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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.07 23:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I notice that over last several months, CCP put some effort into improving actual gameplay. But they completely ignored all the cyno mechanics stuff
Why is it still acceptable to have disposable Kestrels that can light a cyno and let unlimited number of ships jump thru instantly
Why is it still possible to jump thru cyno instantly when it lights up? even 15 second delay would be enough to bring some level of balanc
Why is there still no way to prevent cyno activation on tactical level? no short range cyno jammers, no module at all to prevent the enemy from lighting up and channeling a fleet instantly
Cyno travel is supposed to be more strategic than tactical. And like everything else in the game, it's supposed to have some counters other than a system wide jammer that can only be installed by defending alliance. I can understand if the players fail to see the flaw of this design. But why can't the devs see it? How can CCP still not see after years of the problem getting worse and worse Not asking for anything radical here, just some delay in jumping and some short range counter module. And maybe even up the cyno module requirements so Kestrels can't use them |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
366
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 23:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ephemeron wrote:I notice that over last several months, CCP put some effort into improving actual gameplay. But they completely ignored all the cyno mechanics stuff
Why is it still acceptable to have disposable Kestrels that can light a cyno and let unlimited number of ships jump thru instantly
Why is it still possible to jump thru cyno instantly when it lights up? even 15 second delay would be enough to bring some level of balanc
Why is there still no way to prevent cyno activation on tactical level? no short range cyno jammers, no module at all to prevent the enemy from lighting up and channeling a fleet instantly
Cyno travel is supposed to be more strategic than tactical. And like everything else in the game, it's supposed to have some counters other than a system wide jammer that can only be installed by defending alliance. I can understand if the players fail to see the flaw of this design. But why can't the devs see it? How can CCP still not see after years of the problem getting worse and worse Not asking for anything radical here, just some delay in jumping and some short range counter module. And maybe even up the cyno module requirements so Kestrels can't use them
I'd ask why is the above a problem?
I'm aware of a few issues...none of them listed in your post....and I keep hearing/seeing cyno ships get vaped and trust me...its a PITA when your on the other side of the damn cluster to get it replaced. ================ FloppieTheBanjoClown for CSM 7! |

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
633
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 00:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is actually among the most pressing issues in my agenda, I suggest you check it out, m8. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |

Kitt JT
Crimson Empire. Nulli Secunda
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 01:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
I completely agree. A 'spool up' timer on a cyno? 15 seconds would honestly be a good amount of time.
A bridge on top of a fleet would likely die.
A bridge off gird, but close (couple hundred thousand km) would give quick fleet (hacs?) just enough time to get there and pop it before ships start coming through.
A bridge a few AU out, would allow fast ceptors to get there, and have a small chance of popping a small ship.
A bridge many AU out already gives the fleet a lot of warning of incoming ships.
With a spool up timer, I don't think a small 'anti cyno' field is needed.
However, portable system wide one might not be bad-not sure to be honest.
I definately think it should be a little bit more dynamic though. Not many fleets fly around through gates any more :P |

Katalci
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
41
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Posted - 2012.03.08 02:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why would you think that any of this would be a good idea? |

entroncas
Catalina Operations and Logistics Division Supernova Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.08 13:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think someone got hotdropped by a cyno kestrel. |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1196
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 14:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think its worth a look into by CCP. Force projection is a big issue in EvE right now. This might help tone a bit of it down. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 22:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cynos placed on ships made of paper mach+¬ and prayers function quite well. The ship dies to a single volley from my Tornado, for example, and thanks to server latency only a fraction of the enemy fleet manages to enter system, to be brutally butchered.
I can't support any proposition that makes it more difficult for our enemies to get into a fight with us. |

Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
845
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 00:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Agreed except the cheapo ship thing.
Travel changes are in need of a much bigger overhaul than that, In fact I'd make it easier but also more risky.
A single ship like carrier/JF/Industrial command ships would be able to self jump without cyno at same distances than today but, here's the interesting thing, jump portal can't be re activated for 5min after jump and disrupt systems harmonics preventing any other jump capable ship to jump in to that system.
Fleets shouldn't be able to use this mechanic (the why harmonics crap stuff) and titan bridges should be completely removed. Caps/sc's/titans fleets would only be able to fleet jump if they have a cyno and a Black OPs to set the bridge, the fact of using a fleet cyno would remove the jump portal and system harmonics penalty (thus enemi fleet can jump in and spank your ass)
-Increase solo mobility for expensive capital ships would be good for the game. -Remove or make harder force projection by removing Titans bridge ability would sudenly give local small entities a much more important role, would bring Black Ops to fleets and make those and asset you must not loose if you commit your capital fleet in to a fight, Cyno capable Recons instead of Kestrels.
This is just an idea, nothing serious right? |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1273
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 04:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Look at all you babies crying.
Why is it fair to allow hundreds of sub cap ships to blob a gate and allow them all to jump in without some sort of traffic timer?
Why can massive sub cap blobs traverse mutiple systems in the space of a few minutes when they cry about capital jumping?
Why is it acceptable for sub caps to be built in hours when caps take weeks? If a Battleships can be built in 8 hours, caps should be built in less than 5 days.
Why is it acceptable for sub cap ships to require plain minerals to be produced and not have components like capital ships? Don't they have sub capital armor plates, sub capital propulsion engines and so on?
These are all questions that are on top of my priority list.
Personally, I say allow caps to jump without cynos to massive celestials. Remove cynos. Jump bridges will work the same way. No more precision dropping or jumping. |

CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
443
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 21:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Balancing caps / hotdropping is p simple.
Give all caps a base spool-up time for their jump drive, eg: Carrier/Dread: 5 seconds Supercarrier: 20 seconds Titan: 30 seconds
Then have different sizes of cynogen like guns (with appropriate fitting reqs) that modify the spool up time:
Small: 5x Med: 3x Large: 2x XL: 1x
Voila. Now small disposable cyno ships force a longer spool-up for jumps and aren't as useful for hotdrops. Instead someone trying to hotdrop needs to risk a larger ship to reduce the delay.
|

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
61
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 21:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think they should make it so rookie ships can not equip cyno's
it is way to easy to time a self destruct so the cyno is only up a few seconds. If this was not an exploit then why the 10 minute timer?
This would still be possible but not with a free ship.
all you need to put a cyno on a rookie ship is a aux power core. very low cost for a hot drop. |

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 23:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Look at all you babies crying.
Why is it fair to allow hundreds of sub cap ships to blob a gate and allow them all to jump in without some sort of traffic timer? The answer to that lies in the fact that their jump direction is entirely predictable and easily scoutable. With a little effort you can know how big the force is on the other side, you can even get 10 second warning when they all start jumping before they actually appear in the other system. With cyno, there is no way to effectively scout incoming force. Unless you get lucky or use spies, you don't know who's jumping it, where they coming from, and how many there are.
Asuka Solo wrote:Why can massive sub cap blobs traverse mutiple systems in the space of a few minutes when they cry about capital jumping? Smaller ships are supposed to travel faster than large ones. With cyno mechanics, the cap ships travel much faster than even interceptors. That isn't right.
Asuka Solo wrote:Why is it acceptable for sub caps to be built in hours when caps take weeks? If a Battleships can be built in 8 hours, caps should be built in less than 5 days.
Why is it acceptable for sub cap ships to require plain minerals to be produced and not have components like capital ships? Don't they have sub capital armor plates, sub capital propulsion engines and so on? That has nothing to do with cyno mechanics.
Asuka Solo wrote:Personally, I say allow caps to jump without cynos to massive celestials. Remove cynos. Jump bridges will work the same way. No more precision dropping or jumping. While that is an interesting idea, it's too radical to be considered as a "fix" and should be proposed separately
|

Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
70
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 09:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
I am just waiting for the AFK cloaking tears to show up.
Basically if you add a 15-30 second spool up time on jumping into a cyno then whenever you get hot dropped by a lone dude with s scram + web + cyno then there is s slight chance that you could pop him and live. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1281
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 06:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ephemeron wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Look at all you babies crying.
Why is it fair to allow hundreds of sub cap ships to blob a gate and allow them all to jump in without some sort of traffic timer? The answer to that lies in the fact that their jump direction is entirely predictable and easily scoutable. With a little effort you can know how big the force is on the other side, you can even get 10 second warning when they all start jumping before they actually appear in the other system. With cyno, there is no way to effectively scout incoming force. Unless you get lucky or use spies, you don't know who's jumping it, where they coming from, and how many there are. Asuka Solo wrote:Why can massive sub cap blobs traverse mutiple systems in the space of a few minutes when they cry about capital jumping? Smaller ships are supposed to travel faster than large ones. With cyno mechanics, the cap ships travel much faster than even interceptors. That isn't right. Asuka Solo wrote:Why is it acceptable for sub caps to be built in hours when caps take weeks? If a Battleships can be built in 8 hours, caps should be built in less than 5 days.
Why is it acceptable for sub cap ships to require plain minerals to be produced and not have components like capital ships? Don't they have sub capital armor plates, sub capital propulsion engines and so on? That has nothing to do with cyno mechanics. Asuka Solo wrote:Personally, I say allow caps to jump without cynos to massive celestials. Remove cynos. Jump bridges will work the same way. No more precision dropping or jumping. While that is an interesting idea, it's too radical to be considered as a "fix" and should be proposed separately
Eve is cold. Scouting enemy forces is for babies in empire. Real men run into fights blind.
Its called force projection. Working as intended. Bring a bigger gang or deal with it.
Your there for PvP to begin with... why would you need a warning that more PvP is coming your way? So you can run away?
Cap ships jumping massive distances is perfectly acceptable, simply because we take hours to align and warp and we can't jump by ourselves. We can't use gates, we can't really target you fast enough to be a threat even if we jump right on top of you. Infact, you probably have a full minute or more to gtfo if you get dropped. So I really dont see your problem.
You all enjoy telling hulk pilots to align if they dont want to get popped... maybe sub cap gangs need to stay aligned during a pvp fight so that the moment they see a cyno, they can warp off or get owned. |

Jalmari Huitsikko
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 10:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Katalci wrote:Why would you think that any of this would be a good idea?
because it actually is
cynos are currently one goddamn problem when you try to fly close range ships like gallente for example. or armor tanked ships.
and the instant hotdrop fleet/supercap whatever doesn't just feel right.
sure you have option to always fly kiting ships with falcons and so on gay setups but really, cynos are fine??? hahhah.
|

Bill Lane
Carebear Mafia
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 06:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:
Eve is cold. Scouting enemy forces is for babies in empire. Real men run into fights blind.
Its called force projection. Working as intended. Bring a bigger gang or deal with it.
Your there for PvP to begin with... why would you need a warning that more PvP is coming your way? So you can run away?
Cap ships jumping massive distances is perfectly acceptable, simply because we take hours to align and warp and we can't jump by ourselves. We can't use gates, we can't really target you fast enough to be a threat even if we jump right on top of you. Infact, you probably have a full minute or more to gtfo if you get dropped. So I really dont see your problem.
You all enjoy telling hulk pilots to align if they dont want to get popped... maybe sub cap gangs need to stay aligned during a pvp fight so that the moment they see a cyno, they can warp off or get owned.
Bingo. The PVP group of the game as a whole is the biggest group of whiners/crybabies in the game. Obviously not all of you, but a good majority. How about you keep your big mouths shut for once and practice what you preach? Like stated above, you like to tell the hulk pilots what they should be doing, but you are too stupid to do it? And then come to the forums and cry about how you got popped and think the game mechanics need to be changed?
You complainers/crybabies out there should probably just STFU unless you have a legitimate complaint/idea for fixing things.
Hell yes cap ships should hotdrop and travel large distances faster than the fleet, but it requires a "team" effort to get them there (even if it is an alt) since they need a cyno.
+1 to the idea of having caps be able to jump to celestials at the same distance as a cyno. I'd leave the cyno in-game though for more options. Lighting a cyno IS more risky, since you put up a beacon that says "LOOK HERE WE ARE!!!! \o/ RIGHT HERE! COME ON!"
I realize maybe the rant above was slightly unnecessary but I'm just tired of all the b****ing and complaining from people who can only think of one way to fix it: nerf the hell out of everything that they don't use because someone else has an advantage. Someone else will ALWAYS have an advantage someway or another, so deal with it.
Keep the ideas coming though, some neat things being tossed around. Keep it positive and let's move forward instead of falling backwards nerfing crap. Thanks
Oh and Ephemeron, the b****ing and complaining bit was not directed at you sir. Just seems to be everywhere. You bring up some good questions, and i like the idea of the jump drive spool timers and mobile cyno-jammers. |

Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 07:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
entroncas wrote:I think someone got hotdropped by a cyno kestrel.
Kestrel ? Dont be stupid, a cynonoobship enough there. So ridiculous this cyno mechanic. Insta travel, no risk for cynocharacter because not need clone, not need expensive ship just a noobship etc.
It's time to change this.
|

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1120
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 14:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:I completely agree. A 'spool up' timer on a cyno? 15 seconds would honestly be a good amount of time.
A bridge on top of a fleet would likely die.
A bridge off gird, but close (couple hundred thousand km) would give quick fleet (hacs?) just enough time to get there and pop it before ships start coming through.
A bridge a few AU out, would allow fast ceptors to get there, and have a small chance of popping a small ship.
A bridge many AU out already gives the fleet a lot of warning of incoming ships.
With a spool up timer, I don't think a small 'anti cyno' field is needed.
However, portable system wide one might not be bad-not sure to be honest.
I definately think it should be a little bit more dynamic though. Not many fleets fly around through gates any more :P
You look like you could be my long-lost brother 
This is a good rational argument for a short delay between lighting a cyno and being able to jump. Just those few seconds' delay make all the difference in the world tactically.
And for those who would complain about having to do it this way: adapt or die. Isn't that what you tell other people? It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1284
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 16:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jalmari Huitsikko wrote:Katalci wrote:Why would you think that any of this would be a good idea? because it actually is cynos are currently one goddamn problem when you try to fly close range ships like gallente for example. or armor tanked ships.
No cynos are not.
We should not suffer or even entertain the stupid idea of making sub caps safe from hot dropping by PvP hungry caps or bridge gangs!
If you want sub caps safe from hotdrops, move to high-sec. |

Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 23:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not need spool timer, but need travel time after cyno pop up.
Add after every one light year to 1 second to travel time. That's mean, the jump from 15 LY would be 15 sec time long. If the cyno ship popped, the fleet travel would be broken there where the fleet it's traveling. When they moving on a 10 LY route and their cynoship down at the 7th seconds, the travel would be broken at the 7th LY and the fleet would arrive just there where they are just during the travel.
15 sec enough time to managing the fleet travel if the cyno ship open a cyno at safepoint, because no one can landing there within 15 sec, but when someone open a cyno at the battle or dangerous position, need bigger ship than noobships or frigs for survive until their fleets do not arrives there.
Noobships open the cynos with pure clones that's unacceptable. |

Buzzy Warstl
Huron Syndicate
65
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 13:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:Not need spool timer, but need travel time after cyno pop up.
Add after every one light year to 1 second to travel time. That's mean, the jump from 15 LY would be 15 sec time long. If the cyno ship popped, the fleet travel would be broken there where the fleet it's traveling. When they moving on a 10 LY route and their cynoship down at the 7th seconds, the travel would be broken at the 7th LY and the fleet would arrive just there where they are just during the travel.
This would provide an intriguing method for making *very* deep safes, which I am lead to believe are considered "bad". |

Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 16:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:Tiger's Spirit wrote:Not need spool timer, but need travel time after cyno pop up.
Add after every one light year to 1 second to travel time. That's mean, the jump from 15 LY would be 15 sec time long. If the cyno ship popped, the fleet travel would be broken there where the fleet it's traveling. When they moving on a 10 LY route and their cynoship down at the 7th seconds, the travel would be broken at the 7th LY and the fleet would arrive just there where they are just during the travel.
This would provide an intriguing method for making *very* deep safes, which I am lead to believe are considered "bad".
Very deep safe for what ? Please tell me how can you kill a cyno which is open 8AU from you? 15 sec really enough for you to kill it the cyno ship? "Very deep safes" blabla Try it first.
1sec you need to realize to a cyno opened up in the system. You starting to warp there. With a fast tackler you need 1-2 sec align time, and you need to travel at least 10-15 sec. Try it. 2-3 sec need to leave the warp effect when you reach the cyno point, and you cant targeting under this sequence. When you leave the warp, do you need target the ship, if you are with a fast tackler (such as a inty) you need ~0.8 sec target time to frig. + You need to kill him. A kestrel need 2-3 shot with inty, that's 3-5sec minimum. Do you think about it, this is shorter time than 15 sec ? No way, and with a bigger ship the travel and align time is much longer. I bet you, you cant kill a cynoship under 15 sec if the cynoship open the cyno 5AUrange from you, because you cant travel there and kil him under 15 sec. |
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