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Veterans send n00bs into death

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Lifewire	Posted - 2004.05.05 07:51:00 - [1] In the last weeks, while more and more players join eve i have noticed that we kill a lot of n00bs in 0.0. Often they are angry and disapointed, asking a lot of questions like "why did u kill me, i am a n00b". Problem: pirates can¦t smell that a ship is commanded by a n00b. In the 2,5 seconds i have to stop a ship, i can¦t ask them so i open fire and ask later - the unwritten rule that made me become a veteran. The more i talked to these victims the more i found out, that alliances and veteran corps hire a lot of greenfolk and tell them to come to 0.0...this is much lower than toasting them! N00bs, if Alliances/Corps for example Norad or PA want you to go to 0.0 in your brand new Merlin, Stabber or Thorax - don¦t go. These alliances send you into death...
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.05 08:08:00 - [2] Somehow in this game it's the pirates that have gotten the bad reputation and are assumed to all immature, sneaky, ganky etc etc. In my experience these traits mostly belong to alliance people. Especially the immaturity one - I lost a Breacher yesterday to a new character's Blackbird (I orbited at 5 km, resulting in me being webbed, scrambled and torpedoed. Nothing out of the ordinary). Breacher - my pod safely warped away - and yet within six hours I had received four convoes from prominent NORAD directors and CEOs all boasting about how I got destroyed by one of their noobs. Let me reiterate: I lost a webbed Breacher to a torpedo. They boast about it. Yet I am the one being flamed on the forums and in local channels for being an immature player griefing others... Don't trust alliance folks! They have no honour (EVE politics shows this)! /Nightfang
Lifewire	Posted - 2004.05.05 08:15:00 - [3] Don¦t worry Nightfang...Norad suffers much more than a frigate.
meowcat	Posted - 2004.05.05 08:17:00 - [4] PAH!!!! Hurrumpf!!!! I scoff at your 0.0 scare tactics. Our newbie invasion forces will crush you underfoot... ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Lifewire	Posted - 2004.05.05 08:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Lifewire on 05/05/2004 08:22:26 Your frigate groups are funny - i talk of n00bs with their first cruisers, hired by an alliance that knows that the way to their territory is full of pirates.
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.05.05 08:53:00 - [6] I don't understand your logic on this post, you blame the veteran corp/alliance members for sending noobs into 0.0 that you then kill? Anyway, I can't see this as being any sort of issue to bring up. I mean a noob in 0.0 has what to lose? not a great deal if they have been sent by a corp. I am sure most will have backing so if they do lose a frigate or even a cruiser they have it replaced within no time. Secondly, why blame the veterans for sending them to an impending doom, when a noob has enough information to make a sound judgement on what the risks would be. To summerise, this sending of noobs to 0.0 to be cut down realy only has benifits to all involved. Noob;- learns hard and fast what a harsh place 0.0 can be and to be vigilant at all times. After a few trips there he will become proficient at avoiding heated encounters. Corp/alliance/veteran:- Will gain a noob who will have gained experience of high danger situations. Pirate:- Has something to play with, maybe only a little fish but is better than staring at the stars all night waiting for the big fish. ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Lifewire	Posted - 2004.05.05 09:25:00 - [7] Yes, blame these alliances. For example Norad loses ships every day on the way from empire to their territory - but what they do: order n00bs to do this deadly trip. What happens: we kill the n00b and he is frutrated for beeing toasted and podkilled. This has to be seen from our view: we can¦t know who is a n00b and who¦s not. Even a Ibis might haul high minerals or be a decoy/scout for a mineral transport, so we would even toast an Ibis. Alliance and corp leaders that send n00bs into these type of missions are the killers. It¦s well known that the pirate groups in EVE universe attack the alliance ships and convoys on the way from or to empire space and it¦s very low of alliance/corp leaders to send a n00b on this trip, while they themselves sit well defended in their main star systems and only leave it in groups of 20 ships or more.
Macumba	Posted - 2004.05.05 09:38:00 - [8] 0.0 alliances ate my hamster. "PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf
Sardau Kar	Posted - 2004.05.05 09:38:00 - [9] I usually just ignore people passing thru 0.0 as not everyone going thru unsecure space is a pirate or a ganker. I kill without asking tho if someone gets into alliance space,as I know that warning someone wont make **** if that guy is determinated to stay so a nice kill will sure make him go away in his pod (I dont pod unless its very personal).
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.05.05 09:44:00 - [10] This in my view is a sound tactic, why risk high when you can send in cannon fodder that can be easily replaced? But its besides the point, if the noob is that naive that he will follow blindly into situations he is not fully aware of, then thats thier own fault. Too many people worry about noobs in this game when realy I bet most of them are fine and have the balls to willingly accept missions that are high risk. Its you who are killing these noobs so how can you complain about it? Is it that you want to hit something of worth rather than just noobs in frigates and cruisers with basic mods? ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
pHASE 11	Posted - 2004.05.05 09:47:00 - [11] Just because someone occassionally camp the route how do you translate that into "do never travel from point A to point B"? According to your flawed logic no one should ever leave empire space because there exists the possibility that they might get ganked. The only noteworthy info here would be to dedicate more time to inform and help new recruits, but as Pychian Vanervi said, new players are bound to make some mistakes in the beginning and they'll learn fast. Nightfang: I've seen your corp members boast in local about earlier kills also so don't start the dung-flinging. I had the impression that you were one of the few honorable ppl who didn't indulge yourself in the forum-flaming, but guess I was wrong.
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.05 10:02:00 - [12] Originally by: pHASE 11 Nightfang: I've seen your corp members boast in local about earlier kills also so don't start the dung-flinging. I had the impression that you were one of the few honorable ppl who didn't indulge yourself in the forum-flaming, but guess I was wrong. I honor and respect those adversaries who treat me likewise, always giving people the benefit of the doubt. Yesterday, certain elements within your alliance (Black Nova not included, mind you) forfeit that respect for pure petty (see post above). I think you will agree on me with that one. Thus I stand by what I've written. And I also expect other people to do so, be it on the forums or by conversation with me. If certain unnamed people can't handle truths about their own actions revealed to the public I suggest they keep their opinions to themselves to begin with.
pHASE 11	Posted - 2004.05.05 11:06:00 - [13] Eve would be a better experience if we keep inmature discussions to a minimum. Let's try to provide a counterweight both inside and outside our corps as well as on and offline. (insert group hug here) As someone so truthfully said in another post today there will always be a certain % of any corp/alliance (some unnamed corps more ) which are inmature and ill-behaved. I try to stick with the corps/alliances where the % asshats is as low as possible. /emote avoids responding to Lifewires trolling intentions in this thread.
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.05 11:28:00 - [14] Edited by: Nightfang on 05/05/2004 11:30:29 Originally by: pHASE 11 Eve would be a better experience if we keep inmature discussions to a minimum. Let's try to provide a counterweight both inside and outside our corps as well as on and offline. (insert group hug here) As someone so truthfully said in another post today there will always be a certain % of any corp/alliance (some unnamed corps more ) which are inmature and ill-behaved. I try to stick with the corps/alliances where the % asshats is as low as possible. /emote avoids responding to Lifewires trolling intentions in this thread. Agreed with you on every account. We at TLBC try to keep smackers to a minimum as well, but with the heavy influx of new players we haven't yet got a just feeling for which players are high quality and which are not. We strive heavily to maintain a good reputation (if not fighting-wise then at least sportswise). Thus, if you experience that any of our members are heavily degrading this corp by actually destroying your game experience, please convo or mail me with your thoughts. /Nightfang
Lifewire	Posted - 2004.05.05 13:40:00 - [15] Anyway, alliances often send their n00bs into death, knowing that they can¦t make the way alive without some hints or escorts and i want n00bs to know that they shoulnd trust the "good guys"...they are not half so good as they want to be. Since we have a lot of n00bs in the game this has to be published. In all the battles TDG fought we also often encountered pirate-hunters, throwing n00bs in cruisers into hardcor-battles. A n00b should know, that a cruiser is the first target in a fleet battle because you can reduce the firepower of the enemy fleet fast if you first take out the cruisers. Why? For example a Caracal has about 60% of the firepower of a BS but only 30% of a BS hitpoints ==> Caracal is target no.1. Same with a Blackbird. It has nearly the ecm capabilities of a Raven but is much easier to take out. Or a Thorax: can carry more Drones than most BS but has only roundabout 3000 hitpoints. All in all cruisers are expendable cannon food and alliances use n00bs as cannon food. That¦s all i want to say after i talked to several n00bs we killed.
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.05.05 13:48:00 - [16] I have seen it about 6 or more times that a guy is put into a kestrel with heavy missles and told to fight anyone in sight.. 2 of those i escorted their pod back out of the region and adviced them a good corp. Some alliances indeed place newbs at the front, but our program (oc-u) teaches them all under supervision of more veteran members. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.05.05 13:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Macumba 0.0 alliances ate my hamster. It wasn't your hamster, you stole it!
Lizardo	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:03:00 - [18] Nightfang, you are a piece of crap griefer in my book. In another thread you claim you ask for toll to pass through before attacking anyone. THAT IS A DAMN LIE! and you know exactly what I am talking about. you are oh so solicitous of new players, and so horrified at the evil corps and alliance sending them into 0.0 but you can't even live up to your own word. You're a liar.
Ichabod Dirange	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:07:00 - [19] It makes sense in my book, alliances want their members to hate the pirates as much as they do and therefor send their noobs to die to build that resent.
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:07:00 - [20] Edited by: Ronyo Dae'Loki on 05/05/2004 14:09:05 The problem isn't bringing newbies out to 0.0. The problem is asking them to come out there and then not telling them what to expect. Before any of my newer players come out to Fountain, I warn them that: 1. Expect that sometime in the next few weeks you will probably lose your ship--especially while travelling. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. 2. Always watch local. Familiarize yourself with the names of various pirate corps and prominent pirates. 3. Realize that loosing your ship and being podded is really not a big deal it you're insured and have a clone. A few of them have been blown up on the way out, but it doesn't bother them: they either have themselves cloned at their destination, or they pick up and try again. **** happens, deal with it. Whining and sending evemails to your killers is stupid. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
Jade Nexia	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:11:00 - [21] It isnt alliance faulth. Every corporation is responsible for newbie pilot training. ANd of course best training ground is 0.0 space. Often is better make clone travel and give gear and ship in 0.0 HQ to newbie.
Mitchello	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Nightfang Somehow in this game it's the pirates that have gotten the bad reputation and are assumed to all immature, sneaky, ganky etc etc. /Nightfang um...becuase 90% of pirates are?
Lifewire	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:18:00 - [23] Edited by: Lifewire on 05/05/2004 14:23:25 Quote: The problem isn't bringing newbies out to 0.0. The problem is asking them to come out there and then not telling them what to expect. Before any of my newer players come out to Fountain, I warn them that: 1. Expect that sometime in the next few weeks you will probably lose your ship--especially while travelling. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. 2. Always watch local. Familiarize yourself with the names of various pirate corps and prominent pirates. 3. Realize that loosing your ship and being podded is really not a big deal it you're insured and have a clone. A few of them have been blown up on the way out, but it doesn't bother them: they either have themselves cloned at their destination, or they pick up and try again. Fact is: we didnt kill many FA n00bs. Seems to be true that FA cares for their n00bs. But other alliances like Norad or PA - they really send them directly into our warp scrambler range and be sure: we will kill n00bs because we often enought looted megacyte of n00b ship smugglers.
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:21:00 - [24] Edited by: Nightfang on 05/05/2004 14:35:50 Originally by: Lizardo Nightfang, you are a piece of crap griefer in my book. In another thread you claim you ask for toll to pass through before attacking anyone. THAT IS A DAMN LIE! and you know exactly what I am talking about. you are oh so solicitous of new players, and so horrified at the evil corps and alliance sending them into 0.0 but you can't even live up to your own word. You're a liar. Cute. Get over it pal... if you want to pay tell me so. And please point me to the thread where you claim I am promising you safe passage for a toll. (For the forum community record I just destroyed this guys Badgder and podded him) Edit: Besides, I never said that big alliances are evil. This ain't my thread. I said the alliances are usually as childish, if not MORE, as the pirate corporations. Your thread proves it. Thank you :)
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Macumba 0.0 alliances ate my hamster. ures to !! Centuria > whoot? Centuria > you stalking me? :) -- Nafri > then I a bird pooed on my head AND ON MY MEAL -- http://www.subroc.net/teddybears/
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:35:00 - [26] How about we get the views of a few noobs? I know if when I started I had the backing of a corp. I would have been more than happy to go and play in 0.0. No matter what ship and what skills, I would have learned PvP a lot quicker and had a whole lot of fun. So come on noobs let us hear what you feel on this mater. ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
pHASE 11	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:43:00 - [27] Edited by: pHASE 11 on 05/05/2004 14:46:48 Edited by: pHASE 11 on 05/05/2004 14:45:57 Quote: Cute. Get over it pal... if you want to pay tell me so. And please point me to the thread where you claim I am promising you safe passage for a toll. nightfangs old post Quote: We roam and we camp gates, and we try to toll whenever conditions allow for it. I guess these conditions you speak about were not met at this incident?
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.05 14:48:00 - [28] Edited by: Nightfang on 05/05/2004 14:52:16 I will quote myself: Should you want to surrender then announce this to the pirate, be it in local-channel, by EVE-mail or by convo. While doing that stop your ship dead in its tracks and disengage any modules you have running. I see no promise anywhere, just a statement that we will be willing to discuss toll if conditions are met. This pilot was dead silent in local channels and kept running for the gate. I had his pod locked and webbed for some time - without any sound from him. Thus he got podded. New characters as him don't pay anyways, seldom got implants. Thus: Subjects not complying with these simple rules are prone to get their ships and implants destroyed. Mercy is a trait which can only be taken advantage of, and every TLBC member knows this. Thus bargaining with your local pirate is not an option. And, let me quote myself again from the same thread a few lines down: Note that we reserve the right for our members to handle your case in any way they see fit, thus any complaints of having been podded in the middle of negotiations can be directed directly to our corporate trashcan. I guess I will be directing this at our corporate trashcan... I always stand by my word. The pilots who do get tolled and live seldom go to the forums with it though. Edit: Typo - wrote "pod" instead of "toll"
Lizardo	Posted - 2004.05.05 15:32:00 - [29] Yep. Pretty much makes my point. And you are a damned liar, Nightfang, no getting around it. You have no honor, no integrity, and I pity your parents to have raised such a scumbag. Your happy recruiting post, trying to put a good face on the essential destructiveness of what you do,as compared with your public behavior, shows exactly who and what you are. For the forum record: I was locked, blown away before I had a chance to stop, type or do anything much. So much for "old style" piracy. It isn't even the ship, which was inbound and carrying nothing of value; it was the pointless nature of the thing that angered me- firstly, no opportunity to do anything was offered. second, this ...person.... has a severe problem when it comes to matching their public claims. From this point on, I would suggest that anyone encountering any LBC NOT pay toll, since their leader is a liar.
Lizardo	Posted - 2004.05.05 15:36:00 - [30] also for the forum record...I expect to get ganked from time to time...and I have never complained about it until now. The only reason I am complaining is because of the divergence of this individual's public utterances and the way they perform in game.

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