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SirxAmoc
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:57:00 -
[1]
BRUCE died not because of the great tactical genius of GOONSWARM, not because of the sheer might of BOB, or the cunning of Pandemic Legion. BRUCE fell from within and imploded. That seems to be the problem today with modern man, too often he wants to be the center of the drama and make claims for the end result. The number 3 Alliance in EVE with a 3000 man roster was not taken down by any one alliance or a combination.
When I first joined BRUCE I was truly impressed at the way the alliance worked together. As I recall anything that roamed into BRUCE space died quickly. If you were to look at the kill boards around the first of the year till about mid March you would see that most kills were made outside BRUCE space because we had to export our hunting for kills.
NOPE sorry for those that feel they have to take credit for something they had very little help in doing. BRUCE died because the nucleus of BRUCE got tired, disenchanted, and basically decided they wanted something else from the game. The problem that lies with that course of action is a lot of players who believed in the BRUCE thinking paid the price for others. People join because they beleive in the cause, the leader, or they have something to gain. Bruce at one time had all the elements, they believed in Frieds philosphy and fairness, they believed they were against the right foes, and ISK could be made in Fountain. But the glue that held BRUCE together disolved when Fried and his close circle decided they wanted to leave BRUCE. Did they leave because we were starting to face more resistance and encursions into BRUCE space, did they leave because they truly were bored, or did they just want to do something different, I don't know and neither do the chest beaters claiming victory do either. In my opinion, BRUCE would still be in place and giving as good as it got if FRIED would have stepped down when things were more stable. To allow BRUCE to adapt to the change in leadership and then FOOM could have left would have been better. But that is not what happened. Info was leaked about FOOM and Fried's departure and then to quell problems we the masses were told after the fact. The departure of FOOM was quick and soon after internal problems arose that spelled the death rattle for BRUCE. The center could not hold the mass together.
Lessons learned:
If your joining an alliance always remember your Corp is what you will have in the end. Always know what your corps end game is if they have to leave.
If you see that an alliance leadership is stuck in a certain mode of doing something and not wanting to adapt start asking questions or be prepared for the worse.
Metagaming is part of EVE get used to it. I have since made 2 alts that are in BOB and GOONSWARM. I look forward to their chaos they will bring.
For the new owners of Fountain, once you have taken all of of Fountain, control these 3 systems you will never have to worry. Y-2ANO, 4-EP12, and D4KU-5, when you setup require your corps and players to base in those systems. Bubble the incoming gates and require all corps to have a 1/3 of their Corps on guard duty. Sucks I know, but I guarantee a leader strong enough to hold this will succeed! Once you have your SOV you can make jump bridges to anywhere else in Fountain. BRUCE did not try this and since they are no longer can't say it would not have worked!
Finally, I am done with large alliances for a while. I have more fun with smaller corps that work together on a regular basis and you get to know them. Before I will ever join another alliance I will be looking for one thing, does it rely on one person, if the answer is yes, I am not joining it. Any leader that sets up a organization that is afraid to allow others to help lead or take over if needed is an alliance I want nothing to do with.
POSTSCRIPT: To flamers, I leave shortly for IRAQ for 15 months, will try and respond when I can, so light your bics
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Inservio Letum
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:00:00 -
[2]
*yawn*
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:04:00 -
[3]
BRUCE would be alive and well right now had we not broken them.
Their democratic govt with hundreds of reps was completely incapable of making the proper decisions (or any decisions) in time of war. That is why they collapsed. However, without external pressure, the flaws in their democratic system would not have been exposed.
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SirxAmoc
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:10:00 -
[4]
Edited by: SirxAmoc on 30/05/2008 16:13:45
Ah I see we have one of the great thinkers of Goonswarm with very dep thought of opinion already first with his pearls of intellect.
Like I said chest beaters love to take claim for something they had no decisive hand in. Burn Eden was more of a problem than anyone. If PL wants to claim a piece of this victory, the only way I can faily say they had a hand in it is if you take the analogy of a animal dying of cancer and PL was their to help put it out of its misery, so I guess tey can brag on that!
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Brave LittleToaster
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:12:00 -
[5]
I went on holiday in IRAQ once, or was Iraq, I cannot remember.
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:14:00 -
[6]
Nah, Bruce are Smash level. Goonswarm found out that numbers aren't everything, Bruce never could work that out.
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:15:00 -
[7]
Also your MKIIIs were an abomination.
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Eltyron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:16:00 -
[8]
Yeah, we "get it"
* BRUCE didn't want Fountain anyway
* BRUCE leaders that burnt out/quit can now be blamed for everything
* BRUCE planned to go from 3600 members to below 1600 now
* POS warfare sucks, now BRUCE is free to kill everyone
For all the talk you do of 'us' chest beating, you guys sure are chest beating about how good BRUCE is/was.
Let your alliance die, who cares what people think. You will always believe BRUCE was mostly flawless, there's not much we can do to change your mind, that is pretty evident.
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:16:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Papa Ina
Also your MKIIIs were an abomination.
Actually, given the number of MKIIIs that seemed to shoot each other... maybe BRUCE did kill itself
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Shadoo
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:18:00 -
[10]
God, even I am tired of these endless BRUCE threads...
Can you not just die quietly already?
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Moctobot
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Papa Ina
Also your MKIIIs were an abomination.
fit tracking disruptors on your drakes
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Ernst Schafer
The Nakano Seafood Concern
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:23:00 -
[12]
1) Including RL obligations in a manner which appears designed to insulate yourself from in-game criticisms, is ... I'll use the word, "absurd".
2) The concept of Democracy is that decision making, and policy setting, can be handled through input from the masses as opposed to there being a single figurehead which does all of the decision making. It is hard to say that Democracy would have worked for BRUCE if only the leadership hadn't left, as the two concepts seem to be very contradictory.
3) Little bit of math to prove your defense strategy: 3,000 Pilot alliance, Check. Three key systems needing to be defended at all times, Check. One Third of the alliance on duty 100% of the time to defend those systems, Check. So... Assuming that every pilot plays for 8 hours, 7 days a week.. that would leave roughly 20 minutes each day to do anything other than be on duty (because of the 1 hour of DT).. Let's assume that you had an alliance of pilots who would be willing to live under such a situation - you now have roughly 300 pilots in each of the 3 systems, camping the gates to prevent anyone from getting in. Yes, I could see this as being pretty effective for ensuring that no enemies enter the system; let me know when you have it set up.
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Evil Pookie
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:25:00 -
[13]
It's me, I'm the one taking credit for the failure of BRUCE ITT 
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Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
Retribution.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:29:00 -
[14]
seems to be a pattern lately
Alliance -> no space -> lots of fun and killing --> alliance grows --> new challenge --> gains sov and space --> politics and boredom and carebear sets in --> alliance collapses
to be remembered
KOS
Triumvirate
BRUCE
MC
Destiny
Insurgency (not yet dead but nearly)
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SirxAmoc
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:32:00 -
[15]
Quote:
To flamers, I leave shortly for IRAQ for 15 months, will try and respond when I can, so light your bics
1) Including RL obligations in a manner which appears designed to insulate yourself from in-game criticisms, is ... I'll use the word, "absurd".
So were in your reasoning does it say I am insulating myself, I just stated a fact that I may not be able to respond as quickly, but will. So your statement is suspect.
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SirxAmoc
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:35:00 -
[16]
Quote:
to be remembered
KOS
Triumvirate
BRUCE
MC
Destiny
Insurgency (not yet dead but nearly)
Dont forget SPARTA or Elite Storm Armada
But you are right in your causality of decline.
Soon it will be BOB and Goonswarm
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Maroz Thrace
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
seems to be a pattern lately
Alliance -> no space -> lots of fun and killing --> alliance grows --> new challenge --> gains sov and space --> politics and boredom and carebear sets in --> alliance collapses
to be remembered
KOS
Triumvirate
BRUCE
MC
Destiny
Insurgency (not yet dead but nearly)
Who the hell are retribution alliance? |
Ernst Schafer
The Nakano Seafood Concern
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SirxAmoc
Quote:
To flamers, I leave shortly for IRAQ for 15 months, will try and respond when I can, so light your bics
1) Including RL obligations in a manner which appears designed to insulate yourself from in-game criticisms, is ... I'll use the word, "absurd".
So were in your reasoning does it say I am insulating myself, I just stated a fact that I may not be able to respond as quickly, but will. So your statement is suspect.
1) Good question, since I did not say that you were insulating yourself; only that it appeared that you were trying to - you failed, as far as I care.
2) Fact = you might not be able to respond as quickly, but will... ? which of course you responded about 1 minute after I responded - haven't landed in IRAQ yet?
3) So... My statement is suspect.... of.... what?
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Idaeus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.30 16:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maroz Thrace
Who the hell are retribution alliance?
An alliance that that particular gentleman is in. I can't quite say which corporation or alliance you are in sir, as you are not displaying your corporation or alliance ticker.
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Play Dead
Altruism.
Malice.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shadoo
God, even I am tired of these endless BRUCE threads...
Can you not just die quietly already?
/signed
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mazzilliu
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:10:00 -
[21]
posting to claim CAOD cred in the destruction of bruce
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slowboating
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:24:00 -
[22]
*Dies*
*Crys on CAOD about how he died and noone except them had anything to do with it*
Just shutup, please. |
Phrixus Zephyr
Prospero Incorperated
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:26:00 -
[23]
Its no mystery. Bruce was filled with hundreds of carebearing alliance hoppers that have jumped from one bloated alliance to another, caving in on themselves as soon as somebody so much as breathes on them.
Everytime one goes down, another alliance pops up and inflates to 2000+ and it'll happen again i should imagine.
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blue strigoy
elite armchair generals
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:31:00 -
[24]
In my opinion Foom left, because they realised the alliance was compromised by us, the mighty Goon black ops team, and many other spies. We knew really everything, what was going on. Nobody of the other spies in Bruce was so successful in infiltrating and destroying Bruce like our secret Goon Black ops team and PL. It was really a pleasure to massacre all these carebear lambs while we observed them with our blue Bruce alts.
The downfall of Bruce began already after/while the campaign against Reconing, though there was not much resistance from Reconing. This was work for Bruce, boring work. They were not used to it. Bruce lost all of a sudden a lot of active FCs. This was the opportunity we Goons were waiting for. Most likely Friedrich saw later no more chance to recruit FCs and leaders, he could trust. Indeed later the theft of alliance assets showed, Foom gave leadership in the wrong (right) hands. Of course the new leadership had never a real chance to take over. We took over. Bruce realised, they can not compete with us, especially not with their stupid fairplay attitude.
At the same time the membership imploded, because our Black ops team shut down every ratting and mining activity in Fountain while PL killed the big gangs. Since most players in Bruce are quite young, casual players and this was their main income source, more and more gave up. It was also really funny, how some of them tried again and again to go rat or mine in the systems, we had under control, while we had in other systems no presence. But it was not necessary, because these players did not get the idea to go somewhere else or use cloaks, teamwork and spy scouts like we do.
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Seldarine
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:37:00 -
[25]
If BRUCE had actually ever done anything of note then they might merrit these threads. But unfortunately they havnt/didnt.
All BRUCE ever did was move into an abandoned Fountain under the guise of helping the coaliton whilst bob were occupied and make isk for themselfs. The anti-bob crusade then cools down, people start pvping elsewhere against other targets, a few head to Fountain, BRUCE hits the panick and self-destruct button simultaneously.
Was kinda like watching a very condensed version of the BOB/ASCN war.
______________________________
Seldarine
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Mr Rive
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:40:00 -
[26]
its me, im the goon that killed bruce
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Zeitgueist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: SirxAmoc
ht in your causality of decline.
Soon it will be BOB and Goonswarm
Possible, but unlikely. Both alliances have been camped into a single constellation and bounced back at some point. Bruce and Tri, and other folded like a wet tissue when pressured.
Goonswarm will eventually implode under it's own drama. That has always been the fate of Goon corps.
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Shamsah Malik
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SirxAmoc
the great tactical genius of GOONSWARM
I read up util here, then figured the rest of your post would be BS as well and stopped.
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Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
Retribution.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Maroz Thrace
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
seems to be a pattern lately
Alliance -> no space -> lots of fun and killing --> alliance grows --> new challenge --> gains sov and space --> politics and boredom and carebear sets in --> alliance collapses
to be remembered
KOS
Triumvirate
BRUCE
MC
Destiny
Insurgency (not yet dead but nearly)
Who the hell are retribution alliance?
Ermm who the f*ck cares
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Ulric Denrai
Glass House
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:57:00 -
[30]
The end of Bruce started when we had a poll on the forums:
What do you like ?
A. a 1700 member alliance ,meaning all people that came frome syndicate.
B.a 2500 alliance.
C.Or a ever growing alliance.
I voted for A
Manas (tgrad) did vote for option.C
After that we got alot so called ,punks in Bruce.
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