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Reticulan
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Posted - 2008.05.30 00:31:00 -
[1]
So over the last year or so many good threads have been created with ideas to improve lowsec.
Most if not all agree isk is the answer (I totally agree)
The best ideas i have heard so fair and these get mentioned a number of times are
1. Moving the medium ores (gniess, Oche and Spod) to lowsec.
2. Spawning the lowest level BS rats in lowsec (500k and 650K)
3. Ice to lowsec and 0.0 only (I don't like this idea, I think it was CCP wrangler who said they want to encourage people to go to lowsec not force them)
So I look at the first 2 things and figure hell yes these would get me to go to lowsec, I know i can beat a 500k double or triple BS spawn in a BC or above or a well fitted cruiser even (lub the Vexor) so 2-3 spawns and I have paid for the ship and will be in the profit zone I like the profit zone.
I look at a few threads and i see flames freak outs and general hysterics from the older player base and especially the 0.0 occupants.
This leads me to greed the players that have or like to have a 0.0 presense (I dont enjoy 0.0 myself) have access to these good rats/spawns which makes the risk v reward well worth it, and they dont want anyone else to be eating there pie.
So I have seen a couple of really good arguements for this and many bad arguments against, the one good/well thought out against argument was new players not been able to beat or tank a 500/650k BS to mine this nice ore.
So I have to sort of agree that a solo new player can't do this but this been an mmo not a mso 2-3 new guys will be pew pew enough (guess but makes sense to me).
So appart from the new guys having a touch of trouble solo and the 0.0 population not wanting to share can anyone tell me why there seems to be so much resistence to improving lowsec?
Also ore/rats seem like a nice isk boost might lower the price of noxium but hey the drone regions have ****** up everything ore wise anyway.
500k/650k rats are killable and will be a nice challenge/isk boost. Without going crazy on possible income via ratting.
Risk v reward go way up, hopefully improving population in lowsec.
Well flame away but please have a slightly open mind.
Retty
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Tawrich Tistrya
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:13:00 -
[2]
I seem to remember shooting at a shadow serpentis cruiser in low sec once that had a bounty of around 700k perhaps we should get an increase in these spawns.
 Quote:
TRINITY + PATCH = EPIC FAIL
QFT! |
Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.30 03:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 30/05/2008 03:08:08
In my experience there are plenty of people living in low-sec. They farm the level 4 missions in hubs like Irmalin (note to pirates: try Irmalin) and run moon mining POSes for ISK, but they band together using intel channels and have an unbeatable defense plan (codenamed "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT").
What's needed in lowsec isn't resources -- they're there! What's needed is action. Many a young player goes to lowsec looking to try PVP, roams for two hours, finds nothing, and quits. I think that FW will significantly improve the situation. There will be opportunities to get fights for FW participants as well as for civilians... incidentally this may draw the pirates away from low-sec mission hubs (e.g. Irmalin) and make those resources even safer.
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[insert signature here] |
Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.30 03:31:00 -
[4]
It's just not a sustainable PvP ecosystem out there. The predator/prey relationship doesn't pan out in EvE, because the predators (pirates) don't starve to death after they kill all the prey (carebears). They just go somewhere else, or shoot rats, or go to high-sec and run missions. I'd guess that fully 50% of the low-sec population (not counting bot haulers and station-dwelling alts) are guys in combat ships who wouldn't hesitate to go a-gankin' if a Covetor appeared on their directional scanner. I know I keep an eye out for targets whenever I'm traveling through a low-sec area, just as I keep an eye out for threats.
What we need is a way to curb that kind of behavior while encouraging profitable carebearing. Just beefing up the belts will lead to about a week of guys trying to mine the tasty ores before they realize that they're losing so many barges that they may as well just stick to Scordite in high-sec after all. Bigger rats will encourage more fighting-type ships to warp from belt to belt in low-sec, but all that does is help the pirates keep their sec status high and their wallets bulging while they troll for victims. Ice to low-sec would cause epic price hikes for POS fuel (I'm guessing a large proportion of the ice that gets mined is getting mined, not just in high-sec, but by macro-miners), thus devastating POS infrastructure, hiking moon mineral prices and trickling down to the T2 market, since it would cost more to run labs for invention and reactors alike.
I say put all kinds of ores in low-sec, even arkonor and mercoxit, but put them in small batches in gravimetric exploration sites, maybe even deadspace sites that prohibit MWD. When one belt is cleared, have another one spawn somewhere in that constellation, so there's no run on belts after DT.
Having to probe down the rocks means miners will be rewarded for working together more, and they'd be safe from the opportunists who just run the directional scanner as they travel from gate to gate. However, if you put in the effort and use probes to track the op down, or even just to find that same belt with grav probes, you'll have more opportunities to try to catch a miner. I like to think that some ransoming would go on, but it should be possible for a Covetor to pay for itself before getting owned in any event.
In the most extreme possible case, I'd suggest that barges and exhumers be upgraded so that their on-board scanners can detect gravimetric sites within 5AU, allowing them to find hidden belts about as efficiently as a CovOps can later find them.
I think we can all agree that flying a non-combat ship in low-sec space is the riskiest activity in EvE. Shouldn't it be among the most rewarding?
Crusades: Security Status |
Reticulan
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Posted - 2008.05.30 04:19:00 -
[5]
Thanks Reggie best comments i have ever heard on the subject.
Full value grav site is a very nice idea thats for sure.
no new rats? well i agree it would help the pirates to some degree the fact the current npc situation is so poor means none or very few ratters in lowsec, surely some isk value to ratting here would increase population of at the least offer a challenge to players wanting it.
Retty |
Commoner
Emergent Chaos
Bedlam Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 30/05/2008 03:08:08
In my experience there are plenty of people living in low-sec. They farm the level 4 missions in hubs like Irmalin (note to pirates: try Irmalin) and run moon mining POSes for ISK, but they band together using intel channels and have an unbeatable defense plan (codenamed "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT").
What's needed in lowsec isn't resources -- they're there! What's needed is action. Many a young player goes to lowsec looking to try PVP, roams for two hours, finds nothing, and quits. I think that FW will significantly improve the situation. There will be opportunities to get fights for FW participants as well as for civilians... incidentally this may draw the pirates away from low-sec mission hubs (e.g. Irmalin) and make those resources even safer.
This one goes both ways tbh :). When you really come down to it, what most agressive pirates want is to gank another person with minimal risk.
I somewhat agree to your other statement though!
The worst pvp'er in EVE :
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 30/05/2008 03:08:08
In my experience there are plenty of people living in low-sec. They farm the level 4 missions in hubs like Irmalin (note to pirates: try Irmalin) and run moon mining POSes for ISK, but they band together using intel channels and have an unbeatable defense plan (codenamed "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT").
While "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT" may sound good on paper and will keep you safe, the drawbacks nerf your isk earning potential below doing the same in a safe highsec environment while requiering more attention from the player.
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Nur Vadenn
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:24:00 -
[8]
After wandering low-sec for the last 6 months and reading a whole lot of the ôfix low-sec threadsö I would have to both agree and disagree with these suggestions. Low-sec could stand a bit of improvement. Overall I don't think that low-sec is particularly lacking in profitability though. Nor do I think adding more or better profits is going to entice more people to enter for the long term. The problem is not how much can be made, but rather how dangerous low-sec is. Any long term improvements will likely only be seen after a general reduction in the risks involved with low-sec.
More specifically I believe that the ores you mentioned are only marginally more profitable to mine than veldspar that can be found anywhere. Plus the nature of high-sec mining, being uninterrupted, means it is very easy to mine enough high-sec ore to pay for any low-sec minerals that might be regularly needed further cheapening their significance.
As for NPC ratting in low-sec. Low level battleship spawns would be a nice change, but you're again faced with a problem. Why would someone take the risk of ôsurprise PvPö in a potentially PvE fit ship when they could have NPCs delivered on demand by doing missions? With level 4 missions you get mid to high level battleship NPC's on demand in high sec with very little PvP risk to one's ship. That's not to mention mission rewards and payouts. Even pirates apparently do missions to pay the bills.
After watching a lot of what pirates and murderers seem to do and even seeing them in action in their natural environment I think the problem lies in that being the aggressor in an engagement in low-sec is, or has gotten very easy. With today's battleships and gear gate guns are trivial even for a single ship to tank while killing a target. They are even less effective if there is more than one camper on hand. The sensor systems built into our ships also seem rather antiquated, which attackers count on to surprise the uninitiated. Finally there seems to be a major gap in the abilities of combat ships when compared to industrial or mining vessels. Even T2 versions of these ships seem to be far behind the times in survivability and capability, and no amount of fitting wizardry seems able to resolve or even mask those deficiencies.
TL;DR version...
Lower the risks of operating in low-sec and you will likely see an improvement in the population of low-sec.
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The Lurker |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:45:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Even T2 versions of these ships seem to be far behind the times in survivability and capability, and no amount of fitting wizardry seems able to resolve or even mask those deficiencies.
the hulk can tank extremely well if you forgo mlu in the lows. that cuts your profit down about 20% though and mining is already less than missions. veld maxes out at 10-15m an hour. it takes hegdbrigite (spelling is bad) which is 0.0 if i remember right to beat it. I mine ark in 0.0 normally and wouldn't touch anything in lowsec. the saftey factor of mining in high sec is much much better and the isk is the same.
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Nur Vadenn
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: procurement specialist
Quote:
Even T2 versions of these ships seem to be far behind the times in survivability and capability, and no amount of fitting wizardry seems able to resolve or even mask those deficiencies.
the hulk can tank extremely well if you forgo mlu in the lows. that cuts your profit down about 20% though and mining is already less than missions...
When you say "can tank extremely well" I am wondering if you would be willing to elaborate? More specifically do you have a setup you're confident could tank a PvP fit ship for any usable length of time? Having never flown a Hulk I can only speculate, but based on the attributes I can't imagine it lasting very long under fire without maybe officer/deadspace equipment. Of course then how very cost effective could that be? I have read accounts of Hulks being very good to tank in a series of very predictable situations where you know the NPC damage type and perhaps even the incoming DPS to expect. Could that be what you're referring to?
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The Lurker |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:08:00 -
[11]
a small faction sb and rigs. costs about 200m+ on top of the other costs to fit the hulk. Extremely well is relative i suppose. Not saying pvp capable but they do tank triple 1.5m bs spawns if you are setup for them. trying to omni tank is much harder but doable with small spawns.
for the record i am a cheap ass and just rigged my with recharger rigs that last long enough to jump out of the belt and watch local.
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Nur Vadenn
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: procurement specialist
a small faction sb and rigs. costs about 200m+ on top of the other costs to fit the hulk. Extremely well is relative i suppose. Not saying pvp capable but they do tank triple 1.5m bs spawns if you are setup for them. trying to omni tank is much harder but doable with small spawns.
for the record i am a cheap ass and just rigged my with recharger rigs that last long enough to jump out of the belt and watch local.
That is what I thought, but I could have been missing something. So Hulks can tank NPC's well, but their PvP survivability is still questionable. To be fair since the original post was relating to low-sec I would think a PvP like omni-tank might be the goal for such a ship.
At any rate 200m + regular fittings (~100m?) + ship cost (~160m?) seems like an awful lot of investment to re-coupe before the inevitable ship loss that is likely coming for operating in low-sec isn't it?
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The Lurker |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:39:00 -
[13]
Edited by: procurement specialist on 30/05/2008 18:41:35
Quote:
At any rate 200m + regular fittings (~100m?) + ship cost (~160m?) seems like an awful lot of investment to re-coupe before the inevitable ship loss that is likely coming for operating in low-sec isn't it?
some go for up to 650m fitted but yes it is a lot. Mine would be about 160-180m max and that is no too hard to make back in 0.0 mining.
also there are so many mining fix threads including the sec status = quality of ore bands that it should get another topic by itself. you want more than just miners in low sec. but the higher quality agents in low sec instead of high sec, and fix low sec mining would do it. where ere teh carebears go the  will follow.
edit now with link http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=778505
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Anaalys Fluuterby
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:53:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 30/05/2008 21:54:34
No hulk ever fitted, at any cost, will survive to a PvP fitted ship. Not survive, not even long enough to warp out. Unless of course the pirate is completely inexperienced or a moron.
You aren't going to get the carebears into LowSec without a serious enticement. Nerfing HighSec won't work; they will just find something else to do. Nerf it too much and they will move on to other games. The problem with LowSec is 100% the danger involved. Every carebear KNOWS they won't last 1/2 hour in the belts in a mining barge on Saturday prime time. They KNOW that to get to quieter places they pass through pirate infested territory. They KNOW that between docking times to escape danger and travel times they make a lot more in HighSec in relative safety. They know this because they are told it constantly and when they try for themselves, they get ganked too.
Without a decent chance of survivability you won't see many mining barges in LowSec. Even Jihadswarm ganking 100s of Macks and Hulks didn't move them to the LowSec ice fields, they just found something else to do.
Come up with a plan so that experienced corps/alliances can effectively defend their barges and haulers and you will start seeing them again. Otherwise the only thing that will help is to nerf pirates severely.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Reticulan
Most if not all agree isk is the answer (I totally agree)
I think you go wrong right here. Even when they can afford to replace billions-worth of lost ships most Carebears will not go into LowSec. It has nothing to do with cost and everything to do with not enjoying getting blown up.
You don't understand the Carebear mind 
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.31 01:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 30/05/2008 03:08:08
In my experience there are plenty of people living in low-sec. They farm the level 4 missions in hubs like Irmalin (note to pirates: try Irmalin) and run moon mining POSes for ISK, but they band together using intel channels and have an unbeatable defense plan (codenamed "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT").
While "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT" may sound good on paper and will keep you safe, the drawbacks nerf your isk earning potential below doing the same in a safe highsec environment while requiering more attention from the player.
Esmenet, I was talking from experience. There are hubs in lowsec where two or three high-quality L4 mission agents will be found at the same station, and at many of these hubs you'll find an alliance of several dozen mission farmers who milk the missions for ISK 23 hours a day. These alliances do use intel channels, know about pirates when they are several jumps out, and when pirates come around they all dock up. If they can get 20-30 people together, they'll do a sort of carebear gatecamp (so they can say they're a "PVP" alliance).
On paper it looks like the pirate incursions will reduce their incomes a lot, but in reality the pirates soon learn that it's hard to get kills and the kills that they get don't offset occasional losses to gatecamping T1 Raven blobs.
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[insert signature here] |
Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.31 04:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Reggie Stoneloader on 31/05/2008 04:06:56
That's the truth. About a year ago, I was living in the Yahyerer neighborhood, and the 4 L4Q20 Amarr agents in that station had attracted an organized, dedicated batch of carebears that could make enough farming the missions to field a carrier-supported defense fleet on short notice and still stay in the black overall. Agents are money trees, and if a disciplined military force is willing to put forth the carebear hours to really earn their keep in such an environment, there's no lifestyle more rewarding in terms of isk and pew-pew. A steady stream of cash from the agents, combined with a steady stream of opportunistic pirates to blob, means you can keep well ahead of the curve and have a good time at it.
Crusades: Security Status |
Torn paperlin
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Posted - 2008.06.01 06:28:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Torn paperlin on 01/06/2008 06:28:19
If CPP give the Lone travailing Carebears a fair chance to get out of a gate camp then yes 0.4- will came back to life. The survivability's ratio is just too low to even attempt going into 0.4- at the moment,
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Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
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Posted - 2008.06.01 08:55:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Vanessa Vasquez on 01/06/2008 08:57:28
Me thinks profit is not the key. Even if your points were all implemented, i would not got in low sec on my own. 3 resaons why:
1) I would have to use a JC -> drawback on learning time
2) buying new clones, buying new ship equipment and ships, fitting them again and again ...
3) Semi AFK mining
My best proposal to solve this "problem" would be the local thing. With local settings changed to recent speakers only, but everybody visible in constellation, one would have greater chances in not getting detected. It would also help emire wars, as currently you know exactly when outnumbered and just stay docked when someone shows up in local.
Locater agents could get a new feature like a special "people in constellation". Of course the time has to be much quicker than the usual people finder, and would also be logical as the guy is allready in constellation. For 0.0, i don't know, but i might still be sufficient to have the ppl count in local and all visible in const. Maybe there would have to be some adjustment to non cov ops cloakers, respectivly their detection.
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Commoner
Emergent Chaos
Bedlam Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.01 09:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 30/05/2008 03:08:08
In my experience there are plenty of people living in low-sec. They farm the level 4 missions in hubs like Irmalin (note to pirates: try Irmalin) and run moon mining POSes for ISK, but they band together using intel channels and have an unbeatable defense plan (codenamed "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT").
While "OPERATION:DOCKUPANDWAIT" may sound good on paper and will keep you safe, the drawbacks nerf your isk earning potential below doing the same in a safe highsec environment while requiering more attention from the player.
Esmenet, I was talking from experience. There are hubs in lowsec where two or three high-quality L4 mission agents will be found at the same station, and at many of these hubs you'll find an alliance of several dozen mission farmers who milk the missions for ISK 23 hours a day. These alliances do use intel channels, know about pirates when they are several jumps out, and when pirates come around they all dock up. If they can get 20-30 people together, they'll do a sort of carebear gatecamp (so they can say they're a "PVP" alliance).
On paper it looks like the pirate incursions will reduce their incomes a lot, but in reality the pirates soon learn that it's hard to get kills and the kills that they get don't offset occasional losses to gatecamping T1 Raven blobs.
I'm one of those "farmers".
Generally you will find that pirates are no diffrent when it comes to farming. Pirates will only rarely engage on equal terms and so they are effectively looking for easy prey. We've been in this particular area for almost half a year and yes, we have a solid intel network.
You are quite right about the risks to pirates, even though we mainly are an industrial Alliance, you'll note that we almost have an 1-1 k/d ratio.
It's a teamwork effort, and it proves that it IS possible to live in lowsec, even if you're mildly carebear.
The worst pvp'er in EVE :
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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.01 14:37:00 -
[21]
I'm all for moving all ice to low-sec/0.0 simply because of the effects on the market. Moving battleship spawns to low-sec would be a dream for me as I try and fix my sec-status after killing random people.
Keep in mind even though running a POS would go up in price but so would the price of the product you produce so your "loss" may or may not be real depending on how much you hike up your product price.
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Put in space whales!
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Torn paperlin
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Posted - 2008.06.01 15:06:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Torn paperlin on 01/06/2008 15:15:48
Yes it possible to live in 0.0. once your settled in it quite cozy..sort of. The problem is traveling from system to system epically to empire. Some Fix And better travel conditions would be ideal to bring life back to 0.0. Maybe a a special JB that can be put in Empire and linked to one in 0.0, but can not take capital ships some thing like that.
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FlameGlow
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.01 15:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Torn paperlin
Edited by: Torn paperlin on 01/06/2008 06:28:19
If CPP give the Lone travailing Carebears a fair chance to get out of a gate camp then yes 0.4- will came back to life. The survivability's ratio is just too low to even attempt going into 0.4- at the moment,
CCP could do just that by boosting gate guns sufficiently in lowsec(so they could actually kill something), but they're too busy promoting inconsensual PVP  This btw is one of the things that made lowsec nearly uninhabited - heavy dictors and warpstab nerf come to mind. Another reason is mineral prices. Risc of lowsec raised, and rewards aren't much better then highsec -> no reason for most ppl to live in low as it is.
Moving all ice from highsec is nice too, at least there'll be less macroers
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Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.03 12:51:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 03/06/2008 12:56:19
Living in low-sec and going to (or having a minor presence in) low-sec are two different things.
I don't see most industrially minded players choosing to live in low-sec (with the exception of the aforementioned well-organised groups). It's just so much safer to produce goods and manage resources in high-sec. This doesn't mean not going to low-sec where some resources are abundant or only available, but it is less likely until larger and better organised.
I don't see a need to move much in the way of ores for industry - moon mining is a pretty big key to T2 production, and you just can't do that in high-sec. If you're going to become a big player in industry, you'll eventually need the services of a low-sec POS, yours or someone else's.
Mining is a tougher one - with paper-thin barges and providing security for said barges being hard and thoroughly dull, mining in low-sec en-masse just doesn't seem that attractive. Ninja-mining is doable but risky, purely for the crowd that already can cope with risk, both in mind-set and wallet.
Moving ores for them doesn't really change the landscape except for the worse. Miners who don't want the risk will just change to the cheaper ores (indeed veldspar is proving to remain quite profitable in comparison to other ores due to supply and demand) and the prices for the ores that you've moved will go up. This has two possible effects: supply increases as the reward becomes worth the risk, and then balances as people find they're getting shot at, or the market generally becomes more expensive due to shortages that people just aren't filling quickly enough. My bet is the latter will happen before the former kicks in.
That just leaves mission runner types, who can gain rewards from agents and belt rats. Improving belt spawns does seem like an idea, and level 5 missions are already getting a boost in the upcoming patch, so this might well help with a low-sec population.
Finally of course, who can forget Factional Warfare which may well cause a massive upsurge in low-sec population, due to all of the useful combat being there. Personally I'd wait and see what the above two changes do before changing low-sec further.
Edit: Gatecamps are of course the other popular reason why people don't go, but good luck trying to change that. If you don't get lynched by the pirates and spat on by the 0.0 players, both of whom depend on this sort of system for easy kills, you'll discover there is no easy solution that enables both a target-rich environment and safer travel. See this thread for one somewhat harder solution.
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"If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Eleana Tomelac
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.06.03 13:10:00 -
[25]
It is close to impossible to mine anything in lowsec, your barge will just get blown, ransomed, or something like that.
Some will say have a better escort...
Tried many times, always failed. The bigger escort you bring around the mining ships, the bigger gang you will drag to attack you, if you bring enough, you'll get a pile of carriers hotdropped on you. All that because when you are mining, you MUST be static, you have no choice.
So, while ratting in lowsec can be risky but will be profitable with better spawns, mining is just ridiculous.
Having much more grav sites is a good idea. This avoids most opportunists that will warp to all belts and gank the mining squad, they have plenty of time, a strip miner cycle or even worse, an ice harvester cycle lasts an eternity compared to a few warps.
Those sites would need to be more probing secured, avoiding that people find you with probes in a few seconds because you had your drone out. Let the pirates have the same job finding the grav site than you did, giving them a shortcut is too easy. And all the "don't use drones" is just plain stupid, this probing made easier by drones is plain stupid, at best a design flaw.
So, add BS rats and you'll see many people farming them in at least cruisers and running all around the belts playing cat and mouse with the pirates.
Add more secure hidden belts and you'll see miners into lowsec. If it works well, some ores can be totally removed from hisec, or present only in hisec grav sites. Don't forget to make those things big enough to mine so pirates have the time to scan the place and come before the miners have killed all the poor roids.
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Raven Timoshenko
Flying While Intoxicated
The Threshold
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Posted - 2008.06.03 13:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
In the most extreme possible case, I'd suggest that barges and exhumers be upgraded so that their on-board scanners can detect gravimetric sites within 5AU, allowing them to find hidden belts about as efficiently as a CovOps can later find them.
This is a great idea, IMO it will mean that more miners would be willing to risk low sec in the process, maybe allow for 99 AU lookup first though, just like multi spectral probes, except that this time its only for gravimetric.
War in EVE is like a box of chocolates. You never know which is the really nasty one with the horribly hard nougat center. |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.06.03 13:26:00 -
[27]
veld is the best ore to mine until you get to hedgbergite. and then for only 10% less you can stay in high sec instead of a .2 system. if you want miners in low sec they have to at least be able to make the same isk as in high sec. even if there were no possible way to gank my hulk in low sec I would still make more or barely less in pure high sec and stay there. I mine in 0.0 currently as ark is worth the difference in safety.
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Blancanieves
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Star Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.06.03 14:31:00 -
[28]
My opinion on the Ice issue:
There are different kinds of POSes, those in 0.0, those in Lowsec and those in Highsec. An easy fix to encourage people to mine Ice in Lowsec would be to make POSes consume different kinds of Ice for Highsec than in Lowsec/0.0. Highsec Ice would still be mineable in Highsec, but Lowsec/0.0 Ice would only be available in Lowsec/0.0. Then you wouldn't force anyone to go to Lowsec that wouldn't go there anyway. How about that?
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Eleana Tomelac
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.06.03 16:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Blancanieves
My opinion on the Ice issue:
There are different kinds of POSes, those in 0.0, those in Lowsec and those in Highsec. An easy fix to encourage people to mine Ice in Lowsec would be to make POSes consume different kinds of Ice for Highsec than in Lowsec/0.0. Highsec Ice would still be mineable in Highsec, but Lowsec/0.0 Ice would only be available in Lowsec/0.0. Then you wouldn't force anyone to go to Lowsec that wouldn't go there anyway. How about that?
Ice mining in an open field in lowsec is suicide...
While you may mine ice in 0.0 because there will be people only if there are some roaming gang or something like that, mining in lowsec is being exposed to pirates 100% of the time. You can't make any proper defence against people entering the system, there are no bubbles, you can't either make proper defence against people warping to the belt with some anchorable bubbles or anything like that to slowdown people trying to pop you.
Mining in 0.0 works because it's less populated. If the goal is to improve lowsec population and then have people mine, it will just be impossible.
Have you ever ice mined in a lowsec belt?
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Blancanieves
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Star Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.06.04 15:14:00 -
[30]
But imagine what would happen if you could fuel lowsec-POSes ONLY with lowsec ice? Either lowsec POSes would vanish or the ice would become more expensive and it could become profitable to mine ice in lowsec.
But I have to agree, lowsec is probably more dangerous than 0.0 while at the same time less rewarding. Which probably also applies to POSes which might lead to the first of the above alternatives happening. All in all a bad thing.
I like the idea with the lowest BS rats spawning in lowsec the most. You could very well ninja rat in lowsec which can be less dangerous than in 0.0. I remember when I got into the game I liked lowsec ratting a lot more than mission running to make my money, despite the occasional gank that cost me a cruiser or even BC. I would have loved to see a BS spawn every now and then.
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