stop posting whilst drunk.
If someone xed up for a fleet with a rifter id tell him get something else or dont waste my time. Smaller gang fights the rifter has a use.
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Rhatar Khurin
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sidewayzracer
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
Originally by: Sidewayzracer
also please dont bring a small ship like a firagte or something equally useless to a fleet fight your just causing every1 else lag and you should just go home
You're an idiot if you dont think a frigate sized vessel is worthwhile in a fleet. Stop posting whilst drunk.
If someone xed up for a fleet with a rifter id tell him get something else or dont waste my time. Smaller gang fights the rifter has a use.
So fast frigs with target painters, webbers, tracking disruptors, numerous other EWAR stuff isnt worthwhile against a fleet of battleships? meh _ EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Sidewayzracer
Murder Training Facilites
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:25:00 -
[19]
thats the main issue with fleets is they bring every1 and there mother to the fight. tbh a battle badger decked out with ewar > then a t1 frig
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
Originally by: Sidewayzracer
also please dont bring a small ship like a firagte or something equally useless to a fleet fight your just causing every1 else lag and you should just go home
You're an idiot if you dont think a frigate sized vessel is worthwhile in a fleet. Stop posting whilst drunk.
/me onevolleys rifter
next please
and my only "fleet fight" was 10 or so idle against about 80 noob mercs and thats if that can even be called a fleet.
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RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.05.27 07:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 27/05/2008 07:39:20 Fly solo or with a wingman or two. You don't need anything else unless you like being a drone lemming in some FC's version of tank blob C&C.
It's your game...no one is forcing you to play powerpoint fleet battles for somone else's ego trip.
Alliance warfare=joke.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana One of the major things I've noticed in large fleet battles is the biggest blob always wins. There are no real tactics beyond moar guns=win. Th problem is primarying, big fleet battles come down to call primary, blow up ship, call primary, blow up ship, call primary blow up ship. I fleet battles we should have battleships going at it broadsides, with snipers blasting on from a distance while frigates and fighters zoom through the mess blowing blasting away at targets. So What prevents fleet battles from being like this? And How can we fix it?
So if BS broadside away at each other and sniper snipe away at other stuff and frigates zoom around and blast at stuff, what prevents the enemy fleet from focussing their fire on a single ship (calling primary)
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omglollolol
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T The problem is focused fire. All of EVE's problems can be traced back to that.
There's a stacking-nerf on most defence and offence mods, but there's abssolutely no form of stacking-nerf on applied damage. Hence, the fleet with most ships (or total DPS) wins most of the time.
Lulz, fleet with most ew wins, mkay? ____________________________ You may not share my intellect, which might explain your disrespect, for all I say ;p _________________ |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hanneshannes
Originally by: Nikita Alterana One of the major things I've noticed in large fleet battles is the biggest blob always wins. There are no real tactics beyond moar guns=win. Th problem is primarying, big fleet battles come down to call primary, blow up ship, call primary, blow up ship, call primary blow up ship. I fleet battles we should have battleships going at it broadsides, with snipers blasting on from a distance while frigates and fighters zoom through the mess blowing blasting away at targets. So What prevents fleet battles from being like this? And How can we fix it?
So if BS broadside away at each other and sniper snipe away at other stuff and frigates zoom around and blast at stuff, what prevents the enemy fleet from focussing their fire on a single ship (calling primary)
magic
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Sha4d13
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:20:00 -
[25]
The idea that the biggest fleet always wins is nonsensical. Numbers play a part- but so do many other factors.
I have jumped into a fleet twice our size many times- and come out on top.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:41:00 -
[26]
There's a few factors that can tip the balance in favor of a smaller fleet:
- Good target calling. A lot of FCs call the wrong primaries; by the time you've realised that half your fleet is jammed it's too late to call the ewar ships you should have called in the first place. By the time you've realised that faction BS is tanked and remote repped up the wazoo, it's too late, etc.
- Sure, focus your main damage dealers on single targets. But focussing all your firepower on one ship is kind of pointless if you have a bunch of frigs or cruisers that can't do much damage to a BS. Get those smaller ships focussed on things like ewar frigs and recons because they aren't going to help much in bringing down the primary.
- Have separate people calling DPS targets, jamming targets, and repping targets.
- If a scout (and you have scouts, right?) tells you that they have 2 falcons 200km off the main fleet, get smaller ships in there and take those out or scare them away before sending in the main fleet, which means you need...
- Proper warp-in points. Don't just warp the whole fleet to zero. BS need long and short-range ammo so you can warp them in at a distance and deal damage for a while before the enemy even gets to target you. A few seconds after your BS warp in at range, send a HIC right in the middle of them with a mega tank so their whole fleet can't just warp off.
- Don't just jump through a gate and into a fleet. Try and get them to come to you. It's much easier to position your ships and dictate the course of the fight if you are waiting for them.
Of course, remembering and excuting on all of this in the middle of a ****storm is the hard part. Not many corps can do it properly all of the time, but when you do find yourself in a fleet that's FC'd well, you'll be amazed what you can do...
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ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sha4d13 The idea that the biggest fleet always wins is nonsensical. Numbers play a part- but so do many other factors.
I have jumped into a fleet twice our size many times- and come out on top.
QFT. Good Tactics win fights. Lag loses fights.
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Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Akita T The problem is focused fire. All of EVE's problems can be traced back to that.
There's a stacking-nerf on most defence and offence mods, but there's abssolutely no form of stacking-nerf on applied damage. Hence, the fleet with most ships (or total DPS) wins most of the time.
Stacking nerf on applied damage is going to make fighters nothing more but heavy attack drones, and will also void the chance that a decent-sized sub-capital fleet can engage capitals.
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Flinx Evenstar
Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.27 09:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana One of the major things I've noticed in large fleet battles is the biggest blob always wins. There are no real tactics beyond moar guns=win. Th problem is primarying, big fleet battles come down to call primary, blow up ship, call primary, blow up ship, call primary blow up ship. I fleet battles we should have battleships going at it broadsides, with snipers blasting on from a distance while frigates and fighters zoom through the mess blowing blasting away at targets. So What prevents fleet battles from being like this? And How can we fix it?
Most of what you said is completely untrue. The tactics are putting your fleet in a position to inflict most damage, while avoiding being in a vulnerable position. Snipers do snipe, frigates do swarm.
The blob mentality is useless on its own, without any decent understanding of position on the field, this kind of thing happens
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Vasq
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.27 11:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana One of the major things I've noticed in large fleet battles is the biggest blob always wins. There are no real tactics beyond moar guns=win. Th problem is primarying, big fleet battles come down to call primary, blow up ship, call primary, blow up ship, call primary blow up ship. I fleet battles we should have battleships going at it broadsides, with snipers blasting on from a distance while frigates and fighters zoom through the mess blowing blasting away at targets. So What prevents fleet battles from being like this? And How can we fix it?
by far the worst thing about fleet battles is lag ... (if there was no lag, this would be the best game on the planet)
Smoke me a kipper, i'll be back for breakfast! |
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