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mumbled delbmum
Deep Horizons Travelers
X-Legio
0
   |
Posted - 2012.03.08 14:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, i've been doing some PI in low sec in the last weeks. I tried to optimize my 3 planets, 2 storm and 1 barren. In one of them i tried to start p2 production...but it was so slow that making just plasmoids was more profitable. Producing only plasmoid i've made aroung 7-8mil/day on a signle planet. And i'm not happy with that. P3 production is energy limited (i've command center upgrades IV).
How can i make my PI more profitable? There is a way to make some serious isks in lowsec? |
Snarf Aldes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 14:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't think there is any way to make serious isk with PI...
You can however make some relatively easy isk.
Creator of EvE Addicts marketdata site. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 14:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
You may seem to make more isk per day with plasmoids but you would get more isk per load making a P2 such as coolant on storm worlds. In low sec less trips in and out will drastically reduce tgistics and time needed. you lose a little isk per day but only need to haul one load a week from the planet drastically reducing the amount of time spent doing PI increasing your isk per hour.
Every Planet can make at least 1 P2 without any imports. in low sec on a good planet with level 4 skills you should still be able to extract enough with two extractors to feed 4 basic factories which will in-turn feed 2 advanced factories making your P2 for export.
Keep in mind that a basic factory need 6000 units per hour (3000 per 30 min cycle) to keep active. So each extractor needs enough heads to extract an average of 12000 units per hour to keep two basic factories running.
Basic factories produce half the needed material per cycle required by the advanced factory but run 30 minute cycles while advanced factories run 1 hour cycles.
What this means is you need one of each basic factory to produce the materials to feed one advanced factory.
With your example of a storm planet I would produce coolant as it is a POS fuel and in decent demand. you will run 2 extractor heads one pulling at least 12000 units per hour of ionic solutions and the other 12000 units per hour of aqueous liquids too feed two water factories and two electrolyte factories which in turn will feed two coolant advanced factories.
This is possible with level 4 skills I am doing it on several planets in high sec. If it can be done in high sec it can be done even easier in low sec. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
double post sorry. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
364
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
7-8 Mill/Day is actually rather high even for Low Sec. Consider yourself lucky.
Most efficient is to keep one planet as a dedicated factory Planet for all the P2 and above.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.08 17:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have two accounts, 3 characters per account.
Each character has 5 planets: 4 extracting/T1 processing and one T2 processing
I run my extractors on two day cycles, so I'm basically setting 15 planets worth of extractors per day. I use to do it with 10 planets on 3 day cycles, but I wanted to try it with a reduced time to increase my extraction rate.
I spend maybe an hour a day doing this, and once a week or so, I spend two hours moving everything around.
Money spent after 5 weeks: 300 million in construction and import/export costs.
Money made after 5 weeks: 1.2+ billion.
Total Profit: 900 million
Income per planet: 30 million
Income per day: 25.7 million per day
Income per hour (8 hours a week): 22.5 million
And that doesn't include the money I'll make when I pool my miscellaneous T1 materials together and turn them into T2s.
I.E. on one character I'm making mechanical parts and have a large amount of leftover Reactive Metals. On another character I'm making Construction Blocks, which leaves me with excess Toxic Metals. After a month, combine the lefovers for more Construction Blocks. |
mumbled delbmum
Deep Horizons Travelers
X-Legio
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 20:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
900millions every 5 weeks. 15 planets. It means 60million per planet every 5 weeks, doesn't it?
|
Maeste Madeveda
The Spawning Pool
Team Liquid
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 22:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wonder why people keeps running extractors. There are far more profitable setups of PI and it can rack up several hundred billions on 1 character. It requires low taxes and a rather big money investment (up to 25B for a 3 week cycle) but once you are set up, it's a ISK printing machine. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
372
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 02:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Good god people, move to low sec and find some low-tax POCOs. |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
20
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Posted - 2012.03.09 12:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Good god people, move to low sec and find some low-tax POCOs.
Better idea: if you cannot figure out a way to do PI profitably, stop doing it and do something else instead.
|
mumbled delbmum
Deep Horizons Travelers
X-Legio
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 13:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
Better idea: if you cannot figure out a way to do PI profitably, stop doing it and do something else instead.
This is senseless 
Maeste Madeveda wrote:I wonder why people keeps running extractors. There are far more profitable setups of PI and it can rack up several hundred millions on 1 character. It requires low taxes and a rather big money investment (up to 25B for a 3 week cycle) but once you are set up, it's a ISK printing machine.
so you are suggesting to buy raw materials and then use factory planet to refine them? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
366
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 13:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote:I have two accounts, 3 characters per account.
Each character has 5 planets: 4 extracting/T1 processing and one T2 processing
I run my extractors on two day cycles, so I'm basically setting 15 planets worth of extractors per day. I use to do it with 10 planets on 3 day cycles, but I wanted to try it with a reduced time to increase my extraction rate.
I spend maybe an hour a day doing this, and once a week or so, I spend two hours moving everything around.
Money spent after 5 weeks: 300 million in construction and import/export costs.
Money made after 5 weeks: 1.2+ billion.
Total Profit: 900 million
Income per planet: 60 million
Income per day: 25.7 million per day
Income per hour (8 hours a week): 22.5 million
And that doesn't include the money I'll make when I pool my miscellaneous T1 materials together and turn them into T2s.
I.E. on one character I'm making mechanical parts and have a large amount of leftover Reactive Metals. On another character I'm making Construction Blocks, which leaves me with excess Toxic Metals. After a month, combine the lefovers for more Construction Blocks.
I will vouch that these figures are correct.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
366
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 13:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Good god people, move to low sec and find some low-tax POCOs.
May as well look for the Holy Grail or the Jabberwocky.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 17:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
@mumbled delbmum How the heck do you get 7-8 mill per day with Plasmoids? Are you running on 12h programs 
@Maeste Madeveda Extracting is low workload and decent money. I get 250 mill/(h of work) if I'm lazy.
- How many hours do you spend on Market buying and selling the stuff?
- How long does it take to get all materials to your planets and back to a trade hub?
- Do you ever have problems buying materials or selling them?
- How much bigger is the risk of doing that?
Blog |-áTutorials | Youtube
"I donGÇÖt know everything, I just know what I know." |
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 17:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Taedrin wrote:Good god people, move to low sec and find some low-tax POCOs. May as well look for the Holy Grail or the Jabberwocky.
Or you could buy some POCOs and set up your own. Really... just buy some POCOs. |
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
21
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 00:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Generally speaking PI is one of the best passive ISK generation methods in the game and if you have access to low or null-sec stations, reasonable amounts of capital to invest and access to planets with low-tax POCO's you can make a damn fortune. Using JF's to bring goods to me from Jita and three characters with Interplanetary Consolidation and Command Center Upgrades IV I'm making the following off of three different characters on three different production schemes:
Scheme 1: 2,754,019,296.00 ISK/month
Scheme 2: 1,604,762,880.00 ISK/month
Scheme 3: 2,098,989,312.00 ISK/month
It's incredibly simple and requires about 30 minutes of your time per character every two days depending on how you have your networks configured on the planets in question. In the end it's like everything else in EVE. Look at the market, identify the resources you need, exploit a gap and make ISK. |
Iria Ahrens
Holy Arena
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 05:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
So you're making those amounts per character? or it is a rotating scheme you use all characters for, so the amount is divided among the characters?
|
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 05:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
@Iria Ahrens
He has 15 planets and can produce 3 different things at the same time. He is saying that he gets 6+ bill for the entire account.
Blog |-áTutorials | Youtube
"I donGÇÖt know everything, I just know what I know." |
Maeste Madeveda
The Spawning Pool
Team Liquid
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 11:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Invictra Atreides wrote:
@Maeste Madeveda Extracting is low workload and decent money. I get 250 mill/(h of work) if I'm lazy.
- How many hours do you spend on Market buying and selling the stuff?
- How long does it take to get all materials to your planets and back to a trade hub?
- Do you ever have problems buying materials or selling them?
- How much bigger is the risk of doing that?
- As much as I spend adjusting my sell orders for all kind of products.
- Less than one day with Black Frog (These guys are awesome)
- I don't have problem buying materials, sometimes selling can be tricky.
- I am doing that in low-sec so there are the inherent risks of low-sec but since TL mainbase is 1j away, I can always call for help should I find myself camped.
All in all, I could make the same figures as Joshua if I had the same starting capital and that's the limiting factor here for everyone wishing to start doing factory PI. |
Mechael
Team Pizza
Viro Mors Non Est
52
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 15:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nullsec/wormhole or bust.
I just use my one toon, and I'm producing roughly 100 units of p2 products per hour, around the clock. Takes 6 planets and max upgrades to get that much, though. Currently producing Synthetic Oil and Superconductors (because I'm too lazy to change the setup to something more profitable) I'm netting about 20mil/day (140mil/week.)
So really, unless you have a habit of regularly losing expensive assets, it should be more than enough to keep you fat and happy all on its own ... provided you have access to the good planets in null/wh space, or at least a sizeable starting investment and a POCO with a very low tax rate which you can just buy materials to feed into factories. Hard to do the latter in wormholes due to lack of freighter for all of that importing, even if it might be more profitable.
I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
745
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 05:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Maeste Madeveda wrote:I wonder why people keeps running extractors. There are far more profitable setups of PI and it can rack up several hundred millions on 1 character. It requires low taxes and a rather big money investment (up to 25B for a 3 week cycle) but once you are set up, it's a ISK printing machine.
- Unless you setup at a trade-hub, you can't reliably get the raw materials needed to keep a factory planet humming.
- Factory planets require capital, which new players don't have. Most players with less then 3 months in game still think that 1M ISK is a lot of ISK. Many of them are still struggling to put together 100-200M ISK to outfit their first battleship.
- Harvest worlds are cheap, easy, low-effort, pay off in 7-12 days, and have very little ongoing costs (export tariffs, moving the ECU around). For a new player without access to 10s of millions or a few hundred million ISK in capital, that's a major selling point.
|
Archare
SKEET ELITE
Sk33t Fl33t
70
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 05:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Also extracting in a WH can be easier than running a factory as there is less material that needs to be jumped in or out of the system... |
Twulf
The Konvergent League
Sanctuary Pact
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 16:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
I just playing around with PI last night in High Sec
New player with less then 2.4m SP
I currently have the following setup
Command center lvl 3
Scanning lvl 1
Storm Plan
1 Extractor unit with 2 heads - Suspended Plasm
1 small factory - Plasmoid
1 storage tank - for Suspended Plas
1 launch pad - storage for both Water adn Plasmoid
1 Extractor unit with 3 heads - Aqueous Liquid
1 small factory - Wat
1 storage tank - for Aqueous Liqui
I am running on 15 hour cycles.
I have a some extra of both Suspended Plasma and Aqueous Liquids left over in the storage tank
I will be setting up a complex for Electrolytes soon as I ca
I will be training commond center lv 4 so I can do T2 production of Superconductors and Coolent
I do have a question, it seems like even at lvl 4 of command center, I will not have enough to run a few T2 factories. I wanted to make both Superconductors and coolent on a single planet but not sure if I will be able to now. Can you build more then one command center on a planet
As I said, I am new, my setup may be wasteful but I am learning. Only way to learn is to do at least for me.
Not looking for a massive ISK marker, just some extra when I do not feel like running mission
So any help or advice would be great. Soon as I get the basics of PI down, I will move it to low sec or null sec but for now High sce only.
ISK for setup is not an issue for me as I have enough ISK for a newbie thanks to PLEX. |
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
Black Thorne Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 17:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
I am not sure I understand your setup, here is what I am thinking would be a setup to make what you are making:
E(3) --->LP<---->P(1) (suspended plasma to plasmoids )
E(3) --->LP<---->P(1) (aqueous liquids to water)
E = Extractor (number of heads)
LP = Launch Pad
P = Processor (number)
You list two storage silos, but I am not sure what their purpose would be on this planet. Your LP should be able to handle all the incoming material on a HS planet. One factor can handle 6,000 units per hour, which is probably way more than one ECU with 2 heads on a hi sec system produces. I have to admit, I do not run HS planets, so maybe on a 1 hour cycle or something you can get that much? Anyway, if you drop the silos, you can get three heads (instead of two) for each ECU. This should help keep your processors from starving quite as badly.
Storm planets are often quite small, so you might also try:
E(3)
|
|. . <---->P(1)
LP
|. . <---->P(1)
|
E(3)
With just one LP, you might then be able to get one or both extractors up to 4 heads OR just stay at three heads but have the ability to move your ECUs around w/o having to move your LP/Processors. |
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
Black Thorne Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 17:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Regarding your future plans - you will never want to extract more than two P0s from a single planet, regardless of CC level. With just two P0s, you will be able to make one P2. For your example, superconductors. You CAN change what P0s you are extracting when your first ones become depleted; so, if your super conductor production starts to fall off, you can switch to aqueous liquids and reactive gas and make coolant.
CC4 really just allows you few more heads and maybe some 'mobility' in allowing you to locate ECUs further from your LP. |
Kraig2
T.O.R.
Absolute Damage Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 17:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Snarf Aldes wrote:I don't think there is any way to make serious isk with PI...
You can however make some relatively easy isk.
Wormhole Space, player owned Custom Office.
People always say WS is the place to get ISK, they aren't lying. |
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
Black Thorne Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 18:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Everyone has their own definition of "Serious isk", so not sure what that means exactly.
In my w-space system, I used 5 planets to produce approximately 6,000 units of robotics last month. The average selling price was probably around 55k isk each, which would be about 330 mil isk. We have POCOs set at 5%, so 'taxes' were about 37 mil, but this all goes to the corp wallet and helps pay POS fuel costs, so there really is no negative to the tax rate.
My setup ran at about 70% theoretical max output (I could have made around 8,600 robotics), so scaling to 90% to assume you are more dedicated than me, you could make ~425 mil per month on 5 planets. I do have a sixth planet that is making POS fuel (sometimes coolant, sometimes O2) that would add to that bottom line some, possibly even enough to say that one full time toon can buy a PLEX.
Volume wise, you would have between 36k m3 and 52km3 per month, so that is pretty easy to handle. I do need to run to my extraction planets every few days and transfer material to the factory planet every 3 days or so (I can stretch it to four now with creative transfers and silos).
Remember to train your alts to basic PI and you will add to the isk. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League
Sanctuary Pact
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 18:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
KevLor I wrote:I am not sure I understand your setup, here is what I am thinking would be a setup to make what you are making:
E(3) --->LP<---->P(1) (suspended plasma to plasmoids )
E(3) --->LP<---->P(1) (aqueous liquids to water)
E = Extractor (number of heads)
LP = Launch Pad
P = Processor (number)
You list two storage silos, but I am not sure what their purpose would be on this planet. Your LP should be able to handle all the incoming material on a HS planet. One factor can handle 6,000 units per hour, which is probably way more than one ECU with 2 heads on a hi sec system produces. I have to admit, I do not run HS planets, so maybe on a 1 hour cycle or something you can get that much? Anyway, if you drop the silos, you can get three heads (instead of two) for each ECU. This should help keep your processors from starving quite as badly.
Storm planets are often quite small, so you might also try:
E(3)
|
|. . <---->P(1)
LP
|. . <---->P(1)
|
E(3)
With just one LP, you might then be able to get one or both extractors up to 4 heads OR just stay at three heads but have the ability to move your ECUs around w/o having to move your LP/Processors.
EDIT: In general, and especially on HS extraction planets, you will use a LP for all your storage needs. Silos can be useful in certain situations (mainly when you are not in the system and cannot import/export to the COs), but early in your PI career, assume that they are not needed. Route all P0 to the LP, then to the processors, then back to the LP.
EDIT2: I just noticed that CC Level 3 is Improved, not standard, so you should be able to get up to 5 heads per ECU, I think. It depends on link costs, but it should not be difficult if you ditch the silos.
Hmm. yea I was thinking I could setup both Superconductors and coolent on the same planet, this way I could jsut have a single planet for now until I want to get more indepth with PI. I was thinking that making two P1 outputs would not be hard with only 3 P0 inputs needed for them but I guess it will not work the way I had planned which is too bad.
I use the storage units because I figured I would fill up the LP quickly if I was dumping both P0 and P1 units in it.
The planet is one jump from my home station (missions and such).
I have left over suspended plasma at 15 hour cycles with one basic factory so I am not sure why I would need another head.
I have a little left over aqueous liquids with 3 heads and one basic factory. I see what your saying and I think I will try the LP setup with our storage for a bit and see how that goes. Trying to make it as automated as I can as combat is my primary focus for now. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League
Sanctuary Pact
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 18:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
KevLor I wrote:Regarding your future plans - you will never want to extract more than two P0s from a single planet, regardless of CC level. With just two P0s, you will be able to make one P2. For your example, superconductors. You CAN change what P0s you are extracting when your first ones become depleted; so, if your super conductor production starts to fall off, you can switch to aqueous liquids and reactive gas and make coolant.
CC4 really just allows you few more heads and maybe some 'mobility' in allowing you to locate ECUs further from your LP.
I am not sure I understand this. The reactive gas I need is not very close to my current ECU setup.
|
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
Black Thorne Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 19:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Your leftover P0 may disappear quickly when/if the planet depletes, which it may do under a pretty aggressive program cycle (15 hrs is relatively aggressive). For most people, either very short cycles (1 or 2 hours) or ~1 day increment cycles seem to be most popular. If you get online at the same time each day, set your cycle for 23 hours and restart every day when you get online. This may result in less 'excess' P0 for the same P1, and a tiny bit less depletion.
With an Improved CC (Level 3, if I am getting the naming right), you likely can set up to ECUs with 4 heads each, one LP, and 2 sets of 2 processors (4 total), and a single P2 processor. It will depend on the length of your links. It is unlikely that you can get 2xP2 processors on an Improved CC (unless your P0s are really close and it is a small planet), but you will probably be able to easily do it with and Advanced CC.
Quote:I am not sure I understand this. The reactive gas I need is not very close to my current ECU setup.
If your 'new' P0 materials are not close to your ECU, you may have to relocate it (which costs some isk, but not a ton). If you have excess grid, you can locate the ECU pretty far away and still link it to you LP. If you are really industrious, scan both the current and projected P0s while you are setting up and see if you can't find an ECU location that will cover them both. |
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